Very exciting to be able to openly discuss this finally!

https://www.devontechnologies.com/blog/devonthink-30b1

Nice to see, but it looks as if I'll lose the web server (gets info into Curio) - the price hike to the server edition is too great

Very excited to see this finally arrive.

The proximity search is working finally.
It now has a little preview that shows the result on the right side.
The highlighting of the found items is correctly working.

is it the end of Foxtrot?

hmmm..

Not too fast...
The preview (excerpt) is not as good as Foxtrot yet.

Thanks for the alert on this. I've had a license for DevonThink Pro for over ten years, but I've rarely used it much. I have found the interface to be much too obtuse (for me -- not speaking for anyone else's experience). Version 3 appears to have improved on this. The only question is will I risk $150 on the upgrade, betting that I will finally use DT more effectively. Not so sure of that.

Steve Z

JakeBernsteinWA wrote:

Very exciting to be able to openly discuss this finally!

https://www.devontechnologies.com/blog/devonthink-30b1

Finally custom metadata! That was always a weak point in an otherwise solid product. Does anyone know how this will affect DevonThink Mobile (the iOS version)... I can't seem to find any information on the website about whether v3 can co-exist with DT Mobile.

Chris Thompson wrote:

Finally custom metadata! That was always a weak point in an otherwise
solid product. Does anyone know how this will affect DevonThink Mobile
(the iOS version)... I can't seem to find any information on the website
about whether v3 can co-exist with DT Mobile.

The database system is not changed. DT3 uses the same database as DT2. you can go back to use DT2 after opened the database with DT3. The database system is not upgraded means that the mobile DT ios is also unaffected.

Can't seem to find the upgrade price, anywhere. Can anyone provide a link?

I found it by downloading the beta. (From memory) there's a link under the File menu. There probably other ways.


Listerene wrote:

Can't seem to find the upgrade price, anywhere. Can anyone provide a
link?

I run DevonThink Pro Office. I have thousands of documents in 32 databases, amounting to more than 15Gb of data. I recommend this upgrade, which appears to have been at least five years in the conceiving and making.

For me, the most significant headline among many is the introduction of smart rules. In my DevonThink workflow previously there was a gap. Mine has always been a "scan-and-stuff-away-for-reading-later" approach, which previously meant that the contents of my DT "global inbox" had to be regularly sorted and distributed to my databases, in many cases each file individually by hand. If I failed to do this, the global inbox would grow far too large. And it did.

Now I simply have to add an identifying three-letter Finder tag to any file bound for DTPO, and my collection of smart rules does the rest - posting the file to the correct folder ("group" in DT language) in the correct database. With many other uses, smart rules comprise a simple form of automation that some won't need or want, but I'm finding invaluable.

Interesting on the smart tags front. To my disappointment, the web server - although much improved - still doesn't highlight search hits in target documents. This is a shame.

However, even the beta seems very smooth and quick. Although I've found a couple of (minor, interface) bugs already... ;-)

Hugh,

As a Pro Office license holder, what are the discounts they are offering you to upgrade? I have a Pro Office license, but they are saying I'm only entitled to the Pro upgrade pricing (basically $50 off). I'm just wondering how hard I should work to get the pricing I should.

Thanks.

Steve Z

Hugh wrote:

I run DevonThink Pro Office. I have thousands of documents in 32
databases, amounting to more than 15Gb of data. I recommend this
upgrade, which appears to have been at least five years in the
conceiving and making.

For me, the most significant headline among many is the introduction of
smart rules. In my DevonThink workflow previously there was a gap. Mine
has always been a "scan-and-stuff-away-for-reading-later" approach,
which previously meant that the contents of my DT "global inbox" had to
be regularly sorted and distributed to my databases, in many cases each
file individually by hand. If I failed to do this, the global inbox
would grow far too large. And it did.

Now I simply have to add an identifying three-letter Finder tag to any
file bound for DTPO, and my collection of smart rules does the rest -
posting the file to the correct folder ("group" in DT language) in the
correct database. With many other uses, smart rules comprise a simple
form of automation that some won't need or want, but I'm finding
invaluable.

I was initially given $99 vs $199 to u/g from Pro Office 3 to Pro, $399 vs $499 for server.

Because I'm working in universities, I was able to get a lower price ($74.25/$299). I'm pondering whether to spring for Server - it's a big jump

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Hugh,

As a Pro Office license holder, what are the discounts they are offering
you to upgrade? I have a Pro Office license, but they are saying I'm
only entitled to the Pro upgrade pricing (basically $50 off). I'm just
wondering how hard I should work to get the pricing I should.

Thanks.

