It doesn't look like the folks at Dynalist have any interest in making any significant updates to their horrendous iOS app. At the same time, Outlinely seems to be getting regular updates again. So as someone who needs iOS support, the only rational decision seems to be to move back from Dynalist to Outlinely. I was also happy to see that for those of us who don't like subscriptions, there is a reasonably priced "lifetime subscription" which is a single payment of a little less than $35 to unlock iCloud sync and all restrictions on the iOS app. The only stumbling block was that while you can export and import individual OPML files one-by-one, there is no way to easily bulk import your entire Dynalist folder. However, it wasn't hard to figure out a workaround for this. I've posted the instructions here:

https://pastebin.com/pppYpAJR

I'll probably still use Dynalist for some things - especially since for teaching I often need to load outlines on a Windows computer, but I'm going to give using Outlinely as my primary outliner a try and see how that goes...

Dynalist is a decent app, but I didn't go far using it. About Outlinely: I can't believe how little attention this app has gotten. To me feels like a perfect blend of OmniOutliner, Ulysses and Bear. OmniOutliner lacks Markdown-support, Ulysses lacks text-folding and better text-annotating features (I dislike footnotes and annotations being hidden from sight), and both of them lack [[Wiki-links]] (which is pretty much all that Bear has got apart from design and layout elements). That is not to say it is without shortcomings: i. the search is nowhere near as good as Ulysses (it won't display every occurrence of the searched term); ii. text-folding is not as dynamic and quick as it can be in OmniOutliner (I can fold anywhere in omni, whereas I have to move the cursor all the way up to fold a branch in Outlinely). Also, I find it little annoying that it asks me if I really want to open a link every time I click on it. Still, my verdict after two days, is that it will become my main writing app!

Outlinely is very good, but ironically, I find I've moved the other way, from Outlinely to Dynalist. Why?

Because Outlinely is a subscription app, and I'm now trying to remove as many subscriptions as possible from my rather lengthy list.

But also: Outlinely's handling of tags is poor. It's a shame - it does so many things very well. But a tag search results in a frozen snapshot that can't be edited. Also, sub-items that aren't tagged don't appear. Whereas Dynalist takes a much more "task-oriented" approach, allowing you to view sub-items of tagged items, and allowing you to edit anything and everything while viewing the results of a tagged search.

However: I keep an eye on Outlinely, because I'm fond of it and have quite a lot of data locked up in it (that's another shortcoming: there's no quick way to export data from Outlinely!)

Cheers!
Bill

Since they (finally) fixed the iOS app, I now use Dynalist exclusively. I was lucky enough to be grandfathered in to the older subscription rate, so I pay for Dynalist Pro. I also purchased a lifetime subscription to Outlinely (an option for you if you don't want to pay a subscription), but the developer seems to develop in short bursts with long periods of inactivity. Also, the development mostly focuses on minor stuff and never fixes any of the major problems with the app.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Because Outlinely is a subscription app, and I'm now trying to remove as
many subscriptions as possible from my rather lengthy list.

Outlinely for MacOS is a one-time purchase in the App Store, the iOS app is free. Only if you need the Pro features on your iPad, you need to go the subscription road.

Sorry, Bill, my fault. Just realised that you need the Pro edition to sync between Mac and iPad.

How many people use one of these outliners (whether it's Workflowy, Outlinely, Dynalist, or even OmniOutliner) in conjunction with other PIM tools?

I feel like I "need" an outliner as part of my workflow, but I'm also extremely wary of over complicating things (which is a symptom of CRIMP after all).

JakeBernsteinWA wrote:

How many people use one of these outliners (whether it's Workflowy,
Outlinely, Dynalist, or even OmniOutliner) in conjunction with other PIM
tools?

I feel like I "need" an outliner as part of my workflow, but I'm also
extremely wary of over complicating things (which is a symptom of CRIMP
after all).

I use OmniOutliner. I used to use it as a conduit to get task information from OmniPlan to OmniFocus. I think the return journey only worked with an AppleScript. And I'm not certain that either can work now, with the latest versions of those tools.

You can set up links between OO items and DEVONthink records using "Copy as Link" commands, which in the past I've found very useful. I remember reading of OO files being able to be stored in DEVONthink databases and synced to other locations.

Whether other available outliners can duplicate this functionality, I've little idea.

I use Dynalist every day, mostly on my office PC, but not exclusively so. It is my Journal and notebook -- short notes, such as phone numbers -- at work. I also put important todos in my outline (which has a heading for each day), although I mostly rely on Todoist for keeping my running list of projects.

