1) I just tried running GV under Tame ver 6 pre-release in Windows XP SP2 Media Center Edition.. I do not recommend it. I found no real advantages and some drawbacks. I used GoBack to completely remove Tame. Too bad ...sigh :~(

2) Has anyone managed to get the GV mouse cursor to work under Win XP? I seem to recall that under Win 2000, I could mouse click on a GV menu heading to get the menu to appear. Under XP, I have to press Alt-F1 and then the first letter of the menu item.

-c

You might want to try DOSbox. The mouse works fine for me in Grandview with the default settings of DOSbox. (I was using the Mac version of DOSbox but I doubt it makes any difference, I'm sure it works as well on Windows DOSbox.) Grandview does poll the mouse position repeatedly so it might slow your system down if you've only got one processor core. I know TAME is supposed to handle that by default, not sure if there's a similar setting in Dosemu. If it's a problem you could always reduce the Dosemu process priority so it just uses CPU time on idle.

-- Chris

Cassius wrote:

1) I just tried running GV under Tame ver 6 pre-release in Windows XP SP2 Media Center
Edition.. I do not recommend it. I found no real advantages and some drawbacks. I used
GoBack to completely remove Tame. Too bad ...sigh :~(

2) Has anyone managed to get
the GV mouse cursor to work under Win XP? I seem to recall that under Win 2000, I could
mouse click on a GV menu heading to get the menu to appear. Under XP, I have to press
Alt-F1 and then the first letter of the menu item.

-c

Hi Cassius,

I didn't find the version prior to the Tame version you tested did much for GV. I liked the ability to fine-tune the display and things like cut-and-pasting, but it really slowed up scrolling and I had to take it off. Also, whatever I did to GV altered all my other DOS programs. I am sure there is a way to use Tame selectively, but as I was happy with most aspects of my pre-Tame GV set-up I just removed Tame.

I think the Tame developer needs to actually post some settings suitable for important DOS programs (like GV, WordPerfect, Lotus Agenda, etc). I don't have the time to spend tinkering with it now that I have retired :-).

I don't have your problem with my mouse in GV. I can just click on the menu bar to select a menu item. Have another look at the pif settings I posted in another thread recently. Maybe there is something there that differs from your set-up. I do have a vague (i.e. unhelpful) recollection that occasionally the mouse stops working, but it is a pretty rare event.

Derek

Derek Cornish wrote:

... I don't have your problem with my mouse in GV. I can just click on the menu bar to select a menu item. Have another look at the pif settings I posted in another thread recently. Maybe there is something there that differs from your set-up...

---------------

I found the thread and your postings: You mentioned your PIF, but you didn't give its specific settings. (You did list for JeePea the command line parameters.)

Here, again are the pif settings I use and listed in that thread. Do you have anything different? (Note: I don't now know why I have the \A switch. Perhaps it had a use in Ver. 1, but not Ver. 2?) I assume you are running XP.

cmd line: C:\PROGRA~1\GRANDV~1\GV.EXE /A/V/L/T/W
font: TrueType only; 9x15
memory: All auto; uses HMA; protected -> off
screen: use window; all options checked
misc: Foreground, mouse and background: unchecked
Fast pasting and all Windows shortcut keys: checked
Compatibility: all unchecked

Cassius wrote:

I found the thread and your postings: You
mentioned your PIF, but you didn't give its specific settings. (You did list for
JeePea the command line parameters.)

Here, again are the pif settings I use and
listed in that thread. Do you have anything different? (Note: I don't now know why I
have the \A switch. Perhaps it had a use in Ver. 1, but not Ver. 2?) I assume you are
running XP.

cmd line: C:\PROGRA~1\GRANDV~1\GV.EXE /A/V/L/T/W
font: TrueType
only; 9x15
memory: All auto; uses HMA; protected -> off
screen: use window; all
options checked
misc: Foreground, mouse and background: unchecked
Fast pasting
and all Windows shortcut keys: checked
Compatibility: all unchecked

Cassius,
Sorry, should have given the thread url. It is http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/3543
To expand on what I said then:

