satis wrote:

Seeing as you're in the Apple ecosystem, take a look at Apple's new
Freeform app. Currently available on the latest versions of iOS and
iPadOS, it is currently in the latest beta of macOS Ventura, due out
soon. Seems to do what Scapple does and a *lot* more, allowing adding
(and real-time sharing of and collaborating on) sketches, notes, files,
web links, documents, photos, video, and audio.

Freeform is out officially today, alongside new versions of macOS, iOS and iPadOS. The app looks amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AM5Fgb-qjA

I think that $21 Scapple is effectively a dead duck on Mac compared to this more powerful, free alternative.

Although it's worth reminding people that Apple Numbers already did all this stuff, but had an accessible repository (in iCloud; you can't access Freeform files directly) and was also collaborative

satis wrote:

>Seeing as you're in the Apple ecosystem, take a look at Apple's new
>Freeform app. Currently available on the latest versions of iOS and
>iPadOS, it is currently in the latest beta of macOS Ventura, due out
>soon. Seems to do what Scapple does and a *lot* more, allowing adding
>(and real-time sharing of and collaborating on) sketches, notes, files,
>web links, documents, photos, video, and audio.

Freeform is out officially today, alongside new versions of macOS, iOS
and iPadOS. The app looks amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AM5Fgb-qjA

I think that $21 Scapple is effectively a dead duck on Mac compared to
this more powerful, free alternative.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Apple Numbers already did all this stuff

I really don't think it did.

https://www.macstories.net/reviews/freeform-leverages-the-freedom-and-flexibility-of-a-blank-canvas/

The Freeform app seems very underwhelming to me. Nothing really attaches to anything else in a way that would make it easy to rearrange. I could imagine using it as a large white board mainly for sticky notes though.

I agree. Compared to Scapple which provides better tools for linking notes using flow chart-type arrows, I don't foresee using it much.

Chris Thompson wrote:

The Freeform app seems very underwhelming to me. Nothing really attaches
to anything else in a way that would make it easy to rearrange. I could
imagine using it as a large white board mainly for sticky notes though.

Nah, it really did (does!). People don't realise that the underlying Numbers concept is precisely that: a gigantic blank object-oriented canvas (with no apparent limits, according to my own experimentation). I've already read the MacStories review, and the more I read, the more it made me smile, especially the phrase "The app is easy to use and impressively feature-rich for a new release." There's nothing essentially new about it – Numbers has done almost everything (possibly everything; I'll have to make a detailed comparison) that Freeform does for years.

I was also amused by the comparison with Notes – Freeform's DNA has much more in common with Numbers than with Notes. If you drag objects around, you soon discover that a Numbers backdrop is essentially unlimited.

But it appears that very few people use Numbers in any depth. I've always loved it because its whole approach to spreadsheets is so much friendlier than Excel's.

It's worth remarking that we've been using it in the business as an internal whiteboarding/brainstorming tool for quite a while. Freeform is essentially just Numbers, but by default, the blank Numbers template automatically dumps a spreadsheet object in the canvas. You can place every kind of object in there (including shapes, rich test, sketches) and just like Freeform, it's not great on linking (although you can create links with lines, with or without arrows).

The backward step in Freeform is the lack of access to Freeform files. You can access (and collaborate on) Numbers files in iCloud anytime.

satis wrote:

MadaboutDana wrote:

> Apple Numbers already did all this stuff

I really don't think it did.

https://www.macstories.net/reviews/freeform-leverages-the-freedom-and-flexibility-of-a-blank-canvas/

... in fact, I've just upgraded my system and have been playing with Freeform. To my very considerable amusement, the only thing Freeform does which Numbers doesn't do is support third-party files (which can be opened directly from Freeform).

On the other hand, Numbers has a larger array of media options (including audio recording directly into the file and multiple video options). And of course supports complex spreadsheets, which Freeform doesn't do.

You can use lines to link one object to another – not as simply as in Scapple, of course. Ironically, it's actually a bit more fiddly in Freeform, because it lacks the "Format" panel that can be opened on the right-hand side of Numbers, but it works perfectly well.

I do like the fact you can drop more or less any kind of file into a Freeform board – that's quite cool. And if you want a spreadsheet, you can always embed a Numbers file!

