Has anyone else noticed that the ADM Yahoo Group is no longer available? Did I miss something or is it really gone?

Vince

yes indeed. This group no longer exists. I searched for it all over the net, with no luck. I emailed ESommers today.

Thanks.

That doesn't bode will for ADM. I kept following it to see how it progressed because it had a lot of nice features. I hope they haven't given up.

Vince

cnewtonne wrote:

yes indeed. This group no longer exists. I searched for it all over the net, with no
luck. I emailed ESommers today.

I have been in touch with Jan Rifkinson, who managed the ADM group, and asked him what has happened with the group.

He confirmed that he shut it down as the result of an apparent stagnation in the development process, and a resulting decrease in activity on the group.

He emphasizes that his assessment of a lack of development and its impact on the group is only a personal conlusion on his part, due to a lack of any indication to the contrary. He said that "Eric can presumably be contacted via the website or his other emails directly for first hand information."

Both Jan I hope that we will again see signs of new development of the ADM product.

We hope that ADM finds solid success in the marketplace, recognizing that it has some good features.

Daly

.

There is something that is missing here...
Officially the adm site is up, they are taking new orders, the SW is still downloadable. However, Jan decides to shutdown the support site, while the official adm site still points prospective buyers to this group for support.

I do not uderstand why and how did Jan just decide to shut it down. It does not look like he coordinated it with the ADM team.

For what it's worth, I emailed the ADM sales team (sales@adm21.net) a month and a half ago asking about the software's current status, and received no reply. My guess is as good as any, but I'd imagine that they're winding the company down.

If they do disappear, it would be nice if they released version 4 to the general public to be downloaded, even in its unfinished state. I'd still like to try ADM4.

-- Chris

cnewtonne wrote:

There is something that is missing here...
Officially the adm site is up, they are
taking new orders, the SW is still downloadable. However, Jan decides to shutdown the
support site, while the official adm site still points prospective buyers to this
group for support.

I do not uderstand why and how did Jan just decide to shut it down.
It does not look like he coordinated it with the ADM team.

For months and months we have been waiting for ADM to begin the coding process again to get the bugs out of ADM 4. There has been no regular communication from ADM. When pressed by the group, Eric Somer, the developer, assures us that coding will resume soon. So far no resumption of coding of which we have been advised.

I cannot speak for Jan, but can speak for myself.

As a long-time supporter of ADM I have urged people to try ADM, and assured them that it is a serious player. I found that in the last year the work with ADM 4 has been sidelined periodically by such things as Skype, which in time has been shown to be a diversion to the ongoing development of ADM 4.

Part of the problem may be the fact that Eric Somer lives and works in China, and his partner, Arne, the last time I heard lives in North America. I do not know how that has impacted their ability to work together, but I would be willing to bet that that sure didn't help.

I feel that ADM and its developers are living with a growing credability gap in the market place. My difficulty at writing this is that having supportive of ADM for a long time, and genuinely being impressed by its innovations (if not its ability to clear out bugs in betas or to communicate regularly wiith users), I fear I am adding to the credability gap.

Personally, I like Eric and have enjoyed from time to time non-ADM related correspondence with him. He is an idealist, a visionary.

However, all of the above notwithstanding, I feel I cannot stay silent.

I will also add that had I a hundred thousand dollars or more to invest speculatively, I would be on the horn to Eric to see if that might help get things straightened out for ADM. My fervent hope is that, if capital is a problem, that a worthy investor will step forward, and work with Eric and Arne

There's no doubt in my mind that if the bugs were dealt with, ADM 4 brought to final release readiness, and forward planning and coding conducted, that ADM would prove itself superior to much of its competition. After being a victim of CRIMP, and after having used ADM for a lot of my work, I for one have realized I must for time reasons settle down with one or two programs that let me work qucikly and easily. I am sad that does not include ADM.

I have no doubt whatsoever as to the personal integrity of Eric, and his desire to bring a state-of-the art program to the market. As I say, if I was able to, I would put my money where my mouth is.

Daly



Chris Thompson wrote:

For what it's worth, I emailed the ADM sales team (sales@adm21.net) a month and a
half ago asking about the software's current status, and received no reply. My guess
is as good as any, but I'd imagine that they're winding the company down.

If they do
disappear, it would be nice if they released version 4 to the general public to be
downloaded, even in its unfinished state. I'd still like to try ADM4.

--
Chris

cnewtonne wrote:
>There is something that is missing
here...
>Officially the adm site is up, they are
>taking new orders, the SW is
still downloadable. However, Jan decides to shutdown the
>support site, while the
official adm site still points prospective buyers to this
>group for support.