Steve Z

Hugh wrote:
I run DevonThink Pro Office. I have thousands of documents in 32
>databases, amounting to more than 15Gb of data. I recommend this
>upgrade, which appears to have been at least five years in the
>conceiving and making.
>
>For me, the most significant headline among many is the introduction of
>smart rules. In my DevonThink workflow previously there was a gap. Mine
>has always been a "scan-and-stuff-away-for-reading-later" approach,
>which previously meant that the contents of my DT "global inbox" had to
>be regularly sorted and distributed to my databases, in many cases each
>file individually by hand. If I failed to do this, the global inbox
>would grow far too large. And it did.
>
>Now I simply have to add an identifying three-letter Finder tag to any
>file bound for DTPO, and my collection of smart rules does the rest -
>posting the file to the correct folder ("group" in DT language) in the
>correct database. With many other uses, smart rules comprise a simple
>form of automation that some won't need or want, but I'm finding
>invaluable.

Thanks, Nick!

For any who haven't found what DT 3 is going to cost, I found the prices in the Devonthink account page (https://www.devontechnologies.com/customers

After I logged in there, it listed my one license. There is nothing to prompt you to do so, but if you click on the license you'll see your upgrade prices. If you bought recently enough, there's no charge as I understand.

For everyone else, upgrades are $50 off full retail.

The web server would be handy, or so it seems in principle, but I've never actually needed it.

I have DT Pro. Here's the prices:

DT 3.0 - $99, upgrade for $49
DT Pro 3.0 - $199, upgrade $149
DT Server 3.0 - $499, upgrade $449

In my opinion, the upgrade prices for DT and DT pro are what they should charge at retail for a new license.

If the server edition cost an extra $50, I'd buy it to support them and to play with it - and maybe use it for real on rare occasions.

As far as I'm concerned, life would lose its savor absent Devonthink. Without DT to take notes, record observations, and cross reference observed phenomena, I could not trust my refrigerator light to go out when I close the door. I would add that my puppies would bite the very hands the feed them, but they do that anyway (with very evil tail-wagging). I love those mutts.

I'll buy the upgrade to DT Pro - but I think at a lower price, particularly on the server, they would deposit more money in the bank.

Amontillado wrote:

I have DT Pro. Here's the prices:

DT 3.0 - $99, upgrade for $49
DT Pro 3.0 - $199, upgrade $149
DT Server 3.0 - $499, upgrade $449

In my opinion, the upgrade prices for DT and DT pro are what they should
charge at retail for a new license.

I'm in the same position as you. But I found DTP2 to be overkill for my needs and the clunkiness of the interface, combined with some bugginess I'd encountered (and some dev stonewalling about it for a couple of years before fixing it) had me migrate to EagleFiler, which is Mac-only.

I'm using iOS a lot more now and would like a cross-platform solution, but that pricing kills any chances I'll consider DTP3. I do own Notebooks (from Alfons Schmid) for iOS/Mac and may end up migrating my files to it this year. (I might also trial Keep It.)

DT is clunky, granted, but it seems to be exceedingly reliable. I was completely addicted to The Brain, but I had some data loss.

I would have to say The Brain is more open than DT, since the XML that binds it all together is pretty easy to understand. I did some hacking around with it, but ultimately settled on Devonthink. At this point, when I want to keep a bunch of notes in a bundle, DT is what I reach for.

Does anyone have a feel for how safe the public beta is? I imagine it's close to stable, or they wouldn't risk it being seen. On the other hand, I have very mission critical stuff in DT databases. I'm a treasurer for a volunteer organization, and DT is my filing cabinet - sort of. I have an actual filing cabinet, and if DT evaporated, I would be able to continue my role, once I got past the gut-wrenching sobs. All my personal financial records are in DT, too, contained in a few thousand PDF scans over the past few years.

I keep, of course, lots of backups.

They're emphasising that it's a beta - not simply early access. If I were in your position, I wouldn't risk it yet.

That said, there are no public reports of data los ( a whole 2 days after the beta started!)

Amontillado wrote:

Does anyone have a feel for how safe the public beta is? I imagine it's
close to stable, or they wouldn't risk it being seen.

And then I go to the forum and see a post concerning data loss.

https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/dt3-warning-possible-bug-resulting-in-loss-of-data/46477/2


NickG wrote:

They're emphasising that it's a beta - not simply early access. If I
were in your position, I wouldn't risk it yet.

That said, there are no public reports of data los ( a whole 2 days
after the beta started!)

Amontillado wrote:

>
>Does anyone have a feel for how safe the public beta is? I imagine it's
>close to stable, or they wouldn't risk it being seen.

Apologies to anyone for whom my post above may have made it seem as if the beta is 100 per cent safe.

