UpNote added an right side info panel that includes a Table of Contents (shows all headers, 3 levels available.) Not quite outlining but a nice way to navigate longer documents.

https://medium.com/upnote/table-of-contents-741553fbd260

I have been using UpNote for a couple of weeks now and am really pleased with the interface and features. I like the tagging and bidirectional linking features.

I have dropped use of my other notes programs while I play with UpNote.

Dang, hadn’t spotted that one – works really well. Nice implementation, too (under other document info like created/modified dates and statistics, but all folding).

steveylang wrote:

UpNote added an right side info panel that includes a Table of Contents
(shows all headers, 3 levels available.) Not quite outlining but a nice
way to navigate longer documents.

https://medium.com/upnote/table-of-contents-741553fbd260

It’s worth pointing out that the new table of contents feature works particularly well with imported web pages (clipped using the UpNote Web Clipper extension).

It works very well for navigating larger documents for sure, better than I imagined.

I emailed and asked the dev to add ability to fold in the TOC, which he seemed to like and I imagine shouldn’t be too hard to implement.

He also said collapsible sections are still coming.

I have been trying out Craft and really liking it, the pages within pages model is really great (the way Craft formats is not only attractive but makes documents easy to navigate). But with these improvements I will most likely be staying with UpNote.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Dang, hadn’t spotted that one – works really well. Nice
implementation, too (under other document info like created/modified
dates and statistics, but all folding).

steveylang wrote:
UpNote added an right side info panel that includes a Table of Contents
>(shows all headers, 3 levels available.) Not quite outlining but a nice
>way to navigate longer documents.
>
>https://medium.com/upnote/table-of-contents-741553fbd260
>

Craft is wonderful, but as I’ve been using it more in anger, I’ve found there are limitations to the nesting approach, especially in terms of convenient overview. For laying out ideas, it’s much easier to use a folding tool. Once UpNote has incorporated folding, I suspect it’ll be my preferred drafting platform – it produces very nice PDFs already (although Craft is the go-to PDF generator if you want something with lots of links, sections etc.!). The TOC in UpNote has already made a huge difference to the ease of use; I was using it just yesterday to produce a big summary of a client meeting, and the things I found most valuable were:

- the ability to open multiple windows (so I had my rough notes in one, my “tidy” notes in the other, plus a bunch of references in a third)
- the table of contents
- the in-note search facility
- the excellent PDF export

What’s still a (minor) weakness is UpNote’s insistence on calling up the main window for operations (it’s been pointed out already as a less desirable aspect of the Menu Bar icon). If operations could be isolated to a note’s specific window, that would be cool. Having said that, it’s really only a very fussy point – overall, I found the experience extremely pleasant. UpNote with multiple windows, TOC *and folding* will be a very pleasant environment indeed.

If UpNote could also move paragraphs using a simple key combo, that would be splendid! Maybe it can… I’d better investigate ;-)

steveylang wrote:

It works very well for navigating larger documents for sure, better than
I imagined.

I emailed and asked the dev to add ability to fold in the TOC, which he
seemed to like and I imagine shouldn’t be too hard to implement.

He also said collapsible sections are still coming.

I have been trying out Craft and really liking it, the pages within
pages model is really great (the way Craft formats is not only
attractive but makes documents easy to navigate). But with these
improvements I will most likely be staying with UpNote.

MadaboutDana wrote:
Dang, hadn’t spotted that one – works really well. Nice
>implementation, too (under other document info like created/modified
>dates and statistics, but all folding).
>
>steveylang wrote:
>UpNote added an right side info panel that includes a Table of Contents
>>(shows all headers, 3 levels available.) Not quite outlining but a
nice
>>way to navigate longer documents.
>>
>>https://medium.com/upnote/table-of-contents-741553fbd260
>>

Also worth mentioning that UpNote has now put bidirectional links in the Info sidebar, à la Obsidian, which is a much better place for them (previously, they were in a dropdown menu).

