Yep to everything you say, Sarah.

Steve

Sarah wrote:

So do I. I consider it a completely different software experience,
altogether.

And I won't say it's unwelcoming, but to me, it's overwhelming. From the
first page of whatever software you're looking at, everybody's speaking
a different language. They all seem to know what they're talking about &
they're all set.

That's fine, it's just where the fun ends for me.


Stephen Zeoli wrote:
A note of solidarity, Daly: I too find GitHub baffling.
>
>Daly de Gagne wrote:
>I am sure those links are meaningful to some people if they're into
>>programming and coding. For the rest of us, I wonder if Athens and
Foam
>>have their own web pages which aren't quite as esoteric as what is
>>posted on GitHub.
>>
>>satis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Luhmann wrote:
>>>
>>>>- Athens https://github.com/athensresearch/athens
>>>
>>>Athens is interesting in that the dev interviewed with Roam, and
>>>apparently after failing to gain employment fairly quickly wrote this
>>>open-source version using Clojure. And he later secured $1m+ in
>>>financing for it.
>>>
>>>Another open source Roam clone to consider is Foam.
>>>
>>>https://foambubble.github.io/foam/

It is far from there yet, but I like the fact that the developers of Logseq have as one of their goals the idea that their app could be usable by children.

In terms of a native app Tinderbox has seen a lot of development and is still one of the best notes apps in existence. Step learning curve but phenomenally powerful.

Also the humble plain vanilla tiddlywiki can do just about anything. Everything is a tiddler. It is extremely powerful. I’m finding it one of the most flexible apps about. And it’s free!

Thanks @Luhmann for the reminder of Logseq. I have been trying it out recently and can see where Logseq has the best mix of features from Roam and Obsidian. There is still much more development to be done before I can use Logseq as a depository for my thoughts and findings in my research, but the base features together with Logseq's inbuilt feature for using highlights of PDFs is what have been searching for some time. This is wonderful for academic research :)

I find that the major issue I have with the Logseq is using it for a depository with Dropbox which is accessed from the home and work computers. I am sure this will be rectified with time.

Luhmann wrote:

It is far from there yet, but I like the fact that the developers of
Logseq have as one of their goals the idea that their app could be
usable by children.

What is the issue you have with Dropbox? I know a lot of people are using it with Dropbox...

Darren McDonald wrote:

I find that the major issue I have with the Logseq is using it for a
depository with Dropbox which is accessed from the home and work
computers. I am sure this will be rectified with time.

@Luhmann, I was actually working with Logseq today and discovered the problem is not just with Dropbox.

Basically, when I change the name of a page using "rename" in the pull-down menu, it creates a new page and leaves the old page intact. You only discover this when you view "all pages" to see the list of pages. This results in a long list of unwanted pages and gets rather confusing.

Also, when I delete unwanted pages from a Roam JSON package that I imported into Logseq, the pages reappear when I open Logseq on my iMac at home. I made sure to sync and close Logseq before logging off and opening Logseq on another computer. I am using the Mac desktop version. I tried the online version using my space on Github (repository). The issues with an imported Roam JSON package are worse with the Github repository. This time all the files disappear when Logseq syncs.

So my biggest issues are with pages I made in a fresh new graph (repository) and also when importing a Roam JSON package. I hope I am making sense. I am neither a programmer nor a technical expert when it comes to computer software. I could be doing something wrong, but I don't know what to do to find out. Any clues? Should I post this to the Logseq forum?

Luhmann wrote:

What is the issue you have with Dropbox? I know a lot of people are
using it with Dropbox...

Darren McDonald wrote:

>I find that the major issue I have with the Logseq is using it for a
>depository with Dropbox which is accessed from the home and work
>computers. I am sure this will be rectified with time.

Seems something isn't right. Should post this in the forum, or for a quicker response perhaps in the official Discord channel. As far as the deleted pages showing up on the other computer - you probably need to do a re-index (from the drop down menu) to get the iMac to register the changes. The last update greatly sped up re-indexing so that should help, but the need to occasionally re-index changes from another computer will probably persist until they offer their own paid sync solution (as Obsidian has done).

