Although I have several different mind mapping programs (Mind Manager, Mind Genius, Inspiration, FreeMind and Axon) I don't feel that any of them really what I am looking for. All of them are excellent in their own way, but I none have found a place in "my comfort zone"

Any one got suggestions of what else I should look at.

Thanks,

Graham

Hi Graham,

I regularly use MindManager and have used FreeMind in the past. The other program I have is PersonaBrain http://www.thebrain.com I have also tried Cmaps (http://cmap.ihmc.us/ These are more 'concept' maps rather than pure mind maps, for when the 'central idea & branches' layout doesn't match what you want to do.

Regards,
Nigel

I think mindmapping in a literal sense should not be restrictive, but Tony Buzan trademarked mindmappers are essentially only radial trees. IMHO this is a clever marketing strategy because it can attract many users with only a few keywords: mindmap, radial thinking, left right brain (non-scientific claim (see Wikipedia/mindmap)). You can of course fill the screen in any graphics program (like Visio or SmartDraw) where you can map processes better.
Another thing I find disturbing in mindmappers are the thick underlines below the text. I learnt in Information Design that text underlines should be used only sparsely, an example of a table was given: Compare the readability of a table having black cell borders with light colored borders. But mindmappers with their radial trees are more or less forced to use underlines to visualize the tree relation. The first thing I would do as mindmap user is to lighten up the branch colors if possible. In conventional trees indents are sufficient. Since those mindmappers are trees (hierarchies), I think comparing their feature list with those of conventional outliners would be appropriate.

Nigel

I regularly use MindManager and have used FreeMind in the past. The other
program I have is PersonaBrain http://www.thebrain.com I have also tried Cmaps
(http://cmap.ihmc.us/

Thanks, I have tried these in the past, but certainly in the case of PersonalBrain, some time ago. I shall give it another look, but I suspect that part of my problem is not really defining what I want from the porgram as most of these programs go well beyond Mind Mapping and stray into diagrammimg, time management and information management.

Graham

I think mindmapping in a literal sense should not be restrictive,

I think this is part of my problem as my main use of mind mapping is the idea processing/brain stormimg approach introduced by Tony Buzan back in the 1960s, which is still what I associate as Mind Mapping. This needs something that works very quickly, and for that I find Inspiration very good. The other aspect is the use of distinctive visual images to help remembering the map, if it is being used as an aid to memory

However Mind Mapping programs have extended well beyond that, and indeed the concept of mind mapping is being used to describe a type of diagram rather than a type of thinking process. This has led Mind mapping programs becoming diagramming programs and information managers and often making them fairly useless as mind mapping programs. I think this is the motivation behind the Tony Buzan approval system.

It is also part of the problem I am having with Mind Mapping programs, what I want for pure mind mapping isn't what I want when it comes to presenting a diagram in a mind map "style" But the better diagramming based tools tend to be poorer mind mapping programs.

Graham

The idea of mind mapping is seductive, but in practice I've never found it very effective for me. I suspect it is a process that may have more applicability when working in a group brainstorming session, which keeps everyone on the same page.

My other issue with most of these programs is that they are so expensive. I suspect this is due to the fact that they consider their major markets to be businesses, where price is less of an issue. One such program that seems fairly full-featured, but which costs only $44 US is Mind Chart:

http://www.avant4u.com/us/feat_busi_ed.htm

I wonder if anyone has given it much of a try and, if so, what they think of it.

Steve Z.

Steve,

The idea of mind mapping is seductive, but in practice I've never found it very
effective for me.

I find it useful for particular applications. Initial brainstorming and when I want a one page overview of something - such as a lecture where I can scan my entire lecture with a single glance.

I have also found it useful, as you suggest, at meetings where it is easier to add thoughts as they occur than it is with a linear approach.

My other issue with most of these programs is that they are so expensive.

As I already have licenses for several programs, this isn't a particular issue for me, but I generally agree.

But Freemind is fine for the basic mind mapping task.

http://www.avant4u.com/us/feat_busi_ed.htm

I
wonder if anyone has given it much of a try and, if so, what they think of it.

I have no experience of this.

Thanks,

Graham

Steve Z.