So you can keep “Links to this note” in view at all times, if you so wish – very useful if you’re spreading a research project out over multiple notes.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Craft is wonderful, but as I’ve been using it more in anger,
I’ve found there are limitations to the nesting approach,
especially in terms of convenient overview. For laying out ideas,

That makes sense- folding allows you to expand and collapse, whereas in Craft a sub-page cannot be expanded within its master page.

In any case, I'm finding the TOC is really useful and a great interim for helping to manage and navigate larger notes.

it’s much easier to use a folding tool. Once UpNote has
incorporated folding, I suspect it’ll be my preferred drafting
platform – it produces very nice PDFs already (although Craft is
the go-to PDF generator if you want something with lots of links,
sections etc.!). The TOC in UpNote has already made a huge difference to
the ease of use; I was using it just yesterday to produce a big summary
of a client meeting, and the things I found most valuable were:

- the ability to open multiple windows (so I had my rough notes in one,
my “tidy” notes in the other, plus a bunch of references in
a third)
- the table of contents
- the in-note search facility
- the excellent PDF export

Somehow it's the overall package that has really added up for me too. The feature set is now pretty wide and mostly all very well-implemented, and is being expanded at a good pace.

If UpNote could also move paragraphs using a simple key combo, that
would be splendid! Maybe it can… I’d better investigate ;-)

I looked for that and didn't find a way- I think it would be very easy for the developer (Thomas) to add this.

On a related note, I had asked him to take a look at how drag-and-drop re-ordering of tasks is done in Apple Notes. But keyboard commands for general paragraph movement would be more versatile.

FWIW, I emailed the developer to say that a portable version would be useful, and he responded right away to say that a portable version is planned.

exatty95 wrote:

FWIW, I emailed the developer to say that a portable version would be
useful, and he responded right away to say that a portable version is
planned.

That's what I've been waiting for. I've been trying it out since the forum started and I like it a lot. Two things I've been needing before getting the lifetime sub is a portable version and having my data localized so I can have it on Portable stick with portable program for emergencies and not having access to the internet.

Thanks for the notice.

Have a good one,
Larry

I tested out UpNote a few months ago and it has become my daily notes tool, replacing OneNote. I did purchase the upgrade. I recommended it to one of my clients and she loves it as well.

I have found support to be very good.

Here is a review I did on UpNote if anyone wants to have a look.
https://youtu.be/J2SvZMx4z9Y

And a discussion of setting up a personal knowledge database using UpNote.
https://youtu.be/-6che0eRV3Q

Nice video overview. Thanks for sharing it.

I have one question: It sounds like notes are kept on the UpNote server for syncing. Do you have off line access to all your notes?

Thanks again!

Steve

Garland Coulson wrote:

I tested out UpNote a few months ago and it has become my daily notes
tool, replacing OneNote. I did purchase the upgrade. I recommended it to
one of my clients and she loves it as well.

I have found support to be very good.

Here is a review I did on UpNote if anyone wants to have a look.
https://youtu.be/J2SvZMx4z9Y

And a discussion of setting up a personal knowledge database using
UpNote.
https://youtu.be/-6che0eRV3Q

Never mind my question. I found the answer on the UpNote website... yes, you do have off line access to notes.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Nice video overview. Thanks for sharing it.

I have one question: It sounds like notes are kept on the UpNote server
for syncing. Do you have off line access to all your notes?

Thanks again!

Steve

Garland Coulson wrote:
I tested out UpNote a few months ago and it has become my daily notes
>tool, replacing OneNote. I did purchase the upgrade. I recommended it
to
>one of my clients and she loves it as well.
>
>I have found support to be very good.
>
>Here is a review I did on UpNote if anyone wants to have a look.
>https://youtu.be/J2SvZMx4z9Y

>
>And a discussion of setting up a personal knowledge database using
>UpNote.
>https://youtu.be/-6che0eRV3Q

It’s got a very nice web page clipper, too – one of the more reliable ones!

