Hi, I checker which of my beloved outliners would pass away if I upgraded to the latest OS system :
hère goes :
64 bits (so, should be ok, although Aperture is 64 bits but will be killed by Apple if the OS is upgraded...)

- [ ] WriteRoom 3.3.0
- [ ] VoodooPad 5.3.0
- [ ] Simplenote 1.1.8
- [ ] OmniOutliner Essentials 5.4.2
- [ ] nvAlt 2.2.8
- [ ] Notes 4.6
- [ ] NotePlan 2.0.19
- [ ] NotePlan 1.6.30
- [ ] Notebooks 2;0
- [ ] Notational Velocity 2.0.ݛƒ5
- [ ] Neo 1.1.1
- [ ] MacJournal 6.2.1

those who will leave us
- [ ] Mori
- [ ] Opal
- [ ] Journler
- [ ] TopXNotes
- [ ] TopXNotes 2

Any thoughts? I am surprised Notational Velocity is 64 bits (so early! If accurate, this is remarkable)

My mistake, I just found there is a 64 bits compatible version of Opal (http://a-sharp.com/opal/download.html

The interesting thing is that they didn't *have* to do kill 32-bit apps; Windows hasn't and probably never will. Apple did it because, you know, Apple.

Sure you can avoid upgrading to Catalina -- for now -- but at some point you've gotta make a decision to move on; either from those apps or from Apple itself.

For me, I choose the latter. Not because of Catalina but because of the butterfly keyboard on their macbooks. Any company that would deliberately do that to their customers -- including me -- is a company that I will never give more money to. Ever. For any product.

As far as the 32-bit sendoff goes, the one that I will really miss is Inspiration. It's an outliner/mind map app that I use all the time -- and have for many (many) years -- because it's familiar, does everything that I want/need and is cross-platform. The Windows version, of course, still works fine.

That's an odd list - it includes apps for which Catalina-compatible updates are available (Simplenote, Omnioutliner, Notebooks, MacJournal are ones I'm aware of).

Does this purport to be a list of apps that don't work? Or apps that may exhibit some issues?

NickG wrote:

That's an odd list - it includes apps for which Catalina-compatible
updates are available (Simplenote, Omnioutliner, Notebooks, MacJournal
are ones I'm aware of).

Does this purport to be a list of apps that don't work? Or apps that may
exhibit some issues?

Well, he wrote "64 bits (so, should be ok...". Does that answer your question?

Franz Grieser wrote:

Well, he wrote "64 bits (so, should be ok...". Does that answer your
question?

Yes, thanks - somehow my eyes completely missed that (somewhat critical) line!

If I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't have installed Catalina on my office Mac (I didn't on any other Macs). The revised iTunes (now called Music) doesn't seem to be compatible with iPods (I have three), and doesn't work with some of my audio editing apps. In the past, Apple was pretty good about having OSX upgrades that didn't disrupt my status quo. I have picked up about 80gb on my work Mac due to uninstalling anything that seems to not be compatible with Catalina yet. Agenda, Tinderbox, Omni products all seem okay.

Listerene wrote:

The interesting thing is that they didn't *have* to do kill 32-bit apps;
Windows hasn't and probably never will. Apple did it because, you know,
Apple.

Microsoft does not get 30% on all upgrade purchases.
Thats why you wont find any Apple systems in government agencies.

Not universally true. The US gov't agencies where I've consulted all permit Apple computers, albeit Windows dominates because Office. Almost all use Apple phones and iPads. Microsoft is no angel when it comes to software fees.

Lothar Scholz wrote:

Microsoft does not get 30% on all upgrade purchases.
Thats why you wont find any Apple systems in government agencies.

Microsoft might not be an "angel" but they don't go out of their way to screw their users and, yes, Apple's denying OS upgrades to older machines and the 32-bit apocalypse says that Apple DOES go out of its way to screw its users.

Got a 2011 Windows machine loaded with 32-bit apps? No problem, says the latest version of Windows 10.

Got a 2011 mac with 32-bit apps? You're out of luck, my friend, and you'll have to get along with an unsupported OS OR -- and this is what Apple wants -- give Apple a bunch of money for a new machine ... while finding replacements for the 32-bit apps.

Don't try to conflate MS & Apple on this because they are not equal, at all.

Try to work with Microsoft corporate sales. You're opinion will change.

Listerene wrote:

Microsoft might not be an "angel" but they don't go out of their way to
screw their users and, yes,

Yes sir. Will do so, sir.

Don't try to conflate MS & Apple on this because they are not equal, at
all.

This is all because Apple is moving away from dependence on Intel chips, no other reason. This was a long time in coming.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/24/why-apples-macs-can-now-ditch-intel-x86

There are a number of good reasons to do so. They have been telling developers to update for years, it is the fault of developers if they still haven't updated. In my case there were no apps that were a problem for me that weren't updated soon after the new OS came out.

This Apple goes ARM is a stupid rumor, it hurts my brain everytime i read it.