Yes, I am using XP SP2 Professional.
Cmd line: Same as yours, except I don’t use /L/T/W - but probably should
*Font: 9x15: “both” is checked. (probably because I am using special fonts - see below)
Memory: same as you, I think, i.e. everything is on "Auto" and "uses HMA" is checked.
Screen: all same as yours
Misc: Same as you except Background - “always suspend” is checked and Termination: "warm,etc" is also checked; idle sensitivity is "Medium" (probably the same as yours); Shortcut key "Alt-Enter" is unchecked.
Compatibility: like yours (all unchecked)

*On fonts (above): I am using (I think they are still working) Uwe Sieber’s modified DOS fonts. I have his NewDOS Fullscreen >(Licence version) installed. They can be found at http://www.uwe-sieber.de/dosfon_e.html

The only other things I can think of are:
1. The possibility that there is another duplicate "rogue" pif somewhere in your system that is seizing priority.
2. I looked in my config.nt and Autoexec.nt files (both in c:\WINDOWS\system32\) and noticed that I still had references to Tame in the latter, but REMMed out - apart from a path statement to its exe file (which was uninstalled). It may be worth looking to see if anything untoward is in yours.

Hope that helps.

Derek

Derek said,
2. I looked in my config.nt and Autoexec.nt files (both in c:\WINDOWS\system32\) and noticed that I still had references to Tame in the latter, but REMMed out - apart from a path statement to its exe file (which was uninstalled). It may be worth looking to see if anything untoward is in yours.
==================

Derek, was there anything not REMmed in your Config.nt?

I've tried changing almost everything to no avail.

Does the mouse pointer in your GV look like an ordinary windows pointer or like a square box?

I found, or re-found, a few interesting things in my unsuccessful quest:

1) If the GV display shrinks, you MAY be able to restore it by opening the GV Windows menu and select Zoom. On my machine this caused the display to shrink, but repeating this procedure caused my display to restore to full size.

2) The /V parameter gives me a better display.
3) (You probably know this; I didn't.) With GV open, right-clicking on the GV title bar or the GV icon in the task bar opensmenus that contain a "properties" item that is different than the PIF properties. Changing the setting for fonts gave me a better display.

-c

WARNING!!!

In the above missive, I said,
"3) (You probably know this; I didn’t.) With GV open, right-clicking on the GV title bar or the GV icon in the task bar opens a menu that contains a “properties” item that is different than the PIF properties. Changing the setting for fonts gave me a better display. "

It did give me a better display, but it created unacceptable problems. I changed the fonts back.

-c

Cassius wrote:

Derek, was there anything not REMmed in your
Config.nt?

I've tried changing almost everything to no avail.

These are the only active lines in my config.nt:
dos=high, umb
device=%SystemRoot%\system32\himem.sys
files=60

In autoexec.nt, the following are not remmed out:
REM Install CD ROM extensions
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\mscdexnt.exe

REM Install network redirector (load before dosx.exe)
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\redir

REM Install DPMI support
lh %SystemRoot%\system32\dosx

SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 P330 T3

Does the mouse
pointer in your GV look like an ordinary windows pointer or like a square box?

It looks like an ordinary pointer. The square box is the cursor, operated by the arrow keys etc.

Is there anything special about your XP Media Center Edition that might cause the pointer to fail?- just clutching at straws really. Does the point appear in any of your other DOS programs - if you use any?

Derek

Cassius,

One other thing - about the menu of items you get by right-clicking on the GV title bar or taskbar icon...

On the list of items there is one below the "Properties" menu item that reads "Hide mouse pointer". (I hadn't noticed it before, but I suppose it must always have been there, and it is present for all my DOS programs - ergo, must be an option for the Windows Virtual DOS Machine.)

When I clicked this item I lost my pointer in GV. After a momentary panic (Argh! How would I be able to get it back?) I Alt-Tabbed to another program. This gave me my usual Windows mouse pointer back. When I right-clicked on the GV Task-bar again to pop up the menu, the item in question (the last one on the list) now read "Display mouse pointer". When I did so - by using the down-arrow to operate the menu highlight bar (the windows pointer did not work in it) - the Windows pointer worked again in GV.

