UV Outline's latest version, 3.5.1 supports columns, and the developer says data types are in the works.

http://uvoutliner.com

This development probably makes UV Outline the first single pane Windows outliner to have columns.

Daly

Daly, do you still have ADM somewhere? If so, can you forward a copy of it to me to my email address.

Thanks & regards,

I'll check and see, Jan. It seemed to me last time I touched it the program wouldn't work & I needed my licence or whatever. I may have at that point removed it from the computer.

I have started using UR again, and am trying out Zoot 6 public beta.

I have InfoQube, but am a little lost with it.

If I had the money I'd flip back to Mac, and be done with this endless search for the holy grail (grin)!

I'll get back to you.

Hope you're well.

Daly

Ecco had (and has) columns! :)
Manfred

Manfred wrote:

Ecco had (and has) columns! :)
Manfred

To the best of my recollection Ecco was the last (only!?) single-pane outliner with columns for Windows.* So I can appreciate Daly enthusiasm for this addition to uvoutliner.

Steve

*I am assuming that InfoQube also has columns, but I have a hard time considering IQ a single-pane outliner when it is so much more.

I really didn't want to damp any enthusiasm. It was just about a fact.

I also hope that there will be more development at the one-pane outliner front.

I was going to mention Ecco Pro as well, but then it occurred to me that in certain narrowly technical sense, Daly's point about UV Outliner is correct, because Ecco Pro has more than one pane. Of course, the conventional meaning of the term "one-pane outliner" does indeed apply to Ecco Pro, but given that the application interface includes (at least) two panes, I wonder if it isn't time that we developed a new vocabulary to refer to such distinctions. Perhaps Ecco Pro could be described as a two-pane intrinsic outliner?

Sorry for the somewhat irrelevant tangent.

I don't think this comment is irrelevant, but I don't quite understand the point. The outline is just one pane (with or without columns as you want).

You can open up the Folder View (but there is no need to do so under most circumstances). So Ecco Pro really is a one-pane outliner according to my lights. But perhaps I don't understand the technical point.

Manfred

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

*I am assuming that InfoQube also has columns, but I have a hard time considering IQ a single-pane outliner when it is so much more.

The same as for Ecco Pro. Being a one-pane outliner + (...) still makes it a one-pane outliner. Columns (and the other stuff) are optional. ;-)

Manfred wrote:

I don't think this comment is irrelevant, but I don't quite understand the point. The
outline is just one pane (with or without columns as you want).

You can open up the
Folder View (but there is no need to do so under most circumstances). So Ecco Pro really
is a one-pane outliner according to my lights. But perhaps I don't understand the
technical point.

Good point. I never use Ecco without the Folder View, so I was forgetting that it's optional. But I could just as well imagine a so-called "two-pane outliner" in which some users might generally keep the folder/hierarchy view hidden and just work in the text pane. In other words, it seems to me that the key issue is what's in the pane (whether it's hierarchical), rather than how many panes there are. Mori, incidentally, has a similar set up to Ecco, with both the hierarchical folder pane and the hierarchical "main pane" being typically visible by default (although the folders can be hidden). So would Mori be called a one-pane outliner?

As for the intrinsic/extrinsic distinction, I just took that from the Wikipedia page on outliners, which seems to cite some Microsoft source. But I'm not sure I understand it properly.

(I hasten to add that I haven't properly search the archives, so this may have all been discussed before.)

What separates one-pane outliners from 2 (or more)-pane outliners, can be summarized in 2 lines:

- Allow writing text in an outline form
- Allow expand and collapse of sections of this outline (expand/collapse items show/hide their sub-items)


(this excludes folder panes, document trees, and HTML/RTF editors)

I also don’t want to counter any enthusiasm, especially on the part of Fedir the developer, but I think that the claim that UV Outliner is "the first modern single pane outliner for Windows with multiple column support in the world" (taken from the blog) is taking things too far. InfoQube is such a modern outliner with multiple column support, as is ListPro http://www.iliumsoft.com/site/lp/lp_ssh.php

That said, I'm glad for my own initial CRIMP enthusiasm on this product; if development continues at this rate, it will probably have several unique features by the end of 2010.

Pierre Paul Landry wrote:

What separates one-pane outliners from 2 (or more)-pane outliners, can be
summarized in 2 lines:

- Allow writing text in an outline form
- Allow expand and
collapse of sections of this outline (expand/collapse items show/hide their
sub-items)


(this excludes folder panes, document trees, and HTML/RTF editors)

Right, that's the conventional definition. I'm just wondering whether "one-pane outliner" is the most useful term to describe the functionality of writing hierarchical/collapsible text. The way I see it, there are three basic possibilities in terms of the functionality of most conventional outliners:

1. Hierarchical folder/title structure *and* hierarchical/collapsible main text
2. Hierarchical folder/title structure but *no* hierarchical/collapsible main text
3. *No* hierarchical folder/title structure but *does have* hierarchical/collapsible main text

According to the conventional definition, both number 1 and number 3 are "one-pane outliners", while number 2 describes "two-pane outliners." And yet, both numbers 1 and 2 both have two panes, while only number 3 in fact has one pane.

So the key distinction isn't between one and two panes; rather, it's between outliners that offer outlining in the main text area versus outliners that offer it only in the folder/title area.

Am I making any sense?