Steve Z.


JakeBernsteinWA wrote:

How many people use one of these outliners (whether it's Workflowy,
Outlinely, Dynalist, or even OmniOutliner) in conjunction with other PIM
tools?

I feel like I "need" an outliner as part of my workflow, but I'm also
extremely wary of over complicating things (which is a symptom of CRIMP
after all).

I try to separate out functions to different apps and thus largely avoid using Dynalist as a task manager. I use it mostly for taking notes, organizing my syllabi, and brainstorming new projects. I do use the checklist function for some quick tasks that I intend to process immediately, or for adding tasks to other outlines that I transfer to a dedicated task manager later on. I also keep some checklist templates for things like packing lists. The Dynalist roadmap includes some possible additional features for managing tasks, such as a dedicated "agenda" tab. If these get good enough I might consider using it as a task manager, but it isn't there yet.

JakeBernsteinWA wrote:

How many people use one of these outliners (whether it's Workflowy,
Outlinely, Dynalist, or even OmniOutliner) in conjunction with other PIM
tools?

I feel like I "need" an outliner as part of my workflow, but I'm also
extremely wary of over complicating things (which is a symptom of CRIMP
after all).

That's a classic issue around here: whether to use one tool only for all purposes or multiple tools for multiple uses.

There are advantages and disadvantages both ways. I'm a "many tools for multiple purposes" guy, and the downside is that some of my data does get fragmented and scattered and sometimes I use several tools for the same purpose.

But I put up with it because a) I find this situation less boring (there is a ludic aspect to switching between tools) and b) because I prefer having a specialist tool fulfill a special purpose perfectly than to have to use some kind of a workaround (or have a gap in my workflow).

There is an aspect of an internal market here, just like within Google, the company, where they can have multiple teams working on tools with overlapping functionality, and let them compete against each other (and ruthlessly killing off the losing projects).

I've been a WorkFlowy user now for many years, but I hardly ever use it as an outliner. As I work a lot within the Chrome browser, WorkFlowy is now my "digital brain," both for memory management (recurring tasks, archive) and task management and prioritisation tool.

The "Clip to WorkFlowy" Chrome extension is an essential part, as it's so handy to be able to add even URLs of emails from Outlook, so I can follow up tasks associated with specific emails weeks later, by which time I'd struggle to find the same email in Outlook among the thousands of emails there.

But yes, WorkFlowy is just one, I also use Keep for other purposes, and ConnectedText, and a few other dormant tools (Ginkgo), which I pull out when I need them.

I've been using Dynalist for some task planning when I need more more of a narrative context with notes, links to documents, as well as synchronization between Mac, Windows and iOS. Dynalist has superior tag support and search, compared to Outlinely. Dynalist's Google calendar sync is useful.

Working with action lists that have lots of subtasks, notes, as well as partially-formed concepts and plans, is difficult to do with OmniFocus or Things. OmniFocus always feels like doing time on a chain gang.

"action lists that have lots of subtasks, notes, as well as partially-formed concepts and plans"
Have you tried GoalEnforcer? You can get the Starter Edition for free at:

https://sharewareonsale.com/s/free-goalenforcer-100-discount

Safari doesn't like the linked site and throws off security warnings over here.

GoalEnforcer is actually over here.

https://www.goalenforcer.com

And, yes, I've tested it. Rather ugly; broken menus on macOS; not very functional; no sync; no iOS counterpart.

Adrian wrote:

"action lists that have lots of subtasks, notes, as well as
partially-formed concepts and plans"
Have you tried GoalEnforcer? You can get the Starter Edition for free
at:

https://sharewareonsale.com/s/free-goalenforcer-100-discount

Since this group is called Outliner Software, worth noting that the Goal Enforcer developers have a new (windows-only) outlining app:

https://www.visualoutliner.com/

I don't use windows, but I thought it worth a mention.

I just gave Visual Outliner a quick look. I'm always excited to try a new outliner, but my first impressions are not favorable. Some apps when you try them make you want to keep on going. VO made me want to flee. It feels pretty rudimentary for the most part, other than a few sort of flourishes, like The Bucket, which is a temporary place to store ideas. In practice, The Bucket seems pretty useless.

You can add start and due dates to items in your outline, but that information goes in the "Tracking" tab of the "Properties" window, and doesn't appear IN your outline at all. So you basically have to wallow around among your listings to find out what is due and when. More uselessness.

