tightbeam wrote:

Dr. Andus: You're letting your own zeal for Chrome get in the way of
common sense. Kids who live on their iPhones aren't going to take a big
step back and embrace Chromebooks over iPads. Schools may be moving
toward Chromebooks because of the cheaper cost, but I wouldn't read
anything more into it than that. And OneNote is most definitely the de
facto note-taking software in academia: it's free, it's easily
available, and it's distributed by a "trusted" vendor - Microsoft.

You're reading too much into my question. I'm genuinely curious if there is evidence that US school kid Chromebook users prefer to use iPad at home. You've offered opinion, not evidence.

BTW, I work in academia (in the UK), and I have not yet come across anyone using OneNote (or a Chromebook). As far as I can tell, my colleagues are using MS Word and Excel pretty much for everything, or hard copy notebooks.

Dellu wrote:

I think Onenote is great. They are developing it good. it is one of the
most powerful information management systems out there. it is free. it
is rich. The sync is improving. The features are growing.
I am a Mac user for now. But, I always see my future with Onenote.

While I appreciate your love of OneNote, I just cannot seem to share your outlook on the product (pardon the pun). The web-based version is missing many of the more powerful features that are found in the desktop version, and that is not a direction that that leads me to want to use OneNote. And, I am not sure what features are growing that you find appealing, but I am not certain if they will mitigate the loss of the desktop features that have been pulled. Finally, while you may find Google and Apple's corporate practices to be of question, I am inclined to believe that Microsoft travels in a similar orbit. Just look at what they have done with some of the products that they have purchased over the years, like iView MediaPro.

--Ken

Ken wrote:

Finally, while you may find
Google and Apple's corporate practices to be of question, I am inclined
to believe that Microsoft travels in a similar orbit. Just look at what
they have done with some of the products that they have purchased over
the years, like iView MediaPro.

I don't know a lot about these products. I really don't follow what products they buy. But, from consumer perspective, I find Microsoft much more reliable: at least its Office products have been here forever. I barely know a single Google product that lasted as any of Office products. I was devastated when Google killed Picasa. I had spilled hundreds of hours on that product. Google is the worst in abandoning products.

As to onenote, if you are comparing Onenote 2016 and Onenote 2010, they are very comparable. Onenote 2010 is growing pretty fast. It even gets a lot of feature that the 2016 doesn't has. I really didn't look at the web version. it is even sufficient if has some basic features for the web version. Most of the great note taking applications loved in this community (like Tinderbox and Apple Note) don't even have the basic web version. I don't blame MS for that. I personally don't much care about the web version: so far as it has it has good desktop version, even more attractive as it has versions for Mac, Android, Window.

WE have to give a value that deserves it. I am sure there are economical or strategical advantages that MS is thinking, but, to my mind (to the regular consumer), giving Onenote for free is one of the most generous things MS does. They don't plug ads to it. It might not be a surprise that they developed it for Windows. it is generous that they did for mac and Android as well.

Dellu wrote:

I don't know a lot about these products. I really don't follow what
products they buy. But, from consumer perspective, I find Microsoft much
more reliable: at least its Office products have been here forever. I
barely know a single Google product that lasted as any of Office
products. I was devastated when Google killed Picasa. I had spilled
hundreds of hours on that product. Google is the worst in abandoning
products.

As to onenote, if you are comparing Onenote 2016 and Onenote 2010,
they are very comparable. Onenote 2010 is growing pretty fast. It even
gets a lot of feature that the 2016 doesn't has. I really didn't look at
the web version. it is even sufficient if has some basic features for
the web version. Most of the great note taking applications loved in
this community (like Tinderbox and Apple Note) don't even have the basic
web version. I don't blame MS for that. I personally don't much care
about the web version: so far as it has it has good desktop version,
even more attractive as it has versions for Mac, Android, Window.

WE have to give a value that deserves it. I am sure there are economical
or strategical advantages that MS is thinking, but, to my mind (to the
regular consumer), giving Onenote for free is one of the most generous
things MS does. They don't plug ads to it. It might not be a surprise
that they developed it for Windows. it is generous that they did for mac
and Android as well.

