A lively interview with Ian Small about Evernote's "long, tricky journey to fix itself."

https://www.protocol.com/evernote-reboot-ian-small

From what I've seen of the latest release on iOS/iPadOS there is a dumbing down of features occurring in Evernote. Or simplification, whatever one's point of view might be. Other than access to my large repository of Evernote notes, the new software coming of from them is not much different than what others provide at a lower cost.

In the interview, Ian Small seems to be selling the future, rather than the present or the past. The key question has to be whether the installed base provides enough revenue and the current team provides enough ideas for the software to be able to rapidly catch up and overtake its now quite numerous rivals.

This is similar to what happened with Apple Pages and Keynote when they refactored the code to make it work more consistently across all platforms on a new code base. At first they did dumb it down and strip away features, but after the initial release new features came quickly and it soon caught up and surpassed the original app. I assume that Evernote is following the same playbook. First get the new code on all platforms, iron out any bugs, and then start updating all platforms at the same time in a consistent way. I think it is the right strategy, but also feel that they are somewhat late to the game with so many innovative apps out there like Roam, Notion, Paper, etc. Still, I mostly use Evernote for two things: saving web pages and storing PDFs of scanned documents. It is still the best option out there for me, as none of the other new apps seem really interested in these features. Only Devon seems to compete in this area...

Did that happen with Pages? I recall that it once had Appleworks style outlining, but that outlining disappeared in the app. Did it return?

Have they made a profit yet?

--
Andy Brice
http://www.hyperplan.com

I guess "reinventing" be rolling back to Evernote 2 (while keeping the online storage component) is out of the question.

Luhmann wrote:

This is similar to what happened with Apple Pages and Keynote when they
refactored the code to make it work more consistently across all
platforms on a new code base. At first they did dumb it down and strip
away features, but after the initial release new features came quickly
and it soon caught up and surpassed the original app. I assume that
Evernote is following the same playbook. First get the new code on all
platforms, iron out any bugs, and then start updating all platforms at
the same time in a consistent way. I think it is the right strategy, but
also feel that they are somewhat late to the game with so many
innovative apps out there like Roam, Notion, Paper, etc. Still, I mostly
use Evernote for two things: saving web pages and storing PDFs of
scanned documents. It is still the best option out there for me, as none
of the other new apps seem really interested in these features. Only
Devon seems to compete in this area...

And in the process lost all their customers who are now happily using MS Office on a mac. The new versions Pages and Numbers are still poor siblings to what old iWorks used to be. Serious wordprocessing and spreadsheet users won't be using Pages or Numbers. They look nice, but function poorly. They were my go to apps until Apple made them iOS compliant and killed them in the process. They used to be rated 4.5 stars+ and now can't break 4 stars and Numbers is below 3 stars.

If Evernote goes that route they may not recover.

So Evernote is doing what Microsoft has been doing with One Note for the past 8 years or so by dumbing it down to be universal across all screens?

Unfortunate. Though I guess they have no choice. That's the curse of having to cater to a large audience. It's all about 'usability' from the perspective of the average casual user.

It must be soul crushing to design for the market leading tech products. Apple can't 'innovate' iphones faster than the casual user will tolerate. Imagine the meetings at Evernote when they present simple ways to emulate Roam/Notion features but are shot down for fear of scaring away the casuals to OneNote.

Software used to all be niche because casuals were on paper. I've long since finished hoping any big platforms will add power features. At least for PKM software, I'm only interested in software created for people like us. Roam is adding quirky experimental features almost weekly and it's a blast. Meanwhile OneNote keeps polishing it's own pallet and crap like that.

Another long interview with Ian Small -- this time on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEioUvE52To&list=RDCMUCYyaQsm2HyneP9CsIOdihBw&start_radio=1&t=23

Small is charming and persuasive, but I continue to have deep misgivings about Evernote's future. I hope he is right that EN will eventually turn itself around.

Thanks very much for the video link. I found it encouraging and a bit of a relief since I just renewed my premium subscription only a few days ago. I’ve been a user since 2009 and have tried what seems like all of the alternatives but keep coming back. My own web of notes, links, and annotations are simply done best and look the best in Evernote. The availability of Skitch annotation of graphics in notes is a huge advantage, unmatched by any other note-taking system. All, IMHO, of course. My top two wants, other than Evernote company survival, are individual paragraph linking the way it can be done in OneNote and the ability to embed YouTube and Vimeo videos in notes.

Welp, I just backed up all my Evernote notes by importing them into Devonthink and downloaded Evernote 10.0 for Mac. It'll take me a little bit to sort my way through it, take more notes, and decide whether I like it or not. And then I'll wait for these frequent updates that Ian Small promised. The new version doesn't have the Context function, which I have always liked. Dunno if that's a permanent loss or if it will reappear in an update.

Robert Luke wrote:

Welp, I just backed up all my Evernote notes by importing them into
Devonthink and downloaded Evernote 10.0 for Mac. It'll take me a little
bit to sort my way through it, take more notes, and decide whether I
like it or not. And then I'll wait for these frequent updates that Ian
Small promised. The new version doesn't have the Context function, which
I have always liked. Dunno if that's a permanent loss or if it will
reappear in an update.

Hi Robert, a minor point but I'm on macOS and have Evernote 7.something which the application tells me is the latest version. Probably my mistake (or a geographical difference), but I don't understand where version 10 comes from.

Hugh,

I think the only way to get Evernote 10 is through the Mac App Store. You'll find it there.

