Zenkit Hypernotes is currently in closed early access, but in the meantime, it's interesting to see the concept:

https://zenkit.com/en/hypernotes/

Quick update: A few hours after I posted here, the iOS app was released on the App Store. I was able to log in and use HyperNotes with my existing ZenKit account. I assume the web version will become public very soon.

Interesting. They have a lot of key Roam features right off the bat. Other than Noteplan, it is the only such app right now to have a nice mobile app, and unlike NotePlan it is based around hierarchical outlines with transclusion and zooming. The only thing I couldn't figure out how to do was embed a task in an outline, seems that right now the task list is completely separate?

One concern is lock-in. I don’t see any export options right now.

Thanks for posting this! Some first thoughts, having just taken a look:

- Keyboard/mouse bias (“click to start writing” in a new note ). On iOS, that’s disappointing…
- It’s easy to move nodes by touch— makes up for the bias towards keyboards and mice in some of the language…but I haven't found touch alternatives for some of the more "pro" user controls (e.g. open page in side panel, and many of the graph control keyboard shortcuts...). This is one of the reasons I rarely take on any of the contemporary knowledge management tools (apart from the fact that I'm reasonably happy with my current set-up)— I work between an iPad and a Mac, and up until very recently I was iPad exclusive. I treat my mobile devices as serious work tools so I'm always a little put off when an app doesn't support mobile devices with feature parity.
- Outliner format. Very cool. Makes use of block-level thinking, organised into pages.
- Breadcrumb works nicely. Also, good set of interface models for content— card style pages layout, a table, daily notes as an area in its own right, tasks also in a separate area/screen, and a graph.
- How to open pages from the graph? Doesn't seem to work, or is counter-intuitive. Bug?
- Feels like it should come with an example notebook with more sample items in it. Anyone who's new to this class of app will fail to appreciate the value of the graph until they've generated enough linked pages to make the graph meaningful.
- Autocomplete pairs— nice!
- Bit of conflation between tagging (#) and wiki-linking. You can use both… basic guides suggest that wiki-links are for references that include spaces. So tags are essentially pages here.
- Easy to select all nodes in a page and invoke share extension to push content to another app.
- Web clipper (iOS share extension) captures link but not selected text? Creates new page, but can't see how to add selected content to a new page. And what of images? Also, title of web page doesn't seem to be auto-detected, so new page is created with URL as a title. Curious to discover the best way to get content into the app (beyond manual typing...)
- Very interested in the notion of publishable pages and the fact that it offers collaborative use from the get-go.
- Easy insertion of block references from /slash command palette. Nice.
- Also easy to upload images, though image doesn't seem to display inline in the iOS version (bug?)— fine in the web version...

Luhmann wrote:

Interesting. They have a lot of key Roam features right off the bat.
Other than Noteplan, it is the only such app right now to have a nice
mobile app, and unlike NotePlan it is based around hierarchical outlines
with transclusion and zooming. The only thing I couldn't figure out how
to do was embed a task in an outline, seems that right now the task list
is completely separate?

My thoughts exactly. In fact, other than AmpleNote, which doesn't have folding and zooming last I checked, Hypernotes appears to be the only Roam-like cross-platform option with mobile apps. (Obsidian, which doesn't have zooming/hoisting but is nonetheless excellent, is now working on mobile apps.)

Hypernotes appears to still have some bugs, which is okay for a just-released beta, but I did figure out the tasks thing. If you type / then select new task, then write the task between the last two parentheses that get concerted. Not very intuitive at the moment, but it works.

As for export, I am trusting that it's on the horizon, as Zenkit specifically lists export options as one of the things that makes it better than Notion: https://zenkit.com/en/base/alternatives/notion-alternative/

jsamlarose, thanks for your review!

Oh, one other thing. Hypernotes appears to now be available on all platforms:

https://zenkit.com/en/hypernotes/platforms/

I could not understand how to make this work.

Lucas wrote:

If you type /
then select new task, then write the task between the last two
parentheses that get concerted. Not very intuitive at the moment, but it
works.

Luhmann wrote:

I could not understand how to make this work.

Lucas wrote:
>If you type /
>then select new task, then write the task between the last two
>parentheses that get concerted. Not very intuitive at the moment, but
it
>works.

Here are the steps:
1. Type "/" at the beginning of a line
2. A drop-down menu appears, the first item in the drop-down list being "Page Reference". Select the fourth option, "Task".
3. A new drop-down menu appears. Select the last item in the drop-down list, which should be "Create Task".
4. Something like the following will now appear in the editor:

((b511ffe9-ea54-44ce-b0d8-10c9183fce91))()

There is a bug whereby if one clicks on the line, an extra set of parentheses maybe be added to the end of the line. If that happens, delete the extra set of parentheses. In other words, if the line ends with "()()", change it to "()".

Type the name of the task between the last two parentheses, e.g.:

!((b511ffe9-ea54-44ce-b0d8-10c9183fce91))(My task)

Now, when you click on another line, so that you leave edit mode for line just created, you should see your newly created task, "My task".

