I thought it might be nice to have a list of all the outliners that work on both macOS (whether through a web app or with native clients) and on iOS (with an app of some kind). I made it using Dynalist and thought I'd share it so that other forum members can add to it and edit it as they like. I'm going to try making it editable via a shared link I share here, but if it starts getting SPAM I'll have to switch to email invites...

https://dynalist.io/d/Zxrmx6L-cfbrhKLnCZvpqrFs

I hadn't turned on sharing properly before. It should work now.

Many thanks for this.

One point about OmniOutliner is that the most glaring omission (in my view) from its arsenal of tools is clones.

Interesting project. It's kind of sad how few outliners there are that meet your criteria. I added Carbonfin Outliner to the list.

Your project also demonstrates the utility of Dynalist, which I appreciate more each time I use it.

Steve Z.

Nice project. Thanks for getting it going.

I added Index Card. Also added some info about sync between platforms and between apps.

Scrivener qualifies, right? Plus it has a Windows version too.

I've used the ios and Windows apps - both are excellent - but not Mac.

I don't use it on either platform, but doesn't One Note qualify?

Thanks everyone!

I've updated the description to make clear that this is for *dedicated outliners* only, not every app that has an outlining function. This excludes Evernote, One Note, Scrivner, MindMap apps that have limited outliner views, etc.

Steve, I use Dynalist a lot now. I gave up on Workflowy because development has virtually stopped. Initially I didn't like Dynalist as much as Workflowy. Dynalist is actively developed, and now I like it better than Workflowy. It has become the more elegant program.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Interesting project. It's kind of sad how few outliners there are that
meet your criteria. I added Carbonfin Outliner to the list.

Your project also demonstrates the utility of Dynalist, which I
appreciate more each time I use it.

Steve Z.

I'm hopeful that Outlinely will eventually improve their desktop app, but right now I find Dynalist to be easier to use on the desktop. Not crazy about the iOS app though. Outlinely is still much better on mobile, and will likely remain so since Dynalist is not a native iOS app. For some reason in-browser apps can be as good as native apps on the desktop, but web-view apps on iOS generally trail far behind in terms of usability when compared with native apps.

MagicalPad probably belongs on there, too, although development seems to have ground to a halt

I wouldn't consider MagicPad to be a dedicated outliner.

So, where can we find the canonical definition of "dedicated outliner"? I was a little surprised to find my entries summarily deleted because the list owner deemed them irrelevant. Maybe this project doesn't lend itself to collaboration.

Luhmann wrote:

Thanks everyone!

I've updated the description to make clear that this is for *dedicated
outliners* only, not every app that has an outlining function. This
excludes Evernote, One Note, Scrivner, MindMap apps that have limited
outliner views, etc.

Just play "one of these things is not like the others" before adding something new to the list and you should be fine.

Ah, I get it. It's an entirely subjective classification with no objective validation.

Luhmann wrote:

Just play "one of these things is not like the others" before adding
something new to the list and you should be fine.

There are pretty good lists on Wikipedia and elsewhere, too.

Here's what it says at the top of the outline:

"This list is limited to dedicated outliners that work on both macOS and iOS. The macOS app might be a web app, and the iOS app might be simply a web view, but the important thing is that one can start working on one's laptop or desktop computer and continue working on one's phone or iPad.

This outline is editable by anyone who has the link, but any entries that don't meet the list description will be deleted. (No multipurpose apps that happen to have an outline view. No iOS only apps.) This is not a place for reviews. Try to follow the same guidelines Wikipedia does for a "neutral point of view."

You added a product that was iOS only but synced to a multipurpose app. That is why it was deleted. You can consider this "subjective" if you like, but I think most people are capable of understanding the concept since all the other items on the list fit the description.

Luhmann wrote:

Here's what it says at the top of the outline:

(...) but any entries that don't meet the list description will be deleted.

Instead of deleting the entries, it would be more suitable and respectful IMHO to create a heading at the end: "Rejected Entries" and move it under that heading. A discussion could follow which may validate the entry after all.
(plus occasional clean-up)

Just my 2 cents !

Pierre Paul Landry

I think a holding ground for discussion is a good idea, at least for a few days before deletion. (Not indefinitely.)

At this point, however, I would rather people improve the list by adding more information on these apps (features, cost, sync) etc. The list was created to cover a specific niche and I believe we already have all the apps that meet the specified criteria.

If someone would like to create another list or a larger list that covers more types of software, they are free to copy and use the content from this list if they are willing to do the work of maintaining it. I have added text making it clear that the outline is available in the Public Domain (with a link to the CC0 license), so everyone should be comfortable doing whatever they want with the list.

Moved the meta-discussion (rules, definitions, etc.) to a dedicated "about this list" item. Links back to this thread for further discussion.

I think the issue here is the term "outliner". What exactly do you mean by "outliner"?

For example, I suspect I'm right in thinking that you don't regard two-pane (notebook-style) outliners as valid entries in your list.

Apps such as e.g. Notebooks, Ulysses, TextNut, MWeb, Bear and many others support hierarchical folders and/or hierarchical tags, although they don't support folding or hoisting as such (actually, you could argue that Ulysses kind of supports hoisting).

So do you regard them as outliners, or not?

And what about apps that enable precise isolation of data using tags etc. (e.g. Letterspace, Simplenote)? These could be described as "outliners", even though they don't use hierarchical techniques as such, because they do facilitate data chunking.

If you clarified the parameters for inclusion in your list, I think you'd make it easier for people to contribute ;-)

Actually, perhaps this is a challenge we should throw open to everybody on OutlinerSoftware: what exactly is an outliner? We could start a new thread...

No. I don't consider those to be dedicated outliners but "multipurpose software that has outliner functions." I think that is made very explicit from the text in the current about section, as well as the list of software currently included in the list. Sorry if it is still not clear enough for some people, but I am not really interested in having a philosophical discussion about it. Those who understand the distinction I'm making and are interested in supporting the project are welcome to help, those who want something else are welcome to start their own projects that are more inclusive.