Mark wrote:

You can search and edit files online using Github's
interface if needed, and there's a useful Kanban-style organizational
tool I've begun to use for projects.

Thanks, you've got me really interested!

Name of this Kanban tool? Is it part of Github itself?

It is part of Github itself. It's the "Projects" tab. You can create as many projects as you like and customize them to your liking. You can also filter the cards for each project in place.

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Mark wrote:
>You can search and edit files online using Github's
>interface if needed, and there's a useful Kanban-style organizational
>tool I've begun to use for projects.

Thanks, you've got me really interested!

Name of this Kanban tool? Is it part of Github itself?

Jon Polish wrote:
Does this mean that formatting in notes (tables, bullets, numbered
lists) will be improved or implemented?

It already supports bullet lists. There's a longstanding bug in an upstream library, (GTK Textview) that is blocking table support, indeed any formatting that requires more than a single vertical aligment per line. Numbered lists are on the someday list.

The move to GTK 3 will make a lot of things possible. We haven't yet explored whether we can work around the bug discussed above with GTK 3. Too busy getting a beta ready for release.

UV Outliner is one of the best that Windows has to offer http://www.uvoutliner.com/

I concur, especially with respect to exporting outline content for other uses. Though I still find tkOutline easier for creating and organizing content. I wish there were more single-pane options for Windows.

I bought this when it first appeared but, as far as I am aware, it hasn't been updated in 6 years.

There are a number of options.

1. InfoQube. Turn off the other panes. Instant single pane outliner. Even setup like this, IQ is VERY feature rich and versatile. For example, you can display columns with different information types.
2. Ultra Recall. With some ingenuity, you can create a layout that is a single pane outliner. While UR has the depth of IQ, you will not have access to it in the single pane layout.
3. NoteCase. A simple matter of resizing the tree. You might want to set up the tree to accommodate multiple lines. You can also display columns, though they are not easily printable.
4. MyInfo. There are three icons on the bottom right (in the status bar). Clicking on the right one will maximize the tree. MyInfo also has columns and these are easily printed.

I am sure there are more, but these come immediately to mind. My recommendation for this purpose (and many others) would be InfoQube.

RickFencer wrote:

I wish there were more single-pane options for Windows.

The ones I actively use are OmniOutliner 5 and Tree, which is unfortunately no longer sold. I used Circus Ponies Notebook extensively in the past, but it became unstable on recent version of macOS and is no longer sold or supported. I will check out the new Aquaminds release when it comes to see if it has anything like the Multidex.

Jon: Many thanks for those suggestions.

marlowe wrote:

The ones I actively use are OmniOutliner 5 and Tree, which is
unfortunately no longer sold.

Tree was unique and badly missed. The developer, Kazuhiro Kawana, dropped off the map.

In 2015 he increased the app's price from $10 to $12, then did nothing with and to the app after.

Site remains dead and the domain expires in 6 weeks. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I continue to use Ecco with the EccoExtension addon as my workhorse day to day outliner, with Bonsai for my daily outline because it syncs with my Android devices.

Eccoext works perfectly in both windows and Linux under Wine (Crossover) emulation. Very little that it can't do for me except perform an adequate paste of my finished outlines into Microsoft Word or other software.

I continue to play with Cherrytree, Notecase Pro, Rightnote, MyInfo, and even Treepad, because part of what I want to be able to do is to be able to publish some of my outlines as a two-pane web page with navigation outline on the left. For that purpose the two-pane outliners work best, but otherwise I like the single-pane outliners.

One of my great frustrations in my crimping is that I think Infoqube has the ability to do most of what Ecco does for me, it's in development, and it has better pasting into other programs. However try as I have I can't wade through all the features that are superfluous to outlining to get Infoqube set up in a way that I can understand. I keep looking for the magic bullet to do that but can't figure it out. Maybe at some point I'll start a thread on "how to set up Infoqube for outlining" (or maybe there's a way to set up a configuration file that can be shared among those of us who use it for outlining and not calendaring and the other stuff). I also am doing my best to convert to Linux, and I haven't been able to get infoqube to run there.

