https://mindnode.com/post/outlining-and-mind-mapping-side-by-side

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpdbuU9XMAAYfE0?format=jpg&name=orig

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpdbuU7XEAgR8de?format=jpg&name=orig

@satis thank you

Requires the annual subscription -- yes?

What is the state of the art in outliners with mind maps -- or, conversely, mind mappers with outlines?

MindNode has always had an outline view, but it was in a second pane, not full-window.

This is a very useful development. MindNode is glitch free in my use, and it exports clean OPML.

Paul Korm wrote:

Requires the annual subscription -- yes?

What is the state of the art in outliners with mind maps -- or,
conversely, mind mappers with outlines?

MindNode went subscription in 2020 with the current version. I was a pre-existing owner of the app so all features of the current version are available to me now, but I assume that this new version would require a subscription for me as well.

In 2017 MindNode went from a pay model to free with IAP, but it was not generating sufficient recurring revenue. It joined Setapp in 2018 (and the Setapp subscription includes iOS unlock and sync), but it remains to be seen if they continue with it next year with the upcoming revision.

When I need to make a mind map I've been trying to instead learn iThoughts X on the Mac, which I also own. It's generally more powerful, but it's also more annoyingly complicated.

Mindmaps tend to offer rudimentary outlining capabilities, sometimes just an uneditable outline view. MindNode seems to be integrating a basic outliner but they miss out of including some things that are essential for me like keyboard shortcuts for 'Add daughter node' or 'Add Aunt node', instead requiring a 2-step process of creating a new node then indenting/outdenting.

Basic outlining per se tends to get short shrift by developers for some reason. They get close then whiff by omitting useful features in order to shoehorn the view or module to work with other ones. For example ZenKit refuses to use the word 'outline' instead offering a 'Hierarchy view' in a portion of a window, with the ability to add subtasks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP8HhKX36sg

...all so you can easily switch view between other modules like kanban, calendar, table, and mindmap.

As for MindNode, I don't see myself paying for a subscription in 2021, but I'll put a pin in it and see how the outlining view progresses over time.

I have been using Mindomo for mind mapping. It allows you to switch between outline and map views, sort of in the way Inspiration lets you. The outline looks very similar to Workflowy though without as much functionality. It's cloud-based, but has desktop apps for Mac and Windows and iOS that allow you to work offline. It isn't as powerful as other mind mappers, but I like its clean UI.

Here is a link to a mind map example of the Solar System:

https://www.mindomo.com/mindmap/ad4fe89470a54166a34ea92c87955bcd

Here is a link to the outline of this mind map:

https://www.mindomo.com/outline/ad4fe89470a54166a34ea92c87955bcd

You will need to use the password "Outline" to access. You can toggle back and forth between your outline and mind map, but Mindomo doesn't seem to give the people you share it with that ability, thus the two different links.

Mindomo also offer a Gantt chart view, but I've never used this.

Most online mind map services offer the ability to host nicely formatted maps, but it's nice to also be able to host outlines. Not something I'd need but I can see its usefulness for others. The killer feature these apps seem to have is integration with other services like Zapier.

I tend to use mind maps for idea generation and brainstorming, then output OPML to OmniOutliner, in which I use the resulting framework in building an extended outline (and even long-form writing prior to outputting to a writing app).

With the absence of good alternative outliners but given my occasional Trello use, I'd been investigating a separate combo mind map/kanban solution (Zenkit, Taskade, MindMeister/MeisterTask). Standalone mind map apps and services remain more functional and powerful so I'm not sure whether it's worth the tradeoffs for me to switch off Trello for a combo product.

Paul Korm wrote:

What is the state of the art in outliners with mind maps -- or,
conversely, mind mappers with outlines?

This is an interesting question and probably worth asking even about mind mappers without outliners.

The answer will probably depend on the specific definition of what a mind mapper is (visual hierarchical outlining capability only?) and whether it includes the concept mapper category (not necessarily hierarchical).

In terms of the former category (hierarchical outlining), I don't see much difference between freely available solutions (Freeplane, MindMup etc.) and the expensive bells-and-whistle heavy-weights as far as the outcome (outline output) is concerned, unless the differentiating factor is some kind of sophisticated project management solution (Gantt chart integration, calendars etc.), but then maybe we are not talking about mind mapping anymore.

I find innovations in the concept mapping category more exciting. The most interesting solution I've come across in recent years is Plectica (plectica.com). I'm still playing with it but I'm coming close to subscribing.

What I like about it (besides the semantic zoom, i.e. the ability to move between levels of granularity and still be able to see the semantic links between parts of the outline or visual structure) is the ease with which one can outline 'topographically', by which I mean that you can create 'islands' of content (which can represent both spatial and temporal entities or anything you like), and then merge or inter-link those islands.

Plectica operates on the basis of a whole vs. parts ontology, meaning that everything in the universe can be represented as being a smaller part of something bigger, and everything can be further broken down as having smaller parts, and Plectica can zoom easily between these levels.

It is not easy to explain all this, but there is something very clever about how Plectica operates and the kind of analysis and synthesis that it allows (its affordances).

My use of mindmaps is mostly to outline talks. In the Linux world, I've rediscovered Vym (View Your mind, found at http://www.insilmaril.de/vym/ It has an outliner view, but not editable. But very small, fast, and free! I remember playing around with Transno (https://transno.com/ too, which felt a lot like Dynalist, with one click conversion to mindmaps. But I don't remember if you can edit the maps in that view. I do see why the two are connected.

I intend to try out Trasno but its onboarding is geekily awkward and confusing, which doesn't necessarily bode well for the app.

When signing up there's a field for your email then one which simply says CODE (then fields for password and repeat-password). I tried making up a code and was told it was incorrect, noticed a light-grey countdown clock with seconds remaining, and jumped to my email account where I found an email with the code: they sent the code simply by reading the email, and didn't explain what was happening.

Very clunky and uncommunicative - there should have been an email entry page, a note to check email for code, then a separate page for finishing sign-up.

Got email today from MindNode saying that current Mac users can get on the public beta with outlining now, and that an iOS version with matching features should be released two months after the Mac version exits beta.

https://mindnode.com/page/public-beta

"MindNode’s Newly-Editable Outline View Adds a Terrific New Dimension to the Mind Mapping App’s Mac Version"

https://www.macstories.net/reviews/mindnodes-newly-editable-outline-view-adds-a-terrific-new-dimension-to-the-mind-mapping-apps-mac-version/

or

https://bit.ly/2KAW6iy

I got grandfathered to version 7. Today I found an update, but it doesn't include the full-window outline view.

The subscription isn't much. Hmmm... I don't use MindNode that often, but it's helpful sometimes. Must consider options.

William Gallagher just put out a video discussing the new features of MindNode. He can be overly loquacious but it's still worth a look.

https://youtu.be/FIKTb4rpWwA?t=124

William Gallagher has nice videos. I agree, he's loquacious - and that's a great word for it - but it's OK. He's worth listening to.

MindNode expanding its outline mode into iOS. Currently in beta.

https://mindnode.com/page/beta

Mindnode has improved the outliner editor in the mindmap app

https://9to5mac.com/2022/04/19/mindnode-for-mac-and-ios-update/

I just noticed that the iThoughts mindmap dev is teasing more outlining functionality coming soon.

https://twitter.com/toketaWare/status/1514183702787641345