Cheers,
Bill

I ma very tempted to try it out. I decided on Zoho Notes after also looking at things like Notejoy, but while it works at a minimum, I do not like not having a side panel for navigation/organization. What I am unclear about is how often the lifetime pricing changes.

--Ken

I took a quick look at Zoho, it looks interesting and I like features such as grouping notes. But it seems odd to me that there is no list view available for notebooks or notes?

I gave Notejoy and Inkdrop an close look along with UpNote as they are all similar, but felt UpNote was the best for me. I was also lucky to get a good sale price on the lifetime premium membership, although now that I've stuck with UpNote for a few months I would have happily paid the full price (I think $30?)

I would love UpNote to incorporate the toggle formatting from Craft.do to enable outlining/folding, not much else about it that is lacking for my needs. I really liked Craft too, and might have chosen that if the subscription price was closer to say $20/year.

Ken wrote:

I ma very tempted to try it out. I decided on Zoho Notes after also
looking at things like Notejoy, but while it works at a minimum, I do
not like not having a side panel for navigation/organization. What I am
unclear about is how often the lifetime pricing changes.

--Ken

Thanks for the video links! Interesting. Looks like a light weight OneNote. I've been using OneNote since 1.0 (currently using version 16.29 for the Mac). I'm a huge fan of OneNote but not Microsoft. They can't seem to make up their mind on how/what OneNote should be. I've started using DEVONthink as a repository and OneNote as my day to day notebook. I would hate to leave OneNote but I'm getting fed up with MS.

Garland Coulson wrote:

I tested out UpNote a few months ago and it has become my daily notes
tool, replacing OneNote. I did purchase the upgrade. I recommended it to
one of my clients and she loves it as well.

I have found support to be very good.

Here is a review I did on UpNote if anyone wants to have a look.
https://youtu.be/J2SvZMx4z9Y

And a discussion of setting up a personal knowledge database using
UpNote.
https://youtu.be/-6che0eRV3Q

Quick question. I decided to install Upnote on my desktop Win10 PC. They do not offer the traditional d/l file so I can install the program myself, so I used the Windows store for the first time. What I cannot figure out is how I can either reinstall, and more importantly, uninstall the program. It does not appear in the Add/Remove Programs list in the Control Panel. Is this now all handled by the Store app, something I have avoided using since I migrated to Win 10 a few years ago?

--Ken

Based in Vietnam, with laws (tighter than china) forcing all companies to let their regime have all foreign cyber data for their intel files. Which they will index into files, just as any western data miner company does easily. In fact their laws were stricter than CCP and became even tougher recently. Any western Gov org employees should think before using companies based there for official work data, nor any company based in China.

Also think twice if your data is secret academia/industry, sensitive NGO (Viet regime's cyber force do hunt activists as ai complains). Or if you have compromising personal data etc. Their laws are even worse than Beijing's for gathering data on foreigners, in a particular way, since 2018.

Also Russia based companies which is democratically elected and has no such laws (to hand over all cyber law by their companies), should be avoided by gov org employees of NATO countries. Their cyber force is second only to USA, they do not need laws to get the data on westerners. Russia is also classified as adversarial to NATO countries and they invented compromising people into becoming agent "Kompromats" a century ago. It's possibly advisable not to use such territories' companies for personal data, if it is sensitive. It'll be indexed and filed, as these regimes say so openly themselves. That is the whole point and why they call these
Cyber "Security" (intel) laws.

Basically, specially for western democracies' gov org work data, you have to see where a company is based if they upload your data to their cloud. Then if it is an adversarial regime/elected gov, ask your superior at least. China is following vietnam in making it's infamous cyber law to have access to all digi data by any company within china even harder this fall, passing a further CCP Congress law on this.