Apple has nothing to ever drive the iMacPro and MacPro with ARM. For emulation they would need twice the performance and twice the performance per core to match the highspeed Intel Chips. A13 was no real speed improvement over A12 so they did not show benchmarks. They have hit the limit. ARM is still a factor 10x away from being competitive with Intel on high end Workstations. ARM doesn't scale, all the server attempts have proven this over and over in the last 15 years. And i'm not even talking about the laughable IO performance of the Apple ARM chipsets. Good enough for a phone but not a workstation or a high end notebook with high end graphics card.

So many crazy conspiracy people without knowledge of fundamental system architecture.

Well, they might not replace Intel altogether, but simply supplement them for certain features:

https://www.cultofmac.com/465175/apple-developing-custom-mac-chips-wont-replace-intel/

In any case, I think the idea that they are doing this just to get profits from upgrade fees is even more absurd.... For a number of reasons, but mostly because very few people I know had any apps that needed paid upgrades.

Thanks for the warning about Catalina.

I am a happy owner of a Fujitsu ScanSnap S1500M. Now I found this info on their website (https://www.fujitsu.com/global/support/products/computing/peripheral/scanners/scansnap/faq/s1500-catalina.html

ScanSnap S1500/S1500M Compatibility Status With macOS 10.15 Catalina:
The ScanSnap software (*) is not available on macOS 10.15 Catalina. To keep using your ScanSnap, use it on the current version of macOS. When you >update your macOS, please consider purchasing a ScanSnap that is currently available.
Details
The ScanSnap software (*) is not available on the macOS as it does not support any 32-bit applications.（No further updates will be provided to the ScanSnap software.）
If you will use macOS 10.13 or earlier, you can keep using ScanSnap S1500/S1500M on the OS.
When you use macOS 10.14 or later, please consider purchasing a ScanSnap that is currently available.

These things make me angry ...

Reports are that macOS 10.15 has issues. I am holding off upgrading until it is more stable. I used to a third party tester to check that Hyper Plan runs Ok on 10.15, so that I didn't have to upgrade my development machine.

Andy Brice
http://www.hyperplan.com

I'm also none too happy about Fujitsu dropping ScanSnap support for older scanners, but the S1500/S1500M is supported by a lot of good third-party scanning tools like VueScan, so that's an option if you do choose to upgrade.

--Chris

Patrick Rentsch wrote:

Thanks for the warning about Catalina.

I am a happy owner of a Fujitsu ScanSnap S1500M. Now I found this info
on their website
(https://www.fujitsu.com/global/support/products/computing/peripheral/scanners/scansnap/faq/s1500-catalina.html

>ScanSnap S1500/S1500M Compatibility Status With macOS 10.15 Catalina:
>The ScanSnap software (*) is not available on macOS 10.15 Catalina. To
keep using your ScanSnap, use it on the current version of macOS. When
you >update your macOS, please consider purchasing a ScanSnap that is
currently available.
>Details
>The ScanSnap software (*) is not available on the macOS as it does not
support any 32-bit applications.（No further updates will be
provided to the ScanSnap software.）
>If you will use macOS 10.13 or earlier, you can keep using ScanSnap
S1500/S1500M on the OS.
>When you use macOS 10.14 or later, please consider purchasing a
ScanSnap that is currently available.

These things make me angry ...

Thanks Chris, I'll have a look at VueScan.

Chris Thompson wrote:

I'm also none too happy about Fujitsu dropping ScanSnap support for
older scanners, but the S1500/S1500M is supported by a lot of good
third-party scanning tools like VueScan, so that's an option if you do
choose to upgrade.

--Chris

Catalina is causing issues on quite a number of forums. My concern is more due to the growing lockout from the core of my own system. Every update makes it harder to access the core of my macos.

In terms of upgrading the old adage of don't fix what isn't broken applies. Because apple offer the OS upgrade for free, somehow people feel they need to upgrade. My experience is that each new macos is buggier than the one before. When I used Tiger there was rarely a beachball, now I see them all the time. Also things like Facetime just don't work consistently. The camera often refuses to come on without a restart. I read a recent report that stated apple now have a 48% markup on their products. I'm not sure I'll be able to afford a new one when the time comes and am already thinking about what I'll do (certainly not microsoft). Might need to try a Hackintosh or Linux.

MacSE wrote:

Hi, I checker which of my beloved outliners would pass away if I
upgraded to the latest OS system :
hère goes :
64 bits (so, should be ok, although Aperture is 64 bits but will be
killed by Apple if the OS is upgraded...)

- [ ] WriteRoom 3.3.0
- [ ] VoodooPad 5.3.0
- [ ] Simplenote 1.1.8
- [ ] OmniOutliner Essentials 5.4.2
- [ ] nvAlt 2.2.8
- [ ] Notes 4.6
- [ ] NotePlan 2.0.19
- [ ] NotePlan 1.6.30
- [ ] Notebooks 2;0
- [ ] Notational Velocity 2.0.ݛƒ5
- [ ] Neo 1.1.1
- [ ] MacJournal 6.2.1

those who will leave us
- [ ] Mori
- [ ] Opal
- [ ] Journler
- [ ] TopXNotes
- [ ] TopXNotes 2

Any thoughts? I am surprised Notational Velocity is 64 bits (so early!
If accurate, this is remarkable)

It looks like the vendor is working on getting TopXNotes 2 to 64 bit ...https://www.tropic4.com/64-bitFAQ.html