My aging Windows 7 laptop is starting to get annoying. A cursor control key popped off, and I suppose I should see if somebody can fix that first. But it may be time to revive the old religious debate about platform. So if I buy a new laptop, what should I get? (I do have a lightweight Chromebook, but have used Macs (I like their privacy policies), Linux (pretty robust these days), and of course Windows.

My question to you all on this Friday morning (here in Chicago, anyhow): when viewed from the perspective of outlining (and you should probably say what kind of outlining matters most to you: for me, it's more about writing and daily management than comprehensive task and project management, but I'm interested in both) what platform do you think has the edge?

Or does it come down to cost? Or some other factor?

Or, with the rise of cloud and web-based outliners, does it even matter?

jaslar wrote:

it's more about
writing and daily management than comprehensive task and project
management

You may need to provide a bit more detail on what kind of writing and outlining you do, otherwise you run the risk that people will just chime in with whatever their particular preferences are.

Once you have defined your specific needs more narrowly, then it might even be possible to identify the specific piece of software and form factor (which might override the OS question).

E.g. is it about outlining and writing short pieces (e.g. for online consumption, blogging, journal entries) or large documents (theses, novels etc.)?

Then other considerations kick in, such as the need for a specialist notes database software or academic referencing software that may only be available on one OS or the other.

Pending the answer to Dr Andus' question, I think your last point is also your answer -- the cloud services are ubiquitous and so platform doesn't matter.

(FWIW, just to telegraph preferences, I am now on my fourth Mac laptop and have enjoyed them all. However, I am pretty certain that if I bought a laptop today I would buy a mid-range or low-cost Surface. Mainly because of the cloud thing. And I'm weary of macOS and it's nattering protectiveness.)

jaslar wrote:

For me, it's more about
writing and daily management than comprehensive task and project
management, but I'm interested in both) what platform do you think has
the edge?

Or, with the rise of cloud and web-based outliners, does it even matter?

Paul Korm wrote:

the cloud services are ubiquitous and so platform
doesn't matter.
I would buy a mid-range or low-cost Surface.
Mainly because of the cloud thing. And I'm weary of macOS and it's
nattering protectiveness.)

If the above were your absolute criteria and nothing else tied you to Windows, then you would really be better off going with Chrome OS, e.g. a Pixelbook (unless you are wedded to the "detachable" form factor), as a dedicated cloud device.

It would be just an incomparably better user experience. Don't believe me? Read what Surface users say about it themselves :-)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/8inqzt/just_joined_the_surface_family_bye_bye_chrome_os/

I hear you. My clients are deeply embedded in O365 and M365 enterprise implementations in the Federal cloud. Another reason, for me, to stay in the MS domain.

Dr Andus wrote:

It would be just an incomparably better user experience. Don't believe
me? Read what Surface users say about it themselves :-)

The three big questions that come to mind are as follows:

--Are you using a specific software package that requires a specific OS?
--Do you want to be cloud-based or computer-based for file storage (or both)?
--Do you have specific laptop requirements (battery life, size/weight, screen size keyboard, etc.)?

Answers to those three questions would guide me closer to my decision.

Good luck,

--Ken

Truly, Dr. Amdus, I'm fine having people reference their use cases. I often learn a lot that way.

Dynalist serves as my default work dashboard, project notes, and a work preparer. I mange and log the day's work, which then becomes a searchable database for various projects, press calls, talking points, and logistics. I haven't really delved into true project management, but sometimes I think I ought to, at least if it feels easily extensible from an outliner.

Most of my documents are short: blogs, policy statements, essays, journal entries.

For a professional book I'm working on, in markdown, my favorite writing tools have been org-mode and Editorial. Google Docs might be ok if I could rearrange things in the outline pane.

So I suppose I'm just looking for general musings from this thoughtful group of people about where their tool chests have wound up living over the years.



Dr Andus wrote:

jaslar wrote:
> it's more about
>writing and daily management than comprehensive task and project
>management

You may need to provide a bit more detail on what kind of writing and
outlining you do, otherwise you run the risk that people will just chime
in with whatever their particular preferences are.

Once you have defined your specific needs more narrowly, then it might
even be possible to identify the specific piece of software and form
factor (which might override the OS question).

E.g. is it about outlining and writing short pieces (e.g. for online
consumption, blogging, journal entries) or large documents (theses,
novels etc.)?

Then other considerations kick in, such as the need for a specialist
notes database software or academic referencing software that may only
be available on one OS or the other.

That's an impossible question to answer satisfactorily, because the outlining apps on all platforms are disappointing -- at least to me. The ones for Mac tend to be more powerful, I guess, especially if you're using it as you say for writing and daily management (Dynalist is great for daily management, not outstanding for writing.)

The app that has the potential to be excellent for your purposes is Notetaker 4 -- a MacOS app from Aquaminds. I say "potential" because it hasn't been released, though a recent blog article from the developer mentioned a summer release. I also say "potential" because who knows if it will be any good? Notetaker 3 hasn't been updated in several years and when I run it under the latest OS release I sometimes get a warning that it needs to be updated... though it seems to run fine.

Tinderbox is another great outliner that could handle your needs, but is expensive and takes some effort to learn (effort which never seems to end).

I'm sorry. I know I'm just muddying the waters and not helping. But the truth is there is no clear cut answer. I wish there were.

Steve Z.

I would be almost as concerned about the hardware as the software, especially with respect to things like the keyboard if you type a lot. I have been looking at machines recently and am surprised for what passes as a good keyboard. These new thin laptops have flat keys with minimal travel as there is no room for for anything but, and given that Apple now has a class action suite for its butterfly keyboards, I think that it may finally be catching up with some companies. I know that software is first and foremost, but if I had to spend all day typing on a bad keyboard, it would just drive me crazy.

Good luck,

--Ken

jaslar wrote:

Most of my documents are short: blogs, policy statements, essays,
journal entries.

For a professional book I'm working on, in markdown, my favorite writing
tools have been org-mode and Editorial. Google Docs might be ok if I
could rearrange things in the outline pane.

So I suppose I'm just looking for general musings from this thoughtful
group of people about where their tool chests have wound up living over
the years.

If money is no object, and if you'd want an all-in-one machine, then I'd suggest the Pixelbook.

Firstly, you'd get probably the fastest and smoothest web browsing on the planet under Chrome OS (for your online outlining and writing), with direct Google Drive integration, with one of the best screens, keyboards and touchpads on the market.

Secondly, it's a convertible with an active pen input, so you would have the option of writing by hand, using the Android app Squid that has been specially optimised for this device (and the Samsung Chromebook Plus/Pro).

At the same time you'd have access to a second OS, Android, for anything you can't find a web app for.

Thirdly, direct Linux support is coming within Chrome OS, so you may be able to run org-mode there at one point (hopefully soon). So that's a third OS within the same machine.

(I can't afford a Pixelbook, but I got myself a used Samsung Chromebook Pro, specifically for the purpose of handwritten input. I'm currently testing it.)

Seriously, if you're using org-mode and Markdown, just about anything that gives you a shell would do. It's fairly simple to turn a Chromebook into a full Linux box, although you'd probably want to avoid the