Over on the Yahoo Groups site StephenD mentioned another possible program (VisiMap, a UK developer) and asked for comments from users. I contacted the developer to see whether he wanted to contribute to the discussion, but he hasn't done so yet. Maybe the product is not being actively developed any more.

Derek

Derek

Over on the Yahoo Groups site StephenD mentioned another possible program (VisiMap,
a UK developer) and asked for comments from users.

Visimap was the first Mind Mapping program I owned, and one of the first programs I bought when I got my first PC well over 10 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago. But it seems to have been stuck at version 4 for as long as I can remember and the web site seems to also have remained unchanged for years.

Interesting you haven't had a reply, which tends to support the idea that they maybe have moved onto other things.

Graham

Graham,

Have you ever looked at B-Liner? It has intrigued me, but I never wanted to spend the $145 US to get it. It has lots of different uses, but for brainstorming it seems to have a nice clean interface. My one concern at this point would be that it appears not to have been updated in four years. Anyway, if you haven't looked at B-Liner you might want to check it out:

www.bliner.com

Steve Z.

Have you ever looked at B-Liner?

Indeed I have and I bought a license for it some years ago. A very clever program, but its more of diagramming program than a mind mapping program with some clever project management tools.

But it wouldn't allow me to replace the $ sign with a £ sign and it only worked with US style dates. The company showed little interest in this issue and some years later when a ne w version came out and email asking about upgrade prices and whether the new version would help with these two problems, was not replied to.

I have now long lost the registration details, but if the web site had showed me that it was now B-Liner 2006, I might still be interested in trying it again, but as it is still stuck at B-Liner 2002, then I think I will give it a miss.

Shame because it is a unique program and potentially very useful.

Graham

A.Research wrote:

I think mindmapping in a literal sense should not be restrictive, but Tony Buzan
trademarked mindmappers are essentially only radial trees.

Not sure what you mean by "literal sense." The main thing I hate about "mind mapping" is my need to always put the phrase in quotes or substitute terms like radial outline and then accepting the risk that people won't know what I'm talking about. To me, the term is just stupid. It isn't a map of the mind. To the limited extent that it is a map at all, it is a map of whatever it purports to be dealing with. The very phrase evokes some crude version of Bishop Berkeley's fallacy.

Then there's the counterposing of mind map's to hierarchies, where "mind maps" actuall enforce a stricter hierarchy than outlines, as each branch must be subordinated to a single ultimate element at the center.

Graham Smith wrote:

Although I have several different mind mapping programs (Mind Manager, Mind Genius,
Inspiration, FreeMind and Axon) I don't feel that any of them really what I am looking
for. All of them are excellent in their own way, but I none have found a place in "my
comfort zone"

Any one got suggestions of what else I should look

In subsequent posts you clarify what you are looking for. I see why the programs you mention are unsatisfactory. I agree they try to do too much, at least for my purposes too. The program I had been using is Visual-Mind. I think it is faster in its approach to entry than the programs you list, certainly the ones that require an additional use of the Enter key to create a branch. (MindManager and FreeMind.) Axon would be downright cumbersome. In fairness, it is intended for greater things.

I have recently started using Visi-Map. I am still uncertain if it is undergoing development. They do collect crash data, so fixes for any bugs discovered could be fortchcoming. Version 4 has had 3 updates directed to that purpose. My best guess is it on a slow development path. I see various programs that have not been updated for a couple of years and it is unclear whether they will be updated further. They talk as if they intend to, but maybe it is more like they hope funds will be available for that purpose. Perhaps BrainStorm is an example of a program that now fits that description.

The sharp drop in price of VisiMap (it now goes for $35 for non-business use) is probably not a good sign for future development. But unlike the program Visual Concept that I've tried, VisiMap seems to me to be a mature program, better thought out in its details than any of the competing programs I have seen. It also seems quite stable, unlike Visual Mind.

I think Buzan was onto something when he noticed the particular usability of radial outlines for core outlining. On the other hand, some of the factors he emphasized have struck me as pure distraction. I do not think the use of color automatically interests the brain to justify gratuitous coloration. Color can help when used for some classificatory end. The plain diagrams in Visi-Map have been more conducive to thought than gaudier displays. I have the sense that Visi-Map was intended for users more like me than the other programs. This, it has to be admitted, creates an artificial element of sympathy with the program, going outside actual usability.