Incidentally, doing things like re-sizing the GV window while the pointer is hidden made odd things happen to the pointer in my windows programs until I shut down GV. Then things went back to normal.

At first I thought it might give the answer to your problem, but it is possible that you don't have this "display/hide pointer" menu item on that NTVDM context menu in your setup. But at any rate it may give some clue to what is happening.

I think I must have some more general default command "Display mouse pointer" ON somewhere in my setup because I noticed that when I closed GV with the mouse pointer still hidden, the pointer came back again on its own when I started up GV again. Maybe someone else who knows more than I do about how to change the defaults for the ntvdm window can help out here. There was nothing on the "defaults" menu item on the context menu you mentioned that seemed relevant.

One last thing. I get the windows mouse pointer in GV whether I run it under cmd.exe or command.com. See:
http://windowsitpro.com/article/articleid/39566/whats-windows-xps-ms-dos-command-prompt.html

I hope somewhere in that farrago of info there might be something useful :-)

Derek

Derek, thank you for all your help and suggestions.

Our autoexec.nt and config.nt files have identical operating (non-REMmed) commands. Your thought that GV might work better under command.com was great. I tried it but, regrettably, it didn't help.

I do have the display/hide pointer item and played with it. Didn't help. By the way, my mouse pointer in GV is the Windows pointer.

I've played with my touchpad settings also to no avail.

One strange thing is that before I reinstalled Windows in November, the mouse pointer would work on menu items once a menu itself was opened. Now that doesn't work either.

As far as Media Center Edition being the problem, who knows? It could also be one of the Toshiba utilities on my machine or an errant character in a line of code. As geneticists are now discovering, a small variation in a DNA strand can have devastating effects. Hence my concern about some of the genetic engineering currently occurring in the U.S.

One positive item. I just discovered that if I copy text from a Windows file, I can paste it into GV by just clicking the right touchpad button. Also, if I highlight text in GV and then press Enter, the text is copied onto the clipboard and can be pasted into a Windows file. Neither of these require my opening a menu.

Thanks again. I'll keep working on the problem and will let you/"the group" know if anything develops.

-c

Cassius wrote:

I do have the display/hide pointer item and played with it. Didn't help. By the
way, my mouse pointer in GV is the Windows pointer.

I've played with my touchpad
settings also to no avail.

One strange thing is that before I reinstalled Windows in
November, the mouse pointer would work on menu items once a menu itself was opened. Now
that doesn't work either.

One positive item. I just discovered
that if I copy text from a Windows file, I can paste it into GV by just clicking the right
touchpad button. Also, if I highlight text in GV and then press Enter, the text is
copied onto the clipboard and can be pasted into a Windows file. Neither of these
require my opening a menu.

My mouse is the IBM trackpoint found on Thinkpads, and I took a look at its settings after posting my last message. I couldn't see anything helpful in terms of your issues, however.

I can also confirm that it is the Windows arrow pointer that I get when using GV in an ntdvm window. When I use GV full-screen, however - ie. using Alt-Enter to give GV exclusive use of the display - I get the traditional (wobbly) square block, together with pretty awful DOS fonts. In case I didn't mention it before, my Windows pointer works in all my DOS programs that can use a mouse. For example, I still use Quicken (DOS) and PC-Write regularly and the Windows pointer can be used in them to select text, menus and menu items, etc.

On the positive items you mention, neither of those work in my setup. That certainly suggests that something is interfering with the defaults for the ntdvm window. As you say it may well be particular to your Toshiba setup. Have you tried looking in your win.ini and system.ini files to see what support for 16-bit applications they contain? Mine have a whole slew of stuff in them - none of which I have much clue about.

Lastly, do you have GV installed in any other XP computer - maybe a desktop one - and do you get the same problems there? Have you tried using an external mouse with the Toshiba?

I'll continue thinking about this as certain XP setups do seem to have more problems than others with various aspects of running GV, although the issues seem to be different in each case (e.g., printing problems, problems changing outline labels, etc).

All the best