I think your proposed taxonomy is more confusing than anything. One pane outliners are outliners that are designed primarily to edit outlines in a single, integrated window. There may be support for additional notes attached to items, and it may be possible to turn on a window, pane, or inline text display showing those notes, but that secondary pane shouldn't be a primary feature of the user interface, otherwise you have a two pane outliner.

Mori is either a two or three pane outliner depending on one's classification scheme. The difference between two and three pane outliners isn't particularly significant in my view, because once you have to start having to edit your outline in disjoint parts of the user interface, whether there are two or three panes doesn't matter.

In any case, the developer of UV Outliner deserves huge kudos for his work here. One shouldn't forget InfoQube though, as it still has a more complete set of traditional outliner features, including clones and hoisting, in addition to columns. But the interface is a bear. I have no doubt UV Outliner will add hoisting at some point. If the developer adds clones, it will be a giant of a program.

-- Chris

I think your proposed taxonomy is more confusing than anything. One pane outliners are outliners that are designed primarily to edit outlines in a single, integrated window. There may be support for additional notes attached to items, and it may be possible to turn on a window, pane, or inline text display showing those notes, but that secondary pane shouldn't be a primary feature of the user interface, otherwise you have a two pane outliner.

Mori is either a two or three pane outliner depending on one's classification scheme. The difference between two and three pane outliners isn't particularly significant in my view, because once you have to start having to edit your outline in disjoint parts of the user interface, whether there are two or three panes doesn't matter.

In any case, the developer of UV Outliner deserves huge kudos for his work here. One shouldn't forget InfoQube though, as it still has a more complete set of traditional outliner features, including clones and hoisting, in addition to columns. But the interface is a bear. I have no doubt UV Outliner will add hoisting at some point. If the developer adds clones, it will be a giant of a program.

-- Chris

Chris.

UVOutliner 1.51 has a Hoist command (in the View menu).

The Columns feature, by the way, is only available in the Pro version ($20).

Franz

Franz Grieser, that was my mistake.
Please roll back to v.1.5 where multicolumn support is available in free version too.

I have removed v. 1.5.1 from the website.
Version 1.5 is now the latest one.

Sorry for this hassle. I just realized that I wanted everyone to be able to try multicolumn for free.

Fedir Nepyivoda
UV Outliner developer

Thanks for the hint, Fedir.

Franz

I wish I had waited till today. I was excited to try the columns, so bought the pro version yesterday!

I like the approach you're taking by having hoist as part of the feature set early on, and I see you're planning data-type columns in near future.

Three things I'd like to see are:

1. Cloning capability
2. In-line notes
3. Ability to set check boxes for a specific topic's children

I wish you success.

Daly

Fedir Nepyivoda wrote:

Franz Grieser, that was my mistake.
Please roll back to v.1.5 where multicolumn
support is available in free version too.

I have removed v. 1.5.1 from the
website.
Version 1.5 is now the latest one.

Sorry for this hassle. I just realized
that I wanted everyone to be able to try multicolumn for free.

Fedir Nepyivoda
UV
Outliner developer

Daly, it's no problem, if you do not use UV Outliner often and do not want to have a registered version just write an email to fedir@uvoutliner.com, and I'll do a refund.

Following on from Daly's list, I have some other suggestions:

It would be interesting to see whether or how well UV Outliner can import outlines. I don't see any menu item for importing data. Is cut-and-paste the only way? I seem to remember that Brainstorm can import Grandview outlines, as can Inspiration. PocketThinker has probably the widest range of importing options (Bonsai CSV, Ecco SCV (tab indented outline), Shadow Plan XML, Streamliner (whatever that is...), Text (in tab indented format), TreNotes XML, Word Document and RTF).

Are there any plans for providing some importing functions for UV Outliner? Has anyone tried importing outlines from other programs into UV Outliner ?

While on the subject, is it possible to export UV Outliner's own outlines to MS-Word so that Word's outliner can use them "as is" - i.e., without too much reformatting?

Derek

Fedir, thanks for the generous offer.

I'm happy to remain registered, though.

Thanks, again.

Daly

Fedir Nepyivoda wrote:

Daly, it's no problem, if you do not use UV Outliner often and do not want to have a
registered version just write an email to fedir@uvoutliner.com, and I'll do a
refund.

Jan,
are you still looking for adm?
If yes let me know, I found an old version (477)

Susanne

Daly de Gagne wrote:

UV Outline's latest version, 3.5.1 supports columns, and the developer says data
types are in the works.

http://uvoutliner.com

This development probably makes
UV Outline the first single pane Windows outliner to have columns.

Daly

Daly -

It's certainly encouraging to see a new entrant into the Windows single-pane outliner stakes, but don't let us get too carried away. Leaving aside Grandview - which had columns, but is not a native Windows outliner - PocketThinker, Bonsai and Shadow Plan all have Desktop versions with "columns" features. There are probably more out there, too.

In any case, although "columns" and checklist boxes are useful features, they are more relevant to the production of lists, project management, and other PIM-like activities than to the production of outlines per se. Making a broader comparison amongst Windows single-pane outliners, which means also including Maxthink, Notemap and Inspiration as well as those mentioned above, PocketThinker still seems to me to be - so far - the most elegant and useful. PocketThinker is, of course, no longer being developed AFAIK.

Derek

Derek Cornish wrote:

Following on from Daly's list, I have some other suggestions:
I seem to remember that Brainstorm can import Grandview outlines, as can Inspiration.

----------------------
Derek,
What intermediate file format do you use to import GV outlines into Inspiration?
Thanks!
-c