Since you know Visi-Map, I would suggest you check out Visual-Mind.

Stephen

To me, the term is just stupid. It isn't a map of the mind. To the limited extent that it is a
map at all, it is a map of whatever it purports to be dealing with.

Have you read Tony Buzan, and how the concept of mind maps evolved?

Graham

Interesting topic Graham

I do my brainstorming in text mode, using an outlining program. However, I do find it useful to then switch the view to a graphical one and observe the connections and patterns. I might edit a little in graphical mode and then go back to text.

Consequently, the ability to toggle between so-called outliner text and mind map is important for me.

So far, I'm aware of only 2 programs that do this in a more than rudimentary way - Mind Manager (version 6) and Inspiration. I would dearly love to use Inspiration but it is a bit clunky and really designed for another market. So I use Mind Manager - a behemoth for sure.

I'm interested in other programs that have this toggling ability.

Jack

Steve D. said, "Then there’s the counterposing of mind map’s to hierarchies, where “mind maps” actuall enforce a stricter hierarchy than outlines, as each branch must be subordinated to a single ultimate element at the center."

While I do not use mind mappers, I'd like to point out that in Personal Brain, ANY node can become the " ... ultimate element at the center."

Years ago, I suggested to the developer that it add an option that allows the inclusion of a direction arrow on any link between nodes. At the time, it indicated no interest, but a couple of years later I was told that the "corporate" version now had that option. I do not know if it is in personal brain.

My interest in "The Brain" is its usefulness in diagramming a system, such as all the parts/functions of a government agency. Any part of the system can make its node "the center" and see the rest of the system from its perspective.

-c

Stephen

In subsequent posts you clarify what you are looking for.

In truth I am not sure what I am looking for, as I do use many of the other features for other things, but my requirements for mind mapping are very simple as I don't find a mind mapping aproach to "everything" all that useful, and I fail to see the appeal of large mind maps.

I think Buzan was onto something when
he noticed the particular usability of radial outlines for core outlining. On the
other hand, some of the factors he emphasized have struck me as pure distraction. I do
not think the use of color automatically interests the brain to justify gratuitous
coloration.

I think the emphaisis on colour and pictures is based on aiding memory, as Buzans real interest is in learning and memory. However, like you, I find them more of a distraction and don't use them - but maybe we are both wrong :-)

Since you know Visi-Map, I would suggest you check
out Visual-Mind.

Its actually years since i used Visi-Map, but based on your comments, I think I will revisit Visi-Map and have a look at Visual Mind.

Thanks,

Graham

Graham Smith wrote:

Have you read Tony Buzan, and how the concept of mind maps evolved?

No.I did read the Wikipedia article on mindmapping yesterday.(Someone in this forum had posted a reference.) I gathered from that article that they were called mindmaps before Buzan. It also seemed to be implied that the name might have come from the fact that radial outlines had as one of their typical uses displaying some kind of mental associative structure, in which case I suppose _those_ maps would be mindmaps. Does Buzan present a different account?

Jack

I do my brainstorming in text mode, using an outlining
program. However, I do find it useful to then switch the view to a graphical one and
observe the connections and patterns. I might edit a little in graphical mode and then
go back to text.

I suspect I am rather similar in this respect, in that I find myself doing a lot of thinking in advance of booting up the computer. If by the time I get to the computer I have a basic set of ideas worked out, then I find an outliner is the tool I want to use, but I still like the visual over view of the mind map.

On the other hand, if my pre-boot up thinking session has failed to give me a basic idea of how to approach what I am writing, then I find a mind map the best brainstorming tool

So far, I'm aware of only 2 programs that do this
in a more than rudimentary way - Mind Manager (version 6) and Inspiration. I would
dearly love to use Inspiration but it is a bit clunky and really designed for another
market. So I use Mind Manager - a behemoth for sure.

Well, conicidence you will see from my list that I tend to use the same two program. There is a lot to like about Inspiration, and I have the Palm version as well, but as you suggest it has its issues. MindManager is probably the best compromise that I have found so far, but its slow to launch and heavy on resources.