I like this app, developer seems a nice guy.
I became a premium member of this app last year, for testing and features eval purposes. But for above reasons I do not use it for data.
Good luck to him.

washere wrote:

Based in Vietnam, with laws (tighter than china) forcing all companies
to let their regime have all foreign cyber data for their intel files.
Which they will index into files, just as any western data miner company
does easily. In fact their laws were stricter than CCP and became even
tougher recently.

Also think twice if your data is secret academia/industry, sensitive NGO
(Viet regime's cyber force do hunt activists as ai complains). Or if you
have compromising personal data etc. Their laws are even worse than
Beijing's for gathering data on foreigners, in a particular way, since
2018.

Are you claiming that any company headquarted in Vietnam would be required by the Vietnamese government to exfiltrate data of foreign users from US storage centers, including decrypting Firebase server data encrypted by Google? If so, can you provide any links to any of these stricter-than-Chinese laws that decree this? After all they claim that they "are using Firebase server located in the US to store the data. This service has been certified under major privacy and security standards and fully support EU General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR). Firebase encrypts your data in transit using HTTPS and encrypts your data at rest."

FYI they likewise assert that the company only "collects aggregated, anynomous [sic] user data regarding app usage. ... information in the crash log may include your device information, stack trace, your IP address and other data that can be helpful to debug the issue,"

satis wrote:

washere wrote:
> Based in Vietnam, with laws (tighter than china) forcing all companies
>to let their regime have all foreign cyber data for their intel files.
>Which they will index into files, just as any western data miner
company
>does easily. In fact their laws were stricter than CCP and became even
>tougher recently.
>
>Also think twice if your data is secret academia/industry, sensitive
NGO
>(Viet regime's cyber force do hunt activists as ai complains). Or if
you
>have compromising personal data etc. Their laws are even worse than
>Beijing's for gathering data on foreigners, in a particular way, since
>2018.

Are you claiming that any company headquarted in Vietnam would be
required by the Vietnamese government to exfiltrate data of foreign
users from US storage centers, including decrypting Firebase server data
encrypted by Google? If so, can you provide any links to any of these
stricter-than-Chinese laws that decree this? After all they claim that
they "are using Firebase server located in the US to store the data.
This service has been certified under major privacy and security
standards and fully support EU General Data Protection Regulation
(GDPR). Firebase encrypts your data in transit using HTTPS and encrypts
your data at rest."

FYI they likewise assert that the company only "collects aggregated,
anynomous [sic] user data regarding app usage. ... information in the
crash log may include your device information, stack trace, your IP
address and other data that can be helpful to debug the issue,"

For My Information?
Well I knew that last year, when i bought their Premium.

Now FYI there are 2 categories within your post (details follow):

a- Yes what i said is true, worse than Chinese Communist Party Congress Law.
And about to become worse. See links below.

b- You are making a lot of assumptions.
I will not, as i do not know.

1- Now, the 2018 Viet regime "Cyber Security" laws were big news.
Affecting human rights and accessing data of even silicon valley giants (social media) on Vietnamese (very noble repressed) people within Vietnam, to pass through their territory and the regime's control systems.
I remember articles regarding demonstrations, pickets etc. This was regarding foreign companies to flow the data through Vietnamese systems (DNS, servers etc).

I don't expect this journalist below to have a long career at the famous old SCMP since it is now owned by alibaba group which is under the thumb of CCP and a creeping purge has been going on for a year, this new article sums it up nicely:
https://www.scmp.com/comment/opinion/hong-kong/article/3149263/national-security-law-im-finally-getting-taste-life

One of hundreds of articles back then:
https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/vietnams-internet-control-following-in-chinas-footsteps/

2- As for local Vietnamese IT companies, they have to do that and are subject to more regulations.
Further, unlike the Chinese law, Vietnamese companies have to pass the data through Vietnam cyber systems for a specified amount of time.
How long for each company or each data (person, group, company etc), it is left open.
As long as the Cybersecurity law officials (intel agents) want to have it go through Vietnam.
The period this data remains and passes through their territory is up to them, however long they want.
That is the intel commissars in the Cybersecurity commissions. They are not checking for viruses, pal, for the benefit of westerners or Vietnamese people!