Well, I can certainly share your frustrations about Google abandoning software. And while I did not use Apple's Aperture, I am sure that many folks who did would feel the same way about Apple. Regarding OneNote, it is my understanding that the desktop versions are soon to go away and be replaced by the web version that is part of Office 365. I am sure that you can continue to use your desktop version for some time to come, but understand that it will be an abandoned product at some point in the future. I do understand the appeal of offering a web-based product, but for those of us that need features that cannot be easily supported or offered in web products, that leaves us in a tough spot. I am watching a similar situation play out with Adobe's Lightroom. They no longer support a stand-alone version, and now have two subscription model versions. The "classic" version is primarily machine-based and is fully featured, and the "new" version is heavily integrated intot he web, but offers far fewer features (for now). How companies reconcile this split or find a way to enhance their newer web-based versions is the million dollar question for many of us.

--Ken

Regrettably, the non-Windows versions of OneNote have (even) less features and the user interface has severe lag in responding e.g. to basic editing commands, such as command+v on Mac OS.

Meanwhile ... (see other thread) a single programmer is showing what OneNote could have been with the recent Curio 12 release.
Too bad that Curio isn't cross platform and doesn't sync across multiple authors - otherwise would be a 10x more powerful all around replacement ...
My 2 Cents.

P.S.: Yes I'm holding a grudge - my team voted to use OneNote as standard for meeting notes, so I'm spending about an hour a day cursing the user experience ... (mostly on Windows because the other versions are noticeably worse)

I wanted to like OneNote - I found it visually attractive, and appreciated the notebook metaphor.

But, being able to organize to only 2 or 3 levels meant a need for some robust tagging capability. But it never happened, although Microsoft was told about that need often enough by many OneNote users.

The other weakness in OneNote was that its web clipping capability was pretty poor compared with, say, Evernote's. Again, that was a common complaint, but MS never seemed to take it seriously.

Lastly, ON has one of the worst highlighters I have ever seen. It's not rocket science to get that right.

So...I am left wondering how serious MS is with ON. A little more thought on their part, and they could bat Evernote out of the park.

Daly

Purely anecdotal … I can’t remember the exact quote but I think I heard it on a Canvas podcast (Relay FM). Hosted by Federico Viticci and Fraser Speirs, Canvas is a podcast all about mobile productivity. Federico and Fraser walk through workflows, exploring the best apps for the iPad and iPhone and helping users solve problems.

Fraser designed and deployed the world's first whole-school 1:1 iPad deployment.

https://www.speirs.org

http://fraserspeirs.com

bartb wrote:

Purely anecdotal … I can’t remember the exact quote but I
think I heard it on a Canvas podcast (Relay FM). Hosted by Federico
Viticci and Fraser Speirs,

Ahm, are you talking about this:
"From a device/network management point of view: if you’re a teacher or administrator, then Chrome books are a godsend - if you’re a student, not so much (they can’t wait to get home to their iPad’s)."
Or which part of this?

Ken wrote:

>The web-based version is
missing many of the more powerful features that are found in the desktop
version, and that is not a direction that that leads me to want to use
OneNote. And, I am not sure what features are growing that you find
appealing, but I am not certain if they will mitigate the loss of the
desktop features that have been pulled.

The announcement was about discontinuing Onenote 2016 in favor of Onenote for Windows 10- not the web-based version.
The feature set of Onenote for Windows 10 exceeds that of Onenote 2016 in many ways and the pace of development has been brisk.
https://support.office.com/en-us/article/what-s-the-difference-between-onenote-and-onenote-2016-a624e692-b78b-4c09-b07f-46181958118f

OneNote for Windows 10 does not have this "legacy" feature from OneNote 2016:

"Store notebooks on your local hard drive instead of in the cloud, including backups"

Until it does - and it's by no means likely that it ever will - I'm hesitant to use it, and I'm sure I am not alone.

tightbeam wrote:

OneNote for Windows 10 does not have this "legacy" feature from OneNote
2016:

"Store notebooks on your local hard drive instead of in the cloud,
including backups"

Until it does - and it's by no means likely that it ever will - I'm
hesitant to use it, and I'm sure I am not alone.

