Hi, I used to peruse this board pretty frequently but have not for a year (or probably more than that). I'm wondering if there have been any new developments re one pane outliners for Windows. I still use EccoPro for quite a few things (and may just keep using it for what I do, but if there are other things out there now I'd check them out.

Also, as I posted before, I would love to have something that allows for having mini collapsible outlines inside of table cells. Think Word tables, with a separate outline being able to be used within each cell. I tried treesheets before but it wasn't quite what I was looking for.

Thank you all,
Nathan

Scrivener 3 now has a single pane columnar outlining mode. See page 181, Figure 8.23 of the manual for a screenshot of what it looks like.

There's no "outlines within table cells" mode like you're thinking of, but Scrivener does support nesting, so you can have different index cards that can represent different outlines, which might be close enough. You wouldn't be able to see the actual content of the outlines in index card mode though.

It's in beta now for Windows, with the full Windows release slated for early in the new year. I haven't tried the beta and can't vouch for how good it is (it's a complete rewrite from scratch for Windows), but the Mac version is solid.

ndodge wrote:

I'm wondering if there have been any
new developments re one pane outliners for Windows.

Probably any new developments these days are bound to be web-based apps with subscription (think WorkFlowy, Dynalist etc.).

Even previously existing software are gradually disappearing (think Natara Bonsai, Noteliner etc.).

Although some of the oldies on this thread are still around:

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/2520/

Chris Thompson wrote:

Scrivener 3 now has a single pane columnar outlining mode. See page 181,
Figure 8.23 of the manual for a screenshot of what it looks like.

There's no "outlines within table cells" mode like you're thinking of,
but Scrivener does support nesting, so you can have different index
cards that can represent different outlines, which might be close
enough. You wouldn't be able to see the actual content of the outlines
in index card mode though.

It's in beta now for Windows, with the full Windows release slated for
early in the new year. I haven't tried the beta and can't vouch for how
good it is (it's a complete rewrite from scratch for Windows), but the
Mac version is solid.

I can't tell that the new "centered outline" mode really does anything terribly significant, and the manual says if the window isn't wide enough to display the outline with room left over, centered outline mode does nothing.

What it does, as far as I see, is center the outline in the window. It doesn't change how it's displayed, it just centers whatever it's displaying.

Outline mode has been part of Scrivener for a long time. I may be missing something, but it looks like Scrivener Version 2's outline mode to me - and you can now jog it a little to the right to center it, if you want.

Is there something else to centered outline mode?

There is a button at the bottom right of the outline view (beside the new centered outline button) to show or hide synopses. I'm not sure if that was there before or not.

Also see this thread on the "Current state of iOS/macOS outliners":

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/7780/0/current-state-of-iosmacos-outliners

Glad to see the Noteliner mention, as it prompted me to search for the installer file (haven't used it since my previous laptop). It's rather unfortunate that this won't see any further development. I rather think it's the best one-pane outliner for Windows in existence for folks who like to do general outlining and task management within a single file. Luckily, a lot of great features made it in before its apparent demise.

It's the opposite of mini-outlines within table cells, but Noteliner supports tables within outline nodes. :-)

I'd also suggest trying InfoQube as a one-pane outliner. It's got a TON of other features, but you don't have to use them. I think it truly is the modern Ecco. If you start a new blank file and hide the properties pane and the HTML pane, you've got a single-pane outliner.

Chris Murtland wrote:

I'd also suggest trying InfoQube as a one-pane outliner. It's got a TON
of other features, but you don't have to use them. I think it truly is
the modern Ecco. If you start a new blank file and hide the properties
pane and the HTML pane, you've got a single-pane outliner.

Good to hear. I have been under stress at work again due to an overload of urgent assignments and as usual, have been AWOL from using MLO which I have been using for the past year or two. I love the program, but there are some UI issues that just seem like a bit of grit in the wheels, and that makes using it under pressure that much more difficult for me. I keep thinking I should try IQ and was looking at some of the documentation last night. I do wonder if I can get over the learning curve and find the love that I had found when using Ecco for all of those years.