Darren McDonald wrote:

@Luhmann, I was actually working with Logseq today and discovered the
problem is not just with Dropbox.

Basically, when I change the name of a page using "rename" in the
pull-down menu, it creates a new page and leaves the old page intact.
You only discover this when you view "all pages" to see the list of
pages. This results in a long list of unwanted pages and gets rather
confusing.

Also, when I delete unwanted pages from a Roam JSON package that I
imported into Logseq, the pages reappear when I open Logseq on my iMac
at home. I made sure to sync and close Logseq before logging off and
opening Logseq on another computer. I am using the Mac desktop version.
I tried the online version using my space on Github (repository). The
issues with an imported Roam JSON package are worse with the Github
repository. This time all the files disappear when Logseq syncs.

So my biggest issues are with pages I made in a fresh new graph
(repository) and also when importing a Roam JSON package. I hope I am
making sense. I am neither a programmer nor a technical expert when it
comes to computer software. I could be doing something wrong, but I
don't know what to do to find out. Any clues? Should I post this to the
Logseq forum?

Thanks for the advice, @Luhmann. I see that you are also active on the forum at Logseq offering really useful tips and troubleshooting. Great to know I am amongst such awesomeness! :)

Luhmann wrote:

Seems something isn't right. Should post this in the forum, or for a
quicker response perhaps in the official Discord channel. As far as the
deleted pages showing up on the other computer - you probably need to do
a re-index (from the drop down menu) to get the iMac to register the
changes. The last update greatly sped up re-indexing so that should
help, but the need to occasionally re-index changes from another
computer will probably persist until they offer their own paid sync
solution (as Obsidian has done).

Darren McDonald wrote:
@Luhmann, I was actually working with Logseq today and discovered the
>problem is not just with Dropbox.
>
>Basically, when I change the name of a page using "rename" in the
>pull-down menu, it creates a new page and leaves the old page intact.
>You only discover this when you view "all pages" to see the list of
>pages. This results in a long list of unwanted pages and gets rather
>confusing.
>
>Also, when I delete unwanted pages from a Roam JSON package that I
>imported into Logseq, the pages reappear when I open Logseq on my iMac
>at home. I made sure to sync and close Logseq before logging off and
>opening Logseq on another computer. I am using the Mac desktop version.
>I tried the online version using my space on Github (repository). The
>issues with an imported Roam JSON package are worse with the Github
>repository. This time all the files disappear when Logseq syncs.
>
>So my biggest issues are with pages I made in a fresh new graph
>(repository) and also when importing a Roam JSON package. I hope I am
>making sense. I am neither a programmer nor a technical expert when it
>comes to computer software. I could be doing something wrong, but I
>don't know what to do to find out. Any clues? Should I post this to the
>Logseq forum?
>

After having put my whole life into Logseq, I am very eager to see it survive! But I don't think I need to worry, the developers are moving very quickly. The latest version might even address the issue I raised above? "File changes from the disk are not refreshed immediately in logseq" is marked as "fixed"... You might want to test it again to see if sync works better now?

Indeed, the developers certainly move fast! The latest update came through this morning when I started up the app (version 0.3.5) and the issue is now fixed! :) I was toying with Logseq all day today, getting a lot of work done in preparation for fieldwork.

I have a lot of suggestions for new features and improvements on existing features. Most of what I want to suggest already seems to have been submitted by other folks. For instance, the new feature request for a sidebar https://discuss.logseq.com/t/content-bar-on-left-side-and-page-breadcrumbs-on-top/121

I am also trying set up my Zotero account within Logseq. But as of yet, I am have been unable to find a step-by-step guide in how to obtain the necessary information from Zotero to input into Loseq. Do you have any guidance in this area @Luhmann?

Great to see the Discord community so active and helping. Though I am new to Discord and I am having a really difficult time trying to follow the discussion. I much prefer the format on the Logseq Forum.

Anyway, back to work! :)

Cheers! :)

Luhmann wrote:

After having put my whole life into Logseq, I am very eager to see it
survive! But I don't think I need to worry, the developers are moving
very quickly. The latest version might even address the issue I raised
above? "File changes from the disk are not refreshed immediately in
logseq" is marked as "fixed"... You might want to test it again to see
if sync works better now?

