Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Does it still require syncing through its OmniPresence cloud service? If
so, I assume you find that works just fine...

Basically: Yes. You can also bring your own WebDav server, e.g. if you have a Synology or Qnap NAS.

If you're like me, and want a console-mode outliner but can't stand Emacs (I've given it several tries over the years), there's always Tines. I've not been doing a whole lot with the development lately, but a couple of community members sent patches to add autoconfig and some UI improvements; I plan to roll them up, make OPML the default file format, and release 2.0.

One of Tines's strengths is its support for "text" mode entries—combined with its Markdown export, you can outline your headings, scenes, and even snippets of dialog and description, then import the OPML into Scrivener and get on with the drafting. I like to think of it as a "writer's outliner." I'm thinking about ways to export to DITA (a technical writing XML format), but that will come later.

I tried to install tines on a couple of virtual Linux machines, but it failed. Do you have plans to package it as a .deb or .rpm? I liked where you're taking it.

Larry Kollar wrote:

If you're like me, and want a console-mode outliner but can't stand
Emacs (I've given it several tries over the years), there's always
Tines. I've not been doing a whole lot with the development lately, but
a couple of community members sent patches to add autoconfig and some UI
improvements; I plan to roll them up, make OPML the default file format,
and release 2.0.

One of Tines's strengths is its support for "text" mode
entries—combined with its Markdown export, you can outline your
headings, scenes, and even snippets of dialog and description, then
import the OPML into Scrivener and get on with the drafting. I like to
think of it as a "writer's outliner." I'm thinking about ways to export
to DITA (a technical writing XML format), but that will come later.

Just to put in my vote on this old thread, it's Infoqube.

Like many of us here I've spent a long time looking for the "Holy Grail" of outliners, and it seemed like it was never going to come along. To me it seems that Infoqube far exceeds anything else that is out there or has any likelihood of coming along.

Of course there is always the question of what is an outliner, and we could define it strictly or loosely. Strictly speaking it is focused on the arrangement of text items in parent / child relationships, with indentation levels to show those relationships. But there are many other ways to arrange and find information than that. Infoqube gives you many different options so you can do it "your way". Pierre is currently in the process of adding a hierarchical tagging system that will provide yet another method that will appeal to many.

One recent "discovery" I have made is, you are not wedded to any particular method! You can mix and match, and you can use one method as sort of a transition to another. For example, I might start out by entering notes in a semi-random outliner fashion. But later on I can add fields and values very easily and create a nice "spreadsheet" sort of view for a particular subset of data.

For those who say that Infoqube is "unfriendly" (and remember they said that about Ecco too) - I would say you don't try to grasp it all at once. Just get a grasp of the most basic principles and dive in. There are many features of IQ that after all these years I haven't touched, and am really not likely to.

I wonder if InfoQube would be seen as less "unfriendly" if there were an option for a "basic" interface, stripped of all the add-on stuff and with clear instructions on how to access that add-on stuff when and if the need for it arises.

I'd wager that most reasonably complex software would benefit from a "basic interface" option. I know there's a sales argument for giving users everything but the kitchen sink, but when you knock on someone's door for the first time, it usually isn't answered by every single member of the family.

jimspoon wrote:

Just to put in my vote on this old thread, it's Infoqube.

Like many of us here I've spent a long time looking for the "Holy Grail"
of outliners, and it seemed like it was never going to come along. To
me it seems that Infoqube far exceeds anything else that is out there or
has any likelihood of coming along.

Of course there is always the question of what is an outliner, and we
could define it strictly or loosely. Strictly speaking it is focused on
the arrangement of text items in parent / child relationships, with
indentation levels to show those relationships. But there are many
other ways to arrange and find information than that. Infoqube gives
you many different options so you can do it "your way". Pierre is
currently in the process of adding a hierarchical tagging system that
will provide yet another method that will appeal to many.

One recent "discovery" I have made is, you are not wedded to any
particular method! You can mix and match, and you can use one method as
sort of a transition to another. For example, I might start out by
entering notes in a semi-random outliner fashion. But later on I can
add fields and values very easily and create a nice "spreadsheet" sort
of view for a particular subset of data.