Anyway thanks very much for this forum and the ideas I pick up here.

cicerosc wrote:

One of my great frustrations in my crimping is that I think Infoqube has the ability to do most of what Ecco does for me, it's in development, and it has better pasting into other programs. However try as I have I can't wade through all the features that are superfluous to outlining

Hi cicerosc,

Can you share what feature is superfluous ? Looking at the Grid menu: display mode, context parents, styles, labels, sort, filter are all essential. Next, the Column menu has show / hide, alignment, wordwrap, color and sort commands. Finally, the Item menu has insert, move, expand / collapse, split, join, font, color, favorite, lock, hyperlink. Essential stuff, no ?

Just trying to help and understand

cicerosc wrote:

Maybe at some point I'll start a thread on "how to set up Infoqube for outlining"

Good idea, either here or on the IQ community forum

Pierre
IQ Designer

Pierre:

Thanks for your comment. So as not to overload this forum with detail that most would not be interested in, I typed a lengthy response on your forum here:

http://www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php?q=node/4176

Thanks again for your reply to my comment above.

Pierre, I just read your extended comments re IQ and can totally relate. Based on Jon's recommendation I downloaded the latest version of IQ with the hope of doing a plain single pane outline a la tkOutline or PC Outline. I have no Ecco experience and couldn't figure out how to even get started.

RickFencer wrote:

Pierre, I just read your extended comments re IQ and can totally relate.

(...)

I have no Ecco experience and couldn't figure out how to even get started.

Rick and cicerosc

Thanks to both of you. Your comments as "new" users is invaluable. Expect an improved new user experience in the next version including:
- Home Page not shown by default (think of it as Chrome's new page screen)
- Grids shown by default at the top of the screen, in tabs
- New Grid tab

Pierre

I echo these comments. Most everything about InfoQube is "non-essential" to me, and it seem a bit unfriendly to newcomers who - again like me - just want a simple single-pane outliner without all the bells and whistles. If there were some way to open InfoQube in a stripped-down, single-outliner mode, with all the other stuff hidden, I'd gladly use it.

I am very concerned about seeming overly critical about Infoqube because it is clear that Pierre has poured a lot of his life into it, and if he achieved his goals for himself then it is not for me to state that "my" goals are different from his.

It appears to me that Pierre sees Infoqube as one massive database within which to pour all his data and then manipulate it in as many ways as possible.

That is a very different goal than those of us who simply want a capable single-pane outliner with an advanced subset of Ecco-like features.

To me, the great unaccomplished potential of Infoqube in my outlining world is what MyInfo and Rightnote and similar programs lack - Both (1) A RICH TEXT single-pane outline (for example, on the left of the screen) combined with (2) a RICH TEXT long-form "word processor" type pane (for example on the right). Ecco always had rich-text single pane outlining, but it never had a viable long-form rich-text "notes" field, despite the efforts the EccoExt programmers, and other addons (MagicView?) to accomplish that. I see this combination as my "holy grail" of being able to write detailed rich-text outlines while combining each "node" in the outline with supporting text, graphics, links, spreadsheets, etc - all the data that support the point made in the particular outline mode. Yes I can do that to some extent on MyInfo, Rightnote, and the other dual-pane outliners, but their "outline" is nothing more than a primitive ASCII "task list" format that barely deserves the name of outline, (And in fairness, they call themselves "information managers" so their outlines are not really outlines at all, just hierarchical lists.

I personally can live with non-standard idiosyncrasies like calling the main working field a "GRID" rather than a "workspace" or some other user-friendly term (Does "grid" have a better ring in Canada, or is it a subliminal reference to "this is an SQL database and don't you dare try to make it into a word processor!" ;-) )

But what I personally am able to live with is one thing, vs factors that limit the program's usability to a much larger user base, which is a factor that rings a "caution" bell before investing too much time in a particular program.

Against all apparent odds Pierre has marched forward for **years** in building this program, and he deserves tremendous credit. And it is absolutely no demerit to Pierre if his everything-database concept is not our goal as outliners. But I note also that Pierre has constantly participated in this forum, and the Ecco forums, over the years, so it's also clear that outlining is of value to him.