Sorry, I am a Paperpile user, and so still not very familiar with Zotero - I've considered switching just to have tighter integration with Logseq, but with over 6000 references stored in paperpile migrating to a new system isn't something one does lightly...

What would be the closest alternative to Roam that could be run exclusively online, from a browser, the smoothest possible way (or at least on par with Roam)?

I'm a Chromebook user, and so I'd prefer to use an online alternative to Roam, ideally being able to save my files to Google Drive.

I know that many of these alternatives were created to provide an offline version of Roam, but I actually have the opposite need.

Even on a Windows machine I'd prefer to access it via Chrome, unless there is a compelling reason to use a Windows client.

An Android app would be a bonus.

Fingers crossed, there is such a thing?

For a web-based alternative, I would suggest Notabase.io, which was only just launched. No mobile app yet. And here are some other alternatives:

- Hypernotes comes pretty close. It has many of Roam's key features, although the UI for managing pages is quite different. Import and export options are limited, although basic Markdown export has finally been implemented (as a single file).
- RemNote feels quite different, but it's very powerful and has many of the same key features.
- Amplenote is more note-based than bullet-based, but it is somewhat Roam-like and has Roam import.
- Reflect.app will probably be a very good alternative soon, but it is still lacking in features.

Dr Andus wrote:

What would be the closest alternative to Roam that could be run
exclusively online, from a browser, the smoothest possible way (or at
least on par with Roam)?

Hi Dr Andus, I am in a very similar situation and I am currently experimenting with logseq using the web UI at https://logseq.com connected to a private Github repo. As mentioned in another thread I started last week (https://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/9630/0/browser-only-outliner-note-taker logseq's developers might deprecated the Github backend and replace it with another solution. So far, I'm very happy with this setup and it fulfills all my requirements.

I've personally chosen logseq because it is open source, it stores all files in markdown, and it has an active, vibrant community.

Cheers,

Jerome

Dr. Andrus,

I would also recommend checking out Organizedly:

https://www.organized.ly

It is similar to Amplenote, but has a less cluttered interface. It is still a work in progress, but has come a long way in the past few months.

Steve

Thanks for all the suggestions, will check them out.

I forgot to mention that although I want to be able to use the Roam alternative online, it's important for me to be able to either host the files on Google Drive or have an automatic daily export of human readible text files to Google Drive (such as Dynalist does). I'd prefer not to have to subscribe to Dropbox or OneDrive. I do have a Box account with quite a bit of capacity that I haven't found a use for, so I could use that too.

I'd like something as similar to Roam as possible in terms of the automatic daily page, the transclusion of individual blocks, the automatic backlinks, the functionality of the panes, so I can reconstruct the exact same task management system I've developed for myself in Roam.

Logseq does look extremely similar, but I was wondering whether it's possible to just save the files straight into Google Drive and operate it from there, while using Logseq as the interface in a browser from across multiple computers (I switch between Chromebooks and a Windows laptop all the day long, and so I like to manage my todos from Roam in the browser of whichever machine I'm on).

Thanks again.

I switched from Roam to Logseq about six months ago and never regretted my decision, however I don't think it will be right for you. There are two versions of Logseq: a browser based version and a desktop version. The browser based version stores files in Github and is being depreciated in favor of the desktop version which stores files in local storage. So while you can use OneDrive for the desktop version, it does not run in the browser. The only workaround would be to use Github to sync your GoogleDrive folder to github and use the browser based version. There are scripts for this, and the browser based version still works (for now), but might be less than ideal for you.



Dr Andus wrote:

Thanks for all the suggestions, will check them out.

I forgot to mention that although I want to be able to use the Roam
alternative online, it's important for me to be able to either host the
files on Google Drive or have an automatic daily export of human
readible text files to Google Drive (such as Dynalist does). I'd prefer
not to have to subscribe to Dropbox or OneDrive. I do have a Box account
with quite a bit of capacity that I haven't found a use for, so I could
use that too.

I'd like something as similar to Roam as possible in terms of the
automatic daily page, the transclusion of individual blocks, the
automatic backlinks, the functionality of the panes, so I can
reconstruct the exact same task management system I've developed for
myself in Roam.