I would not expect that functionality to return - It seems to clear to me that the direction of travel is to the so-called cloud

You're probably right, though if Microsoft is committed to cloud storage as the default for OneNote, it'd be nice to have an option for parallel local storage.

Right, the new Onenote doesn't allow local save. Will it ever? Seems like a no.

If I am able to put 10+ gigabytes in there, in a dozen notebooks, 100+ sections, 10,000+ pages, with thousands of images scattered throughout, will I be able to type in a search and get all the results - sometimes hundreds - in well under a second, highlighted in the page outline, and sorted or limited in various ways? Will I be able to click on any result and see the corresponding page in, again, much less than a second?

The answer is surely no.

Can I do that right now, with Onenote 2010 on the desktop? Yes.

To me, the amazing speed and search, even at scale, it's OneNote's most compelling feature, by far.

Good question about search performance from the cloud. I wonder if Microsoft follows discussions such as this one, and would be prepared to answer your question.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using OneNote for?

Daly

yosemite wrote:

Right, the new Onenote doesn't allow local save. Will it ever? Seems
like a no.

If I am able to put 10+ gigabytes in there, in a dozen notebooks, 100+
sections, 10,000+ pages, with thousands of images scattered throughout,
will I be able to type in a search and get all the results - sometimes
hundreds - in well under a second, highlighted in the page outline, and
sorted or limited in various ways? Will I be able to click on any result
and see the corresponding page in, again, much less than a second?

The answer is surely no.

Can I do that right now, with Onenote 2010 on the desktop? Yes.

To me, the amazing speed and search, even at scale, it's OneNote's most
compelling feature, by far.

Franz Grieser wrote:

bartb wrote:
>Purely anecdotal … I can’t remember the exact quote but I
>think I heard it on a Canvas podcast (Relay FM). Hosted by Federico
>Viticci and Fraser Speirs,

Ahm, are you talking about this:
"From a device/network management point of view: if you’re a
teacher or administrator, then Chrome books are a godsend - if
you’re a student, not so much (they can’t wait to get home

I was talking about the "From a device/network management point of view:...."

to their iPad’s)."
Or which part of this?

tightbeam wrote:

OneNote for Windows 10 does not have this "legacy" feature from OneNote
2016:

"Store notebooks on your local hard drive instead of in the cloud,
including backups"

Until it does - and it's by no means likely that it ever will - I'm
hesitant to use it, and I'm sure I am not alone.

Agreed ... that why I'm moving over to DEVON Think Pro

NickG wrote:

tightbeam wrote:
OneNote for Windows 10 does not have this "legacy" feature from OneNote
>2016:
>
>"Store notebooks on your local hard drive instead of in the cloud,
>including backups"
>
>Until it does - and it's by no means likely that it ever will - I'm
>hesitant to use it, and I'm sure I am not alone.
>

I would not expect that functionality to return - It seems to clear to
me that the direction of travel is to the so-called cloud

Agreed!

Daly de Gagne wrote:
Good question about search performance from the cloud. I wonder if
Microsoft follows discussions such as this one, and would be prepared to
answer your question.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using OneNote for?

Daly

At work I use it as a visual file cabinet, for notes, for miscellaneous, and for some mild project management and team management. Emails are in Outlook and files are in the file system, just about everything else is in either Onenote or workflowy. In Onenote I have notebooks for different work areas, with section groups and sections for projects, and everything related to that project except most of the emails, is either in Onenote or linked from it. Meeting notes, schedules (simple ones), various notes, links to key files, and certain key emails (which are embedded, because unfortunately you can't reliably link to individual emails in Outlook). Project-related notebooks are shared amongst team members.

I like it because it is fast even now that it's got tons of stuff in it. It's quick and easy to get stuff in, and it's pretty easy to find stuff and get stuff back out.

I'm pretty sure that with storage in the cloud they don't mean this will be necessary a web client/server application. They might just use a local cache and sync it with your cloud. At least for the moment. They only need to make sure the cloud must be used to lockin their users to their services. Then they can sell overpriced webspace for your 18 core/20 TB Storage home computer.

tightbeam wrote:

You're probably right, though if Microsoft is committed to cloud storage
as the default for OneNote, it'd be nice to have an option for parallel
local storage.