HTH

Thanks. I see it now. I didn't realize that the / menu scrolled.
Weird thing is that if you get a task, it doesn't tell you if it is done or not. And when you click on it, the task interface takes over and the only way to get back to the outline is to force the app to restart? I guess it all needs work, but still nice to have a Roam-like app that is mobile first....

https://9to5mac.com/2021/03/11/zenkit-hypernotes/

Reads like it was a press release from Zenkit... Glad they mention Roam, but there is no sense of how exactly this is a clone... down to the language and syntax used to describe various parts of the system. The only innovations I can see are (1) an ios app (2) task manager, and (3) a commenting system. Otherwise it is all Roam.

I'm not sure I agree entirely with the sentiment here. Yes, Zenkit's Hypernotes uses bi-directional linking, an outline structure, and a graph, each of which is absolutely borrowed from Roam. But it uses a very different organizing method, and is aimed at collaboration. Hypernotes allows you to build as many notebooks (which correlates to Roam's Graphs), while Roam only allows three AND you can't even rename them. And the task feature is fairly significant, I think.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there are some significant differences that some people (me for instance) might find appealing. Hypernotes has a long way to go to smooth out some issues (the way you have to create a task, for instance, is idiotic).

I admire Roam a great deal, but three tries at making it work for me have failed. Once Hypernotes gets the kinks worked out, I would seriously consider using it.


Luhmann wrote:

Reads like it was a press release from Zenkit... Glad they mention Roam,
but there is no sense of how exactly this is a clone... down to the
language and syntax used to describe various parts of the system. The
only innovations I can see are (1) an ios app (2) task manager, and (3)
a commenting system. Otherwise it is all Roam.

I've been following ZenKit for a few years, as what they're now calling 'Base' offered tasks, reminders and one-click kanban view (also one-click Table, Gantt, List, and Mindmap views) for years before most competitors. They pivoted a bit to make the main view resemble Wunderlist, and aimed that product more at the enterprise (real-time collaboration, chat, Notion-like team wikis) but it remained competitively priced for solo use with task managers like TickTick and Todoist. But the addition of Hypernotes seems to knock it out of the park.

Thanks, @Lucas, for sharing this gem of a find. I signed up and liked the app straight away. Straight out of the box, I had the app up and working. It was so iIntuitive with almost no learning curve. Of course, there are many missing features/functions, but it is still in beta. I would like to see export functions. As an academic working with hundreds, even thousands of research papers, I need interaction with highlights and notes I make on the PDF of a research paper. With these features, I believe the search for my ultimate for taking notes on research is over!

In my feed of YouTube videos, the following review came up:

https://youtu.be/oR63AgLfa6w

Lucas wrote:

Zenkit Hypernotes is currently in closed early access, but in the
meantime, it's interesting to see the concept:

https://zenkit.com/en/hypernotes/

jsamlarose wrote:

- Feels like it should come with an example notebook with more sample
items in it. Anyone who's new to this class of app will fail to
appreciate the value of the graph until they've generated enough linked
pages to make the graph meaningful.

@jsamlarose: FYI, I noticed that if you create a new account now, it automatically includes a tutorial notebook.

@Luhmann, yes, I encountered the same bug with tasks on iOS that requires restarting the app. The web version has been updated, but presumably the mobile update needs to get through the approval process.

Thanks, all, for the interesting thoughts!

Also note, there's a great thread over at Product Hunt where the Zenkit CEO appears to be answering all questions:

https://www.producthunt.com/posts/hypernotes

Brief overview of Hypernotes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR63AgLfa6w

For a new app it offers a lot, with a lot of polish, leveraging the feature-set of ZenKit's other products. Hypernotes by itself is the same (high) price as Dynalist, though it offers near-parity Dynalist while also offering additional useful features like bi-directional links and graph. Still not sold on the $96/year price point, for either app.

It's clear from the collaboration features and optional chat module that the focus is on business users, which is a bit of a shame. I think the single-user pricing can be a stumbling block. If they bundled in their Wunderlist To-Do clone at the same price for single users I could see this being more compelling. (Besides, their $48/year to-do product isn't by itself irresistible in the face of established products that cost less and offer additional features like two-way calendar sync and kanban, the latter of which is only available if one also subscribes to the add-on $9/month 'Base' product.)

While I agree with most of what you're saying re Hypernote and Dynalist, I do need to point out that Dynalist does have bi-directional linking. They just do a poor job of promoting it.

satis wrote:

Brief overview of Hypernotes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR63AgLfa6w

For a new app it offers a lot, with a lot of polish, leveraging the
feature-set of ZenKit's other products. Hypernotes by itself is the same
(high) price as Dynalist, though it offers near-parity Dynalist while
also offering additional useful features like bi-directional links and
graph. Still not sold on the $96/year price point, for either app.

It's clear from the collaboration features and optional chat module that
the focus is on business users, which is a bit of a shame. I think the
single-user pricing can be a stumbling block. If they bundled in their
Wunderlist To-Do clone at the same price for single users I could see
this being more compelling. (Besides, their $48/year to-do product isn't
by itself irresistible in the face of established products that cost
less and offer additional features like two-way calendar sync and
kanban, the latter of which is only available if one also subscribes to
the add-on $9/month 'Base' product.)