Logseq does look extremely similar, but I was wondering whether it's
possible to just save the files straight into Google Drive and operate
it from there, while using Logseq as the interface in a browser from
across multiple computers (I switch between Chromebooks and a Windows
laptop all the day long, and so I like to manage my todos from Roam in
the browser of whichever machine I'm on).

Thanks again.

Luhmann wrote:

I switched from Roam to Logseq about six months ago and never regretted
my decision, however I don't think it will be right for you. There are
two versions of Logseq: a browser based version and a desktop version.
The browser based version stores files in Github and is being
depreciated in favor of the desktop version which stores files in local
storage. So while you can use OneDrive for the desktop version, it does
not run in the browser. The only workaround would be to use Github to
sync your GoogleDrive folder to github and use the browser based
version. There are scripts for this, and the browser based version still
works (for now), but might be less than ideal for you.

@Luhmann

Many thanks for your input. Yes, this is the kind of thing I was wondering about.

From their About page I see that they say "Currently, we only support syncing through Github, more options (e.g. Gitlab, Dropbox, Google Drive, WebDAV, etc.) will be added soon." https://logseq.com/blog/about

If this is where it's heading, then I'd be willing to wait for these sync options.

I saw people on Youtube discussing the Github option, but it's not clear to me whether the sync is automatic or one needs to remember to push or pull changes, and I also saw someone saying that sync conflicts will definitely happen, which is not something I'd want to have to deal with.

Can you paste images as easily into Logseq as one can do in Roam, WorkFlowy and Dynalist these days? That would be another consideration, though could live without it (and use some kind of other hosting option for images).

Otherwise Logseq looks very good, almost perfect for what I'm looking for.

Jerome wrote:

Hi Dr Andus, I am in a very similar situation and I am currently
experimenting with logseq using the web UI at https://logseq.com
connected to a private Github repo.

Hello Jerome,

I'd be interested in hearing more about your experience using Github. Have you been able to sync across multiple computers? Is it manual or automatic?

I don't know much about Github, so I'd have to educate myself from scratch, which it a bit of a disincentive (I did set up an account once, wanting to use it for plaintext blogging, but I never found the time to get it going).

I personally use the desktop version with iCloud sync, so I'm not sure I can answer your questions. I think the web page might be a bit out of date. (Development is happening so fast.) You might want to join the Logseq discord channel (linked from their homepage), as there are definitely people with similar workflows there that can help you.

I don't use many images, but when I have it seems fairly easy.

Dr Andus wrote:

Luhmann wrote:
I switched from Roam to Logseq about six months ago and never regretted
>my decision, however I don't think it will be right for you. There are
>two versions of Logseq: a browser based version and a desktop version.
>The browser based version stores files in Github and is being
>depreciated in favor of the desktop version which stores files in local
>storage. So while you can use OneDrive for the desktop version, it does
>not run in the browser. The only workaround would be to use Github to
>sync your GoogleDrive folder to github and use the browser based
>version. There are scripts for this, and the browser based version
still
>works (for now), but might be less than ideal for you.

@Luhmann

Many thanks for your input. Yes, this is the kind of thing I was
wondering about.

From their About page I see that they say "Currently, we only support
syncing through Github, more options (e.g. Gitlab, Dropbox, Google
Drive, WebDAV, etc.) will be added soon." https://logseq.com/blog/about

If this is where it's heading, then I'd be willing to wait for these
sync options.

I saw people on Youtube discussing the Github option, but it's not clear
to me whether the sync is automatic or one needs to remember to push or
pull changes, and I also saw someone saying that sync conflicts will
definitely happen, which is not something I'd want to have to deal with.

Can you paste images as easily into Logseq as one can do in Roam,
WorkFlowy and Dynalist these days? That would be another consideration,
though could live without it (and use some kind of other hosting option
for images).

Otherwise Logseq looks very good, almost perfect for what I'm looking
for.

I notice that the blog page linked above is not found on the official Logseq homepage anymore. Here are is they link they have instead for official documentation.

https://logseq.github.io/