I find that it is not difficult to use less than optimal software (and hardware) under normal or light working conditions. But, when things get crazy, that is when I notice what programs and devices serve me best. Little annoyances that can normally be overlooked suddenly start tripping up my work flow, and can make for a frustrating experience. I have found similar experiences when photographing in fast moving environments. Certain equipment lends itself better to being operated by "muscle memory", and some equipment just plain fails as nothing seems to be intuitive. It's always a bit of a search for that (personal) Holy Grail, but I suspect that quest keeps my mind sharp. Looking forward to some time when I can play with IQ for a while.

--Ken

I wonder, Chris, if the developer of Noteliner would be open to someone else taking over its development?

Daly

Chris Murtland wrote:

Glad to see the Noteliner mention, as it prompted me to search for the
installer file (haven't used it since my previous laptop). It's rather
unfortunate that this won't see any further development. I rather think
it's the best one-pane outliner for Windows in existence for folks who
like to do general outlining and task management within a single file.
Luckily, a lot of great features made it in before its apparent demise.

It's the opposite of mini-outlines within table cells, but Noteliner
supports tables within outline nodes. :-)

I'd also suggest trying InfoQube as a one-pane outliner. It's got a TON
of other features, but you don't have to use them. I think it truly is
the modern Ecco. If you start a new blank file and hide the properties
pane and the HTML pane, you've got a single-pane outliner.

I think Tree bit the dust. And I'm still waiting for Neo to somehow come up with a readable manual.

Daly de Gagne wrote:

I wonder, Chris, if the developer of Noteliner would be open to someone
else taking over its development?

Daly

As far as I know, no one has been able to get in touch with Sam.

Noteliner, Workflowy, and Dynalist are all pretty close in my mind. Speed, hoisting, and filtering are all critical to how I use an outliner.

The one thing that really sets Noteliner and Workflowy apart in my mind is the ability to expand the hierarchy of parent items in a filtered view, which allows getting into the "neighborhood" or "family" of items from an initial filtered search. without having to back out of the filter. This seems rather minor on the surface, but it really matches how I work in actuality, so I get annoyed when it's impossible. As far as I know, these are the only two that work this way (at least among the Windows or web options).

Chris Murtland wrote:

The one thing that really sets Noteliner and Workflowy apart in my mind is the ability to expand the hierarchy of parent items in a filtered view, which allows getting into the "neighborhood" or "family" of items from an initial filtered search. without having to back out of the filter. (...) As far as I know, these are the only two that work this way (at least among the Windows or web options).

If I understand correctly, the "Hoist Up one level" command will do what you want. Doc here:
http://www.sqlnotes.net/drupal5/index.php?q=node/1253

Pierre Paul Landry
InfoQube Designer

Noteliner was going somewhere good. Had problems with dupes of newly created nodes and child nodes. After 3.3 until the 3.6.3b came out, I was hoping it would keep developing. I liked his thinking.

Now I guess the nearest thing to it is Whizfolder and the slightly beastier Rightnote. Can have notes, table etc on the right pane editor in them as well as files and folders and spreadsheets and pics and more. Rightnote is the no nonsense winner in this class now for Windows, sort of Devonthink. Good for going through tons and tones of notes and research in the third inspector search pane, still better than the new Scrivener 3 new inspector third pane. Of course you can turn off 2nd and 3rd panes and just use it as a one pane outliner and expand into 2nd editor pane when needed. Lets face it, the Rightnote guy is a beast. The Whizfolder guy has given up and is just cashing in.

Noteliner type simpler note based genre? There are a couple of new ones who have taken up that crown. I might make a thread if I have time to dig up some links.I hope the Noteliner dev is doing OK.

It's sure not new but Treepad celebrated it's 22nd birthday this year and it's still going strong. For a single-pane outliner, there really isn't anything better IMHO.

For the adventurous, XLNotes (add-in for Excel) is an undiscovered gem. It's abandonware but you can still find it on the net if you look hard enough. The last version was v.8 but what you want is v.2 because it's completely stable and works beautifully with Excel 2010. In fact, it's useful enough to me that I still use Excel 2010 because of it.

What it does is to turn each cell of an Excel spreadsheet into a full ms word (or notepad) document of unlimited length with full formatting and as a comment in a sidebar. In addition to the obvious use of documenting cells, it can also turn Excel into a functional outliner. In fact, since it allows multiple notes per cell and you can (obviously) have multiple cells per row it's actually a *hugely* powerful outliner. I use it all the time for this purpose.

Why Microsoft hasn't built this capability into Excel is a mystery to me because it works very, very well.