As with any beta software, precautions are advisable. DevonThink databases consist of folders that are completely separate from the application and its supporting files. In the case of my databases, I've ensured that I have three other copies of them, only slightly out of date, saved in three different locations beyond my hard disk. I'm re-assured that they can still be opened by DT2. I've also been re-assured by the care that the developers have applied to their work during the alpha and beta periods so far - for example, in their responses to emails about bugs. (It's also the case that the poster whom NickG refers to below concedes in his post that the problem could have been caused by user-error. DevonThink 3, like DT2, is a "big" programme, and it takes a little while to get your head completely around it - although the just-released Help documentation appears detailed and extensive, and in certain respects DT3 is easier to get to grips with than DT2.)



NickG wrote:

And then I go to the forum and see a post concerning data loss.

https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/dt3-warning-possible-bug-resulting-in-loss-of-data/46477/2


NickG wrote:
They're emphasising that it's a beta - not simply early access. If I
>were in your position, I wouldn't risk it yet.
>
>That said, there are no public reports of data los ( a whole 2 days
>after the beta started!)
>
>Amontillado wrote:
>
>>
>>Does anyone have a feel for how safe the public beta is? I imagine
it's
>>close to stable, or they wouldn't risk it being seen.

All very true - I only posted that caution because, in my previous post, I'd said that there had been no reported instances of loss -

Hugh wrote:

Apologies to anyone for whom my post above may have made it seem as if
the beta is 100 per cent safe.

As with any beta software, precautions are advisable. DevonThink
databases consist of folders that are completely separate from the
application and its supporting files. In the case of my databases, I've
ensured that I have three other copies of them, only slightly out of
date, saved in three different locations beyond my hard disk. I'm
re-assured that they can still be opened by DT2. I've also been
re-assured by the care that the developers have applied to their work
during the alpha and beta periods so far - for example, in their
responses to emails about bugs. (It's also the case that the poster whom
NickG refers to below concedes in his post that the problem could have
been caused by user-error. DevonThink 3, like DT2, is a "big" programme,
and it takes a little while to get your head completely around it -
although the just-released Help documentation appears detailed and
extensive, and in certain respects DT3 is easier to get to grips with
than DT2.)



NickG wrote:
And then I go to the forum and see a post concerning data loss.
>
>https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/dt3-warning-possible-bug-resulting-in-loss-of-data/46477/2
>
>
>NickG wrote:
>They're emphasising that it's a beta - not simply early access. If I
>>were in your position, I wouldn't risk it yet.
>>
>>That said, there are no public reports of data los ( a whole 2 days
>>after the beta started!)
>>
>>Amontillado wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Does anyone have a feel for how safe the public beta is? I imagine
>it's
>>>close to stable, or they wouldn't risk it being seen.

I’ve decided not upgrade to DT3.

I find the iOS app too limited and development on it is far too slow. Yes DB’s are now available on iOS and sync is solid. But that’s where it ends. Finding anything is a nightmare and so it’s use is massively limited. As I’m at least 50% on iOS this upgrade will not benefit me.

I’s also more picky these days and have decided to stop supporting companies that discriminate against specific groups which sadly, Devonthink does.

@Simon,
Interesting. I've moved entirely over to FoxTrot Pro recently, and I'm starting to experiment with the iOS app as well. As a replacement for DT, it's not bad – while it doesn't have the concordance feature, or the ingenious cross-referencing, the search engine is hugely powerful and highly configurable.

When you say DEVONthink discriminates against groups, who did you have in mind?

Data loss is something I've never experienced with DEVONthink 2 or 3. I've been using DEVONthink 3 in alpha and pre-public betas and public betas for several years. Never lost a thing. I transferred completely to DEVONthink 3 six months ago, and never looked back. I use DEVONthink 8 - 12 hours each day and have since v1.

Except ... due to my own stupidity, which has nothing to do with the software. My own observation is that fat fingering or not understanding how indexing works causes people problems.

MadaboutDana wrote:

@Simon,
When you say DEVONthink discriminates against groups, who did you have
in mind?

This can be emotive because we all discriminate in some way or another and I'm not looking to start an argument with others, it's just an observation. I work for a Christian charity and am amazed at how many software vendors discount their software for charities, but specifically state not for religious organisations (even if they are fully registered bonafide charities). They are of course entitled to do so, but this is clear discrimination against a specific group of people and they get away with it. What makes it worse in Devonthink's case is they specifically state in their principles that, "We Treat All People Equal" (https://www.devontechnologies.com/about/principles but obviously not when handing out discounts! Of course they are not the only one's Trello and Airtable do the same, plus a myriad of other vendors.