All of the buttons are grayed out, which usually indicates (at least in my experience) that they are unavailable at the time. Not so with Visual Outliner (which is kind of ironic).

And it costs $60!

Steve Z.

Luhmann wrote:

Since this group is called Outliner Software, worth noting that the Goal
Enforcer developers have a new (windows-only) outlining app:

https://www.visualoutliner.com/

I don't use windows, but I thought it worth a mention.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Outlinely is very good, but ironically, I find I've moved the other way,
from Outlinely to Dynalist. Why?

Because Outlinely is a subscription app, and I'm now trying to remove as
many subscriptions as possible from my rather lengthy list.

Fair enough, but note that Outlinely offers a "Lifetime Pro" subscription for $31.99, which, while technically still a subscription, makes it effectively rather similar to a straightforward purchase.

The Visual Outliner was designed as a minimalist blank canvas for brainstorming and thought organization. You write on it like you would if using Notepad, with the advantage that you can generate structured outlines. It also allows you to create visual containers through color and styling to emphasize the outline hierarchy.
The goal is to focus on your writing content, without the distraction of multiple columns, bells, whistles, flags, dates, emojis and other kind of visual noise. All buttons are light grey, so that they won’t bother you visually. You’ll find the Bucket very useful if you really spend some time using it.


Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I just gave Visual Outliner a quick look. I'm always excited to try a
new outliner, but my first impressions are not favorable. Some apps when
you try them make you want to keep on going. VO made me want to flee. It
feels pretty rudimentary for the most part, other than a few sort of
flourishes, like The Bucket, which is a temporary place to store ideas.
In practice, The Bucket seems pretty useless.

You can add start and due dates to items in your outline, but that
information goes in the "Tracking" tab of the "Properties" window, and
doesn't appear IN your outline at all. So you basically have to wallow
around among your listings to find out what is due and when. More
uselessness.

All of the buttons are grayed out, which usually indicates (at least in
my experience) that they are unavailable at the time. Not so with Visual
Outliner (which is kind of ironic).

And it costs $60!

Steve Z.

Luhmann wrote:
Since this group is called Outliner Software, worth noting that the Goal
>Enforcer developers have a new (windows-only) outlining app:
>
>https://www.visualoutliner.com/
>
>I don't use windows, but I thought it worth a mention.

Too fast and furious to a conclusion, slow down, slow down...

THERE ARE free Android and iOS counterparts, as well as free Cloud sync service.

Paul Korm wrote:

Safari doesn't like the linked site and throws off security warnings
over here.

GoalEnforcer is actually over here.

https://www.goalenforcer.com

And, yes, I've tested it. Rather ugly; broken menus on macOS; not very
functional; no sync; no iOS counterpart.

Adrian wrote:
"action lists that have lots of subtasks, notes, as well as
>partially-formed concepts and plans"
>Have you tried GoalEnforcer? You can get the Starter Edition for free
>at:
>
>https://sharewareonsale.com/s/free-goalenforcer-100-discount

No, not really too fast. I've had it GoalEnforcer installed here for 6 months or so and periodically turn it on to see it is useful for various tasks I'm working on. I've never found it to be so. So, I gave it an honest chance over a rather long horizon. Sorry.

Adrian wrote:

Too fast and furious to a conclusion, slow down, slow down...

I like this description a lot but have always had trouble getting into the WorkFlowy/Dynalist way of doing things. Does anyone know of a good blog post describing a thorough Dynalist use case? Kind of like what Dr Andus, Stephen Zeoli, Paul J Miller etc do on their blogs?

Paul Korm wrote:

I've been using Dynalist for some task planning when I need more more of
a narrative context with notes, links to documents, as well as
synchronization between Mac, Windows and iOS. Dynalist has superior tag
support and search, compared to Outlinely. Dynalist's Google calendar
sync is useful.

Working with action lists that have lots of subtasks, notes, as well as
partially-formed concepts and plans, is difficult to do with OmniFocus
or Things. OmniFocus always feels like doing time on a chain gang.

I read this blog post when I was considering whether to stick with Dynalist or move to something else. Made a lot of sense to me.

https://vincentntang.com/how-i-use-dynalist-io/

Thanks Paul, exactly what I was looking for.

Paul Korm wrote:

I read this blog post when I was considering whether to stick with
Dynalist or move to something else. Made a lot of sense to me.

https://vincentntang.com/how-i-use-dynalist-io/