>
>I do not uderstand why and how did Jan just decide to shut it down.
>It does not
look like he coordinated it with the ADM team.
>

I think it's worth noting the difference in levels of support between a product like Ultra Recall and ADM. There were many bugs in ADM that just kept being pushed aside for years even when development was in progress. It's one thing to keep putting off adding a feature, but it doesn't make sense to add new features while ignoring bugs.

In contrast, the Ultra Recall team squash bugs as fast as possible. I had one display glitch based on certain rare types of imported email messages, and they fixed the bug the SAME DAY. This far exceeded my expectation; I assumed at the very least they would need a few days to get around to it even if it was a simple bug to fix. Also, the rate in which they add new features and improvements to new features is really high, and the number of bugs is very low.

Finally, the UR guys are in constant communication with their user base via their forum, and it's real communication based on user needs. Kinook obviously had a strong vision for their product as well, but I can't see them ever doing something like basically saying "Skype integration is more important than getting errors when you manipulate your outline." A focus on customers is crucial to any business, and I'm not too surprised that most of the folks who sang ADM's praises at some point have now moved on to using other software. I personally don't expect a high level of support or communication from all software providers - only ones who are in business. I use software that's made by individuals or is just posted "as is," and I can't really complain in those cases; it's just up to me whether the benefits outweigh any risks. Maybe ADM should just post their software as freeware or open source it if they can't support customers as a business.

Chris

Chris, I think you make good points.

In ADM's case, I do not think there was an intent to provide poor service, or to ignore glitches, but rather a case of not tempering the vision with a hard-nosed sense of the here and now, and the need to to be taking care of business.

Ultra Recall has, on the other hand, always been responsive with actions as well as words to its customers. I think, from what has been posted here, recently, IdeaMason is another such program. Zoot and InfoHandler, the two programs I most use now, also have very good customer support.

Daly

Chris Murtland wrote:

I think it's worth noting the difference in levels of support between a product like
Ultra Recall and ADM. There were many bugs in ADM that just kept being pushed aside for
years even when development was in progress. It's one thing to keep putting off adding
a feature, but it doesn't make sense to add new features while ignoring bugs.

In
contrast, the Ultra Recall team squash bugs as fast as possible. I had one display
glitch based on certain rare types of imported email messages, and they fixed the bug
the SAME DAY. This far exceeded my expectation; I assumed at the very least they would
need a few days to get around to it even if it was a simple bug to fix. Also, the rate in
which they add new features and improvements to new features is really high, and the
number of bugs is very low.

Finally, the UR guys are in constant communication with
their user base via their forum, and it's real communication based on user needs.
Kinook obviously had a strong vision for their product as well, but I can't see them
ever doing something like basically saying "Skype integration is more important
than getting errors when you manipulate your outline." A focus on customers is
crucial to any business, and I'm not too surprised that most of the folks who sang ADM's
praises at some point have now moved on to using other software. I personally don't
expect a high level of support or communication from all software providers - only
ones who are in business. I use software that's made by individuals or is just posted
"as is," and I can't really complain in those cases; it's just up to me whether the
benefits outweigh any risks. Maybe ADM should just post their software as freeware or
open source it if they can't support customers as a business.

Chris

Daly,

I am not so sure I can believe that Eric is all that ethical. If you go to the ADM web site, you can still pay for an upgrade to the beta of version 4.0. If there is any chance that version 4.0 will never be done, then they should stop selling upgrade immediately. Additionally, you can still purchase version 3.0 for $129. This too is a misrepresentation, as I understand there are a lot of bugs still in version 3.0. Also, people migh purchase 3.0 expecting a new version soon.

All in all, I think the software industry is better off without companies like ADM, which make all shareware developers look bad.

Steve Z.

Steve, I agree with your points about the ethics of positioning and pricing the current version and the beta as ADM has done.

I wish Eric would change it, and this issue did come up on the list. Once when Stephen Diamond raised his concerns in another venu, I felt the need to post to the ADM group about it.

The only thing I might say is that ADM was notorious for not keeping their site current -- that always seemed to be a detail that got lost in the shuffle. I hope that is the case here rather than intennt to deceive, although given the ethics of the situation, it is not a defense.

Daly

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Daly,

I am not so sure I can believe that Eric is all that ethical. If you go to the ADM
web site, you can still pay for an upgrade to the beta of version 4.0. If there is any
chance that version 4.0 will never be done, then they should stop selling upgrade
immediately. Additionally, you can still purchase version 3.0 for $129. This too is a
misrepresentation, as I understand there are a lot of bugs still in version 3.0. Also,
people migh purchase 3.0 expecting a new version soon.

All in all, I think the
software industry is better off without companies like ADM, which make all shareware
developers look bad.

Steve Z.