For those who say that Infoqube is "unfriendly" (and remember they said
that about Ecco too) - I would say you don't try to grasp it all at
once. Just get a grasp of the most basic principles and dive in. There
are many features of IQ that after all these years I haven't touched,
and am really not likely to.

tightbeam wrote:

I wonder if InfoQube would be seen as less "unfriendly" if there were an option for a "basic" interface, stripped of all the add-on stuff

I've been meaning to add "modes" (beginner, advanced, etc) but haven't got around to do it.

I know Paul J. Miller customized IQ UI extensively, perhaps he'd like to share it and I can include it in the standard distribution. Paul ?

Pierre

Marbux wrote:

Bernhard wrote:

>Notecase Pro is a very descent software. Unfortunately, even the last
>version for macOS (v4.3.4) is only 32-bit. So it wil not run anymore
>under future versions of macOS.

I'm informed by Miro that 64-bit macOS will be supported when the port
of the program to GTK 3 is complete (now in progress; I'm running a GTK
3 development build on Linux).

Six months later and there's no mention of imminent GTK3 support on Mac. :(

http://www.notecasepro.com/history.php

doablesoftware wrote:

on www.organizingcreativity.com/2018/02/what-makes-a-good-outliner/

someone says what are the main features that makes a good outliner

what's the best outliner you use? please include your main use that sets
the outliner apart from all the other software/outliners

Hi there, thanks for the link and the very interesting discussion I came accross today. My response might be a bit biased since I implemented my own outliner and use it as my main information management tool since. Before I used Ecco Pro (since its 16bit days), but needed something more powerful including cross-references and platform independence for the information management of large projects. You can find the tool on https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine It supports the "killer feature" from the referenced post at organizingcreativity.com and a couple of other features requested there. I actually followed the authors suggestion and imported "War and Peace" from the Gutenberg HTML edition into a repository; runs really smooth and keeps all title structure and formatting; you can download it from http://software.rochus-keller.info/WarAndPeace.cldb.zip or try to import yourself. I used the tool in really large government projects; one of my repositories includes every note and protocol and even some studies and specifications of an eight year project; everything is cross-linked and also accessible by full text search. I actually don't need columns because the tool supports active links with transclusion; so you cann e.g. create an outline with all references and include the navigatable abbreviations in the main text; the same applies to action items in a protocol which you can collect in another outline or section an track their status by repositioning and adding subitems. I will also look through the suggestions in this discussion and add posts if need be.

Best R.K.

I saw a couple of mentions of WhizFolders and took a look at it for the first time in many years. It's made a lot of progress, but it all seemed to happen a while back. Is WhizNotes actively still in development? (Another pet peeve of mine: release notes/change logs that are not dated. Hate it.)

Donovan wrote:

I saw a couple of mentions of WhizFolders and took a look at it for the
first time in many years. It's made a lot of progress, but it all seemed
to happen a while back. Is WhizNotes actively still in development?
(Another pet peeve of mine: release notes/change logs that are not
dated. Hate it.)

Anything undated on the 'net with relevance to contemporaneous context is evil. No argument there from me.

Writers Blocks was my first discovery in my path to enlightenment, followed by delight when I found WhizFolders.

The Pro version has significant advantage over the cheap (free, perhaps?) version, and I think the lesser version actually hurt his sales. The introductory level of WhizFolders is great, but my recollection from the time is that nobody else got my enthusiasm for the Pro version after they had seen the limited version.

I'm sure I'd still be using WhizFolders, primarily for outlining, but for two things. The developer took an extended break to pursue other projects, and I have moved on from Windows.

I can't remember the developer's name off hand, but he was responsive and friendly. He listened to suggestions and implemented one of mine.

If it's back in active development, I think I'll buy a fresh license so I can use it on my work computer, which is, sadly, Windows-based.

In fact, if WhizFolders is back in active development, I might just buy a license to encourage him, in case I find myself in a Windows environment, and as a salute to good times gone by.

For full disclosure, I rarely met anyone with my enthusiasm for the product. In my personal experience, it worked great.

I always felt it was a shame he could not keep it up, whiz has good tag/keyword functions he could develop much more. Hope he can pick it up again, nice guy.

Dang, that does look interesting! Do you happen to have a Mac executable?