Local (Viet nationals') companies must meet much more stipulations, this includes channeling data through Vietnam and more, read:

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=4a57f816-37df-47df-8d4c-89077dd9ecf8

3- But the new draft decree will make the 2018 infamous law, even much worse:

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/a-closer-look-at-vietnams-hotly-debated-draft-decree-on-personal-data-protection/

And that is not all, the new proposed draft law is part of a much bigger package of laws:

https://www.globalcompliancenews.com/2021/09/09/vietnam-telecommunication-draft-decree-significant-proposed-amendments/

Now you are making certain assumptions:

4- The app coders do not see users' personal data. It is just point to point.
I do not make such an assumption because of some blurb. But you do.

5- The app does not send users' data except to US.
hence breaking their own regime's laws. Which is draconian to put it mildly.
I can not make such assumptions.

6- That one of the largest state-actors in Cyber Warfare, can not break the code.
I would not bet the farm on that.

7- Nor that there is a backdoor key.
I for sure would never bet on that.

8- That in such regimes (China, Vietnam, North Korea, Iran, Russia, Belarus etc) companies are the same as in the western democracies.
That is not true.
In fact these regimes work on the basis of oligarchies of regimes' networks of "Rent" system.
Most big and/or sensitive companies are within this large interconnected web of enterprises.
Most connected by association, family, relatives, business partners, due payers etc.
I can not say this company is within that net. I can not say it is not. But that is the dominant system in those countries.
These commercial ruling networks have close ties to security apparatus in those countries.
That is how things work in those countries.
Specially when it concerns data gathering, even if not part of this net, the commissars will come around for a chat!
That is how things work in those countries.
you will not hear about such chats in the blurb you uphold as divine decrees.

9- you assume this company is not a state (intel) data phishing company.
I can not say that, i presume that is what as you presume.
Otherwise you would not be driving people with sensitive western gov data towards them?

10- You assume Vietnamese companies who say their users' encrypted data in their systems and databases is not available to them, are telling the truth.
Whereas in fact that, another of your many assumptions, is not true yet again:

https://www.thedailystar.net/views/opinion/news/new-data-protection-act-the-way-time-reality-check-2171611

My advice to Western gov orgs' employees with sensitive data stands:
Ask your superiors before uploading data to systems by China, Vietnam, Russia etc.
Not because some guy on internet says their blurb (against their own harsh regime's laws!) is enough assurance.

in case the link in point 2 of my post above a couple of minutes ago does not open to you and is only for their registered members to read here it is:

Vietnam: Data Localization Requirements
Baker McKenzie
Vietnam August 16 2021

Data localization requirements in Vietnam are found in three legislations. Firstly, the Law on Cybersecurity 2018, Article 26.3 on ensuring information safety provides that “[Enterprises] providing services on telecommunication networks or the internet and value-added services in cyberspace in Vietnam must store such data [here] for a period specified by the government. Foreign enterprises under this scope must also establish a branch or a representative office in Vietnam.”

The scope of the above provision is broad and includes every provider of any service over cyberspace who processes personal data. There are no exceptions to this rule.

Secondly, Article 26 of the draft cybersecurity decree stipulates that only foreign providers of prescribed services (domain name service, e-commerce, online payment, social network and social communication) may be required to store data and set up a branch/representative office in Vietnam.

Additionally, that obligation only arises if the service has been used to violate the Law on Cybersecurity; such violation(s) has been notified to the service provider by the authority; and the service provider has not complied with such instructions.