One of my major objections to cloud-only apps is that, despite what tech companies and commentators might want to be live, internet access is *not* universal and reliable. At the same time as cloud-based apps are being sold as a solution for the mobile, agile worker, they also cripple said worker when they find themselves somewhere where the could isn't available.

Cloud sync - oh yes, I'll have that, because then my only issue when I'm "in the dark" is that I might not have the latest update or be able to access additional information. Cloud-only? No thanks - in the dark, I'm crippled.

Of course, there's cacheing, but that's only a partial solution and is always at risk from those app or OS functions that might decide that now's a good time to clean up old cache items

Does anyone know if they're going to discontinue the ability to use Sharepoint as a back end? I can understand discontinuing support for OneNote notebooks on network shares (which worked, but not well with large teams), but moving 100% to the Microsoft Cloud is going to make some corporate scenarios untenable for a variety of reasons.

As a related point, does anyone know a decent Windows-hosted alternative to DevonThink? There's the DevonThink Pro web interface, so it is usable from Windows, but I find it strange that there is almost nothing to turn to in this specific area.

--Chris

$Bill wrote:

The announcement was about discontinuing Onenote 2016 in favor of
Onenote for Windows 10- not the web-based version.
The feature set of Onenote for Windows 10 exceeds that of Onenote 2016
in many ways and the pace of development has been brisk.
https://support.office.com/en-us/article/what-s-the-difference-between-onenote-and-onenote-2016-a624e692-b78b-4c09-b07f-46181958118f

As others have alluded to, the devil is in the details. I work in a Win7 environment so the Win10 version is not available to me. And, while the Win10 version may have some new features, it is missing some key features found in the 2016 version that some people find useful (or essential), so exceeding in many ways is a bit of a leading statement IMHO, as Microsoft is putting value on what they think is important, not necessarily what I think is important. It is not that the product has no value, its just that they are taking away features, and that can be an issue for many of us.

--Ken

“Store notebooks on your local hard drive instead of in the cloud

What is the point of storing these Onenote files in the local drive in the first place?

- These notes cannot be opened or searched with another application. They cannot be opened with other applications. They have always been Onenote databases. If you have onenote installed, you don't need them; if you don't have onenote installed they have always been useless.


- the current Onenote also caches similarly. You can use the application forever without ever being connected to the Internet. The MS cloud is not required. you use it only if you want to access your files across across many devises.


Unless I am missing sth, some of the complains in here don't make much sense.

I am one of the people who hates corporate greed and not so much fond of the Cloud. But, the points raised in here against the new version of Onenote are, I think, based on misunderstandings.

Dellu wrote:

“Store notebooks on your local hard drive instead of in the cloud

What is the point of storing these Onenote files in the local drive in
the first place?

- These notes cannot be opened or searched with another application.
They cannot be opened with other applications. They have always been
Onenote databases. If you have onenote installed, you don't need them;
if you don't have onenote installed they have always been useless.


- the current Onenote also caches similarly. You can use the application
forever without ever being connected to the Internet. The MS cloud is
not required. you use it only if you want to access your files across
across many devises.


Unless I am missing sth, some of the complains in here don't make much
sense.

I am one of the people who hates corporate greed and not so much fond of
the Cloud. But, the points raised in here against the new version of
Onenote are, I think, based on misunderstandings.

The point of storing OneNote files locally is, as I said earlier in the thread, to be able to work when there's no internet connection, or a very poor one. There may be other uses cases too, but that one is, for me, the deal-breaker.

If you *never* have to work without internet access, it's not a problem. I f you *never* run into data limits, it's not a problem.

It's not a "complaint" - it's a reason why a cloud-only app is not suitable for some people. Including me.

Dellu wrote:

What is the point of storing these Onenote files in the local drive in
the first place?
...
Unless I am missing sth, some of the complains in here don't make much
sense.
...
But, the points raised in here against the new version of
Onenote are, I think, based on misunderstandings.

Most people don't want Microsoft to read their notes, for either (1) privacy reasons and/or (2) legal reasons (business use). Which is something that they will do, just like Google reads your GMail and Facebook reads your private messages. But that is just the price to pay for installing malware on your system.