Thanks ever so,
Bill

Rochus wrote:

Hi there, thanks for the link and the very interesting discussion I came
accross today. My response might be a bit biased since I implemented my
own outliner and use it as my main information management tool since.
Before I used Ecco Pro (since its 16bit days), but needed something more
powerful including cross-references and platform independence for the
information management of large projects. You can find the tool on
https://github.com/rochus-keller/CrossLine It supports the "killer
feature" from the referenced post at organizingcreativity.com and a
couple of other features requested there. I actually followed the
authors suggestion and imported "War and Peace" from the Gutenberg HTML
edition into a repository; runs really smooth and keeps all title
structure and formatting; you can download it from
http://software.rochus-keller.info/WarAndPeace.cldb.zip or try to import
yourself. I used the tool in really large government projects; one of my
repositories includes every note and protocol and even some studies and
specifications of an eight year project; everything is cross-linked and
also accessible by full text search. I actually don't need columns
because the tool supports active links with transclusion; so you cann
e.g. create an outline with all references and include the navigatable
abbreviations in the main text; the same applies to action items in a
protocol which you can collect in another outline or section an track
their status by repositioning and adding subitems. I will also look
through the suggestions in this discussion and add posts if need be.

Best R.K.

I agree. WhizFolders is quite good. I have corresponded with Sanjay recently about an outlining issue. As always, he was responsive and will look into a fix.

Jon

Amontillado wrote:

Donovan wrote:
I saw a couple of mentions of WhizFolders and took a look at it for the
>first time in many years. It's made a lot of progress, but it all
seemed
>to happen a while back. Is WhizNotes actively still in development?
>(Another pet peeve of mine: release notes/change logs that are not
>dated. Hate it.)

Anything undated on the 'net with relevance to contemporaneous context
is evil. No argument there from me.

Writers Blocks was my first discovery in my path to enlightenment,
followed by delight when I found WhizFolders.

The Pro version has significant advantage over the cheap (free,
perhaps?) version, and I think the lesser version actually hurt his
sales. The introductory level of WhizFolders is great, but my
recollection from the time is that nobody else got my enthusiasm for the
Pro version after they had seen the limited version.

I'm sure I'd still be using WhizFolders, primarily for outlining, but
for two things. The developer took an extended break to pursue other
projects, and I have moved on from Windows.

I can't remember the developer's name off hand, but he was responsive
and friendly. He listened to suggestions and implemented one of mine.

If it's back in active development, I think I'll buy a fresh license so
I can use it on my work computer, which is, sadly, Windows-based.

In fact, if WhizFolders is back in active development, I might just buy
a license to encourage him, in case I find myself in a Windows
environment, and as a salute to good times gone by.

For full disclosure, I rarely met anyone with my enthusiasm for the
product. In my personal experience, it worked great.

washere wrote:

I always felt it was a shame he could not keep it up, whiz has good
tag/keyword functions he could develop much more. Hope he can pick it up
again, nice guy.

Herein is an argument for subscription pricing, I guess. Revenue solves a lot of problems.

On the other hand, I see OmniFocus is rolling out their new web interface with a ten dollar monthly subscription fee - https://www.omnigroup.com/blog If I lose the option to just license OmniFocus outright, I'll use something else.

If I read the blog post correctly, I believe the subscription pricing is an option to the normal pricing. Fortune favors the prepared, though.

All low cost software is becoming a candidate for subscription pricing. Always keep alternatives in mind, and avoid becoming addicted to anything.

I dropped Ulysses when they started their subscription plan. I came back, but only because Ulysses syncs perfectly between MacOS and IOS. The only reason that matters is my iPad is better in a (parked) vehicle than my Macbook. If I decide not to write on my iPad, I don't really need Ulysses.

Or maybe I should just revert to my native habitat, Linux.

Dang, that does look interesting! Do you happen to have a Mac executable?

Thanks ever so,
Bill

I saw your question just now.

The easies way to run it on Mac is probably by installing Wine (https://www.winehq.org/ and using the Windows executable; I didn't test this with CrossLine yet, but it worked with other software of mine.

Technically it should also be possible to directly compile CrossLine for Mac, but that would cause some work.

Best
R.K.