In contrast to the Law on Cybersecurity’s preemptive approach, the cybersecurity decree takes a reactive one. Not all offshore service providers have the localization obligation, only those who have been notified of a breach and fail to comply do. Furthermore, while the Law on Cybersecurity imposes the localization obligation on all online service providers, under the cybersecurity decree, only foreign providers of listed services may have such an obligation.

Under Vietnamese law, should there be conflicting provisions, the law prevails, so it is interesting to see how the final version of the decree resolves this matter.

The last legislation relating to data localization is the draft personal data protection decree (PDPD). Under Article 21.1, an enterprise may only transfer data abroad if it meets all of the stipulated requirements, including storing the original data in Vietnam. However, should the exceptions in paragraph 3 apply, the enterprise is exempted from such requirements.

It is unclear whether only one or all four requirements under paragraph 3 must be satisfied for the enterprise to enjoy the exemption, and even so, whether the enterprise is relieved from all or just one of such obligations.

One can draw four remarks from this analysis. Firstly, although the cybersecurity decree, the Law on Cybersecurity and the PDPD all concern “personal data,” their approaches are significantly different. Secondly “storing of data” may be construed to include the storage in processing centers in Vietnam or the storage in third-party storage service providers’ systems. Last but not least, in Vietnam, with respect to certain business activities and especially novel ones, the law may be interpreted to permit only acts that are “approved,” “explicitly permitted,” or “licensed.”

In recent years, the government has attempted to follow global best practices in regulating data. One critical aspect of these new legislative attempts is Vietnam’s data localization requirements. The Law on Digital Transactions 2005 defines “data” as information in the form of symbols, scripts, numbers, images, sounds, or of other similar forms.

https://vir.com.vn/making-sense-of-requirements-in-dat

Content is provided for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended and should not be construed as legal advice. This may qualify as "Attorney Advertising" requiring notice in some jurisdictions. Prior results do not guarantee similar outcomes. For more information, please visit: www.bakermckenzie.com/en/disclaimers.

Baker McKenzie - Tran Manh Hung

On one hand you say you won’t make assumptions, yet you clearly have, or at least you leave yourself open to dark conspiracies about app/data backdoors.

*Data localization laws* do not require data for **users** outside those localities to be exfiltrated to those countries. They are laws requiring data for users in Vietnam to be hosted in Vietnam.

There is no law you have pointed to that shows that Vietnam, or China for that matter, can order encrypted data retained on US servers (managed by Google as a service) to be copied over to any other country.

Read Google’s privacy policy for Firebase backend-as-a-service, which is what UpNote is built on:

https://firebase.google.com/support/privacy

My 10 distinct areas of concern were evaded.
Not honest interaction.
Case closed.

As for anyone with sensitive data, since 2018, it's crystal clear:

Data localization requirements in Vietnam are found in three legislations. Firstly, the Law on Cybersecurity 2018, Article 26.3 on ensuring information safety provides that “[Enterprises] providing services on telecommunication networks or the internet and value-added services in cyberspace in Vietnam must store such data [here] for a period specified by the government.

+

About to be made much more stringent:

https://www.tilleke.com/insights/a-closer-look-at-vietnams-hotly-debated-draft-decree-on-personal-data-protection/

I do recommend people with sensitive data, including those governmental organizations in democracies or academia/secrets consult their superiors. I think that's just common sense.

Caveat emptor.

washere wrote:

My 10 distinct areas of concern were evaded.
Not honest interaction.

Be careful when you assert someone of dishonesty. You made bald unsupported assertions combined with tangential links, mixed with dark conspiracisms, and you even undercut your own arguments by showing that the country's regulations related solely to data of its citizens inside that country, and have nothing to do with data held outside that country for use by non-Vietnamese. If you made 53 unsupported bald assertions that doesn't mean that anyone who disagrees needs respond point by point.

If you think the case is closed then good for you. I think others here can read the links for themselves to make their own determinations, as well as weigh the claims of someone who jumps to ad hominem.