Hugh wrote:

Robert Luke wrote:
Welp, I just backed up all my Evernote notes by importing them into
>Devonthink and downloaded Evernote 10.0 for Mac. It'll take me a little
>bit to sort my way through it, take more notes, and decide whether I
>like it or not. And then I'll wait for these frequent updates that Ian
>Small promised. The new version doesn't have the Context function,
which
>I have always liked. Dunno if that's a permanent loss or if it will
>reappear in an update.

Hi Robert, a minor point but I'm on macOS and have Evernote 7.something
which the application tells me is the latest version. Probably my
mistake (or a geographical difference), but I don't understand where
version 10 comes from.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Hugh,

I think the only way to get Evernote 10 is through the Mac App Store.
You'll find it there.

Hugh wrote:

>
>Robert Luke wrote:
>Welp, I just backed up all my Evernote notes by importing them into
>>Devonthink and downloaded Evernote 10.0 for Mac. It'll take me a
little
>>bit to sort my way through it, take more notes, and decide whether I
>>like it or not. And then I'll wait for these frequent updates that Ian
>>Small promised. The new version doesn't have the Context function,
>which
>>I have always liked. Dunno if that's a permanent loss or if it will
>>reappear in an update.
>
>Hi Robert, a minor point but I'm on macOS and have Evernote 7.something
>which the application tells me is the latest version. Probably my
>mistake (or a geographical difference), but I don't understand where
>version 10 comes from.

Many thanks, Steve. I hadn't realised that the two versions were numbered differently.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I think the only way to get Evernote 10 is through the Mac App Store.

You can also download it from:
https://evernote.com/download

‑Alex

Hmm, Version 10 apparently lacks Preferences for the time being. Does that mean that you can't choose a default Notebook? If so, that's a disincentive to upgrade just yet.

The setting is there, but somewhat buried. If you click a notebook in the sidebar, then in the next panel to the right you click the three dots at the top (a tooltip says "More Actions") then in that menu you can set the selected notebook as the default notebook.

Hugh wrote:

Hmm, Version 10 apparently lacks Preferences for the time being. Does
that mean that you can't choose a default Notebook? If so, that's a
disincentive to upgrade just yet.

Paul Korm wrote:

The setting is there, but somewhat buried. If you click a notebook in
the sidebar, then in the next panel to the right you click the three
dots at the top (a tooltip says "More Actions") then in that menu you
can set the selected notebook as the default notebook.

Hugh wrote:
Hmm, Version 10 apparently lacks Preferences for the time being. Does
>that mean that you can't choose a default Notebook? If so, that's a
>disincentive to upgrade just yet.

Many thanks, Paul.

The two-device limit now includes the web version.

I may be wrong but the mac app appears to be an electron app.

apb123 wrote:

I may be wrong but the mac app appears to be an electron app.

You're not wrong, and that is why the macOS, Windows and web versions are so much alike !

Well, having downloaded the new version today, my move away from Evernote is now set.

Firstly, I cannot stand electron apps. I'm a keyboard user and often simple shortcuts just don't work. Secondly, with only 500 notes every time I click on a notebook it take a few seconds for the list to appear. Thirdly, no settings whatsoever.

I'm not sure what happen with offline notebooks on the mac as there are no preferences.

Simon wrote:

Firstly, I cannot stand electron apps. I'm a keyboard user and often
simple shortcuts just don't work. Secondly, with only 500 notes every
time I click on a notebook it take a few seconds for the list to appear.
Thirdly, no settings whatsoever.
I'm not sure what happen with offline notebooks on the mac as there are
no preferences.

Simon, Electron itself is not necessarily the problem. Visual Studio Code shows that you can build a very fast, powerful and user friendly IDE on top of Electron.

But I agree with your other points. They plan to add some features (like settings) back later, and will probably improve the UI, but some important features like local notebooks are gone forever. Also, the device limit now includes web access.

Since I cannot have local notebooks any more, I switched to Obsidian, which is also based on Electron, but so much better in many regards, particularly if you appreciate local storage and Markdown. I am using https://github.com/akosbalasko/yarle to convert my Evernote notebooks to Obsidian.

Christoph wrote:

Simon wrote:
>Firstly, I cannot stand electron apps. I'm a keyboard user and often
>simple shortcuts just don't work. Secondly, with only 500 notes every
>time I click on a notebook it take a few seconds for the list to
appear.
>Thirdly, no settings whatsoever.
>I'm not sure what happen with offline notebooks on the mac as there are
>no preferences.

Simon, Electron itself is not necessarily the problem. Visual Studio
Code shows that you can build a very fast, powerful and user friendly
IDE on top of Electron.

But I agree with your other points. They plan to add some features (like
settings) back later, and will probably improve the UI, but some
important features like local notebooks are gone forever. Also, the
device limit now includes web access.

Since I cannot have local notebooks any more, I switched to Obsidian,
which is also based on Electron, but so much better in many regards,
particularly if you appreciate local storage and Markdown. I am using
https://github.com/akosbalasko/yarle to convert my Evernote notebooks to
Obsidian.

Thanks Christoph. I imported all my notes to Bear and then from Bear to Notebooks. I know Notebooks could import Evernote, but Bear was cleaner in the process. It has worked extremely seamlessly and I've moved from two subscriptions (Eveernote and Bear) to a proper licence per version app (Notebooks) so I'm not left in the ransomware situation.