That's why it's so frustrating -- the basic tools are there in Infoqube, and if they could just be refined and brought to the surface he'd have a real contender. He's probably already got the most CAPABLE outliner on the market - what he doesn't have is the most USABLE outliner.

That's why I've invested time in these comments and think that it would be helpful for others to do the same.

cicerosc wrote:

I am very concerned about seeming overly critical about Infoqube because it is clear that Pierre has poured a lot of his life into it, and if he achieved his goals for himself then it is not for me to state that "my" goals are different from his.

Hi cicerosc,

No need to worry. "All" user experience is important to me, so your comments are welcomed. Significant improvements in the next version, as shown here:
http://www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php?q=node/4176#comment-19745

HTH !

Pierre Paul Landry
IQ Designer

org-mode.
Hate Emacs, but org-mode has been too useful, especially tables (spreadsheet) and embedded columnview (convert all same-level item properties into a spreadsheet).
Effective for quoting & invoicing, when combined with a suitable pdf exporter. I use a custom python exporter to get clean monospace output.
Also OK for maintaining websites/documentation, but again with a custom python exporter.

Its weak as a database though; can't quickly link to an item property to display its value, EG:
can't type something like [joe:address] to display the value of address in joe's properties.
The calendar (agenda) is frustrating, though I hear many people love it.

So not a complete replacement for Brilliant Database, but faster for common tasks and works well with Linux.

When on Windows, I use Treepad.

Although I would encourage learning IQ (it really is that good), have you looked at AllMyNotes? It may satisfy your needs. And, it is a Windows program with installed and portable versions.

Jon

cicerosc wrote:

I am very concerned about seeming overly critical about Infoqube because
it is clear that Pierre has poured a lot of his life into it, and if he
achieved his goals for himself then it is not for me to state that "my"
goals are different from his.

It appears to me that Pierre sees Infoqube as one massive database
within which to pour all his data and then manipulate it in as many ways
as possible.

That is a very different goal than those of us who simply want a capable
single-pane outliner with an advanced subset of Ecco-like features.

To me, the great unaccomplished potential of Infoqube in my outlining
world is what MyInfo and Rightnote and similar programs lack - Both (1)
A RICH TEXT single-pane outline (for example, on the left of the screen)
combined with (2) a RICH TEXT long-form "word processor" type pane (for
example on the right). Ecco always had rich-text single pane outlining,
but it never had a viable long-form rich-text "notes" field, despite the
efforts the EccoExt programmers, and other addons (MagicView?) to
accomplish that. I see this combination as my "holy grail" of being
able to write detailed rich-text outlines while combining each "node" in
the outline with supporting text, graphics, links, spreadsheets, etc -
all the data that support the point made in the particular outline mode.
Yes I can do that to some extent on MyInfo, Rightnote, and the other
dual-pane outliners, but their "outline" is nothing more than a
primitive ASCII "task list" format that barely deserves the name of
outline, (And in fairness, they call themselves "information managers"
so their outlines are not really outlines at all, just hierarchical
lists.

I personally can live with non-standard idiosyncrasies like calling the
main working field a "GRID" rather than a "workspace" or some other
user-friendly term (Does "grid" have a better ring in Canada, or is it a
subliminal reference to "this is an SQL database and don't you dare try
to make it into a word processor!" ;-) )

But what I personally am able to live with is one thing, vs factors that
limit the program's usability to a much larger user base, which is a
factor that rings a "caution" bell before investing too much time in a
particular program.

Against all apparent odds Pierre has marched forward for **years** in
building this program, and he deserves tremendous credit. And it is
absolutely no demerit to Pierre if his everything-database concept is
not our goal as outliners. But I note also that Pierre has constantly
participated in this forum, and the Ecco forums, over the years, so it's
also clear that outlining is of value to him.

That's why it's so frustrating -- the basic tools are there in Infoqube,
and if they could just be refined and brought to the surface he'd have a
real contender. He's probably already got the most CAPABLE outliner on
the market - what he doesn't have is the most USABLE outliner.