Still, it's essentially a nice, simple app (and even supports tabs, which is always nice; Numbers does tabs as well, of course).

Comments in Freeform are horribly constrained. They're a separate type of thing in Numbers – always attached to another object. That's because you can format Numbers text boxes in many different ways, so it's not difficult to make them look like separate comments, whereas the text box formatting options in Freeform are very limited.

Freeform also doesn't appear to be able to access Photos (and all the multimedia in Photos) – clearly a bug, because Numbers can access everything in Photos, and is also capable of inserting Movies and Music directly from your Apple library. Mind you, you can always drag and drop the files into Freeform.

Interesting. Horses for courses, I'd say. Freeform's a great place to store files for multiple people to access and comment on. That's certainly very useful.

Do you mean something like this? --> https://imgur.com/a/IRD6Zz1
Hiding 'actual content' is a default setting, you can change it.
You may find this topic interesting: https://forum.eastgate.com/t/literature-review-with-tinderbox/5721


Dellu wrote:

Can you draw maps like this using
Tinderbox?https://medium.com/@reorx/a-look-into-heptabases-split-writing-experience-87f9c2bfb257

No, you cannot. Tinderbox hides the actual content under the
title/folder, unless you want to write paragraphs of content on the
Title itself; which will lead you to complicated problems, if possible
at all.

Tinderbox is good for database kind of stuff.

But, for figuring out lines of argumentation, that I described at the
beginning, there are better tools. Scapple or Moro, or Heptabase or
scrintal let you figure of conceptual flows in a couple of minutes with
ease so that you will use your valuable time for actual productive work.

I had read your comments about Numbers before, I guess I just pictured typing or inserting stuff into different cells in a grid (or something like that?)

But I finally fired up the most recent version, and yeah wow- Freeform is really just like Numbers!! ;-) I had no idea that Apple went with this new format for Numbers, where a spreadsheet is just not the file itself but just an object on a page/canvas- pretty cool! It even has Apple Pencil support on the iPad.


MadaboutDana wrote:

Nah, it really did (does!). People don't realise that the underlying
Numbers concept is precisely that: a gigantic blank object-oriented
canvas (with no apparent limits, according to my own experimentation).

That model of infinite canvas with objects on it goes back for years in Numbers.

Much more flexible for my needs than Excel. That's a personal preference, of course.

Hi, ShiJianhui,

How do you find the new release of Tinderbox? I haven't had time to use it yet.

ShiJianhui wrote:

Do you mean something like this? --> https://imgur.com/a/IRD6Zz1
Hiding 'actual content' is a default setting, you can change it.
You may find this topic interesting:
https://forum.eastgate.com/t/literature-review-with-tinderbox/5721


Dellu wrote:

>Can you draw maps like this using
>Tinderbox?https://medium.com/@reorx/a-look-into-heptabases-split-writing-experience-87f9c2bfb257
>
>No, you cannot. Tinderbox hides the actual content under the
>title/folder, unless you want to write paragraphs of content on the
>Title itself; which will lead you to complicated problems, if possible
>at all.
>
>Tinderbox is good for database kind of stuff.
>
>But, for figuring out lines of argumentation, that I described at the
>beginning, there are better tools. Scapple or Moro, or Heptabase or
>scrintal let you figure of conceptual flows in a couple of minutes with
>ease so that you will use your valuable time for actual productive
work.
>
>
>

Hi!
I have encountered only one bug so far, I think 9.5 is a pretty solid update. For me, the most useful features of the new update are efficient image storage (no more need for workarounds!) and 'Longform Writing' that 'lets you select any notes you like and view them as a continuous document'. I haven't try new action code, as I don't need it for my work.

Amontillado wrote:

Hi, ShiJianhui,

How do you find the new release of Tinderbox? I haven't had time to use
it yet.

It does indeed. The trouble is, the concept of "spreadsheet" has been dominated by first Lotus, then Microsoft Excel for so long, the novel approach adopted by Apple totally failed to impinge on general awareness (despite a bunch of brilliant templates provided with Numbers as a matter of course, which clearly show the underlying object-oriented model).

Amontillado wrote:

That model of infinite canvas with objects on it goes back for years in
Numbers.

Much more flexible for my needs than Excel. That's a personal
preference, of course.