Graham

Cassius wrote:

While I do not use mind
mappers, I'd like to point out that in Personal Brain, ANY node can become the " ...
ultimate element at the center."

Maybe I should look at PersonalBrain, but it would seem to me the significance of being able to look at things from various centers depends on there being the possibility of various centers. I mean, if you took PersonalBrain and built within it a strictly hierarchical outline--one and only one element that everything else ultimately falls under--being able to look at things from different vantage points could only mean being able to center on non-central branches. (Something like a hoist.) I gather that in PB, however, you can construct any kind of web, so nothing is necessarily central and nothing is necessarily ultimate. You can do this also with an outline structure that allows the most liberal cloning of topics, as in UltraRecall. If I'm not completely off base, PersonalBrain has more affinity with certain outliners than with mindmapping in the strict sense.

Graham Smith wrote:

I
think the emphaisis on colour and pictures is based on aiding memory, as Buzans real
interest is in learning and memory. However, like you, I find them more of a
distraction and don't use them - but maybe we are both wrong :-)

Visi-Map has an auto-coloring option that I sometimes do use. It simply applies one of eight colors, in sequence, to each main subtree. I don't know if that helps with anything significant, but I don't find it distracts because it merely reinforces the branch structure. Maybe sometimes that's good, sometimes not, but it's an option.

Visi-Map may not be doing great commercially because the trend in mindmapping, it seems to me, is to create diagrams more like what one might draw. Hand-drawn mindmaps seem to be regarded by many as the gold standard, and computer-created maps a second-best expedient. The more ways to individualize the look of the map, for the most avid mindmapping enthusiast, the better.

Whereas my personal take is that mindmapping only became particularly useful with its computerization. I admit, I haven't read Buzan much, so there's a good chance I'm missing something in the conventional process. But my overwhelming impression is that the process of mind-mapping would be horrendously difficult with pencil and paper. I mean, how would you relocate a branch? Do you erase, having made your mark with colored pencil? Cross-out; hardly producing a visually compelling result; or what?

So the upshot is that I go for programs that do as much automatically as possible. What I don't like about Inspiration is that it forces you to do to much, which may actually be good for educational purposes.

Stephen

Does Buzan present a different account?

Not especially, but the wikipedia account doesn't really explain how Buzan came to supporting this approach through his studies into memory and learning.

Although a bit pseudo-scientific the televison series he did many years ago was impressive where he demonstrated that the more bizarre the mind map (colours and pictures) the better people were able to remember things. However, in that particular example he was using mind maps as a learning tool or a tool for taking lecture notes.

I still think of "MindMaps" in the fairly restrictive manner presentedby Buzan in the early days rather than the all encompassing radial diagramming business tool it seems to have become, even though they may well present the diagram in a mind map style.

Graham

Graham Smith wrot

I find it useful for particular applications. Initial
brainstorming and when I want a one page overview of something - such as a lecture where
I can scan my entire lecture with a single glance.

My usage is a little different. For pure brainstorming, I still most prefer BrainStorm. I find that mindmapping is useful only if I compress branch titles into tight informative phrases. That is an analytic process that takes me outside brainstorming.

I use mindmapping to explore and clarify the relationship between the items I have brainstormed, If I employ brainstorming. I find maps particularly useful to find to find gaps in information or argument. When I don't brainstorm, I might write thoughts in the notes pane of a branch, compress that information for use in a topic, and erase the inforamiotn in the notes pane, which serves only an intermediary purpose.

Stephen

Cassius wrote:

>While I do not use mind
>mappers, I'd like to point out that in
Personal Brain, ANY node can become the " ...
>ultimate element at the center."


Maybe I should look at PersonalBrain,

Mind Genius does this as well

Graham

Graham -

Interesting you haven't had a reply, which tends to support the idea that they maybe have moved onto other things.

I got a friendly reply from the developer when I told him about the yahoo groups discussion, but he didn't subsequently take part in that discussion. As you say, that may indicate that VisiMap is on the back-burner, at the least. I notice that VisiMap's own support forum has been closed, too.

For those who know little or nothing about "mind mapping" (moi, for example), I found the comparison at http://www.cul.co.uk/software/istruct.htm to be a useful start.

Derek