That's why I've invested time in these comments and think that it would
be helpful for others to do the same.

Jon Polish wrote:

Although I would encourage learning IQ (it really is that good) (...)

cicerosc wrote:

(...)
Against all apparent odds Pierre has marched forward for **years** in building this program, and he deserves tremendous credit. (...)
He's probably already got the most CAPABLE outliner on the market - what he doesn't have is the most USABLE outliner.

Thanks to both you !

That does indeed describe it quite well ("Against all apparent odds Pierre has marched forward for **years**")... yeah... years...

But the destination is within reach now, especially with the just released v108 which brings many usability improvements, namely:

- New: "Welcome to InfoQube" command and IQBase: The Welcome IQBase is a system provided and managed IQBase designed to help users learn how to use InfoQube
- New: Workspace: New Tab button, to create new outlines or open existing ones
- New: Calendar: View and Edit Google Calendar Repeating events
- New: Grid: Add Column command: Button to create New Fields (on the fly, without going to the Field Properties dialog)
- New: Grid: Improved drag / drop (UI and speed). This makes IQ a viable option for Kanban-style information management (i.e. Trello-like)

With 32 new features (and nearly as many bug fixes) included in v108, it's time to update the documentation now...

Details here:
http://www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php?q=node/4145

Pierre Paul Landry
IQ Designer

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

On the other hand, I still think the best outliner remains Tinderbox. I
wrote about the reasons here:

https://welcometosherwood.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/outlining-with-tinderbox-6-6-2-to-be-precise/

And the app has only gotten more powerful in version 7. I don't use it
every day because it is only available for MacOS.

Steve Z.

I agree that from what I have seen and read in the documentation Tinderbox seems to be the best outliner around but I cannot use it because there is no Windows version. They keep saying they are working on a windows version but it never seems to get any closer to becoming a reality.

I do have a chronic case of CRIMP and so I have bought most of the available note taking programs. The two I actually use for day to day organisation are ConnectedText and MyInfo. It would be nice to have a go with Tinderbox for Windows.

My guess is that Tinderbox for Windows is currently on ice. The developer restructured a lot of the code a couple of years ago to make Windows development easier, but he doesn't appear to be focusing on that any more. There are now some plugins for Tiddlywiki that can handle some of what Tinderbox does, although the visual-oriented ones tend to slow down with any realistic number of notes. Queries and actions (like Tinderbox agents/edicts) are generally ok with larger numbers of notes in Tiddlywiki if you can figure out what to do, but I don't have any Tiddlywiki project with more than about 500 notes.

--Chris

Paul J. Miller wrote:

Stephen Zeoli wrote:
On the other hand, I still think the best outliner remains Tinderbox. I
>wrote about the reasons here:
>
>https://welcometosherwood.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/outlining-with-tinderbox-6-6-2-to-be-precise/
>
>And the app has only gotten more powerful in version 7. I don't use it
>every day because it is only available for MacOS.
>
>Steve Z.

I agree that from what I have seen and read in the documentation
Tinderbox seems to be the best outliner around but I cannot use it
because there is no Windows version. They keep saying they are working
on a windows version but it never seems to get any closer to becoming a
reality.

I do have a chronic case of CRIMP and so I have bought most of the
available note taking programs. The two I actually use for day to day
organisation are ConnectedText and MyInfo. It would be nice to have a
go with Tinderbox for Windows.

Jon Polish wrote:

Although I would encourage learning IQ (it really is that good), have
you looked at AllMyNotes? It may satisfy your needs. And, it is a
Windows program with installed and portable versions.

Hi Jon, I honestly am not sure if there's a touch of sarcasm in your response to user cicerosc?
AllMyNotes is about as far as you can get from IQ. From one extreme to another. AMN, in my opinion, has a user interface best suited for primary school children -- with its cutesy icons and colors.
I actually had a license for my 12 year-old and ran into problems with a licensing issue that was so petty on the part of the developer that it ruined it for me and my child. Again - IN MY OPINION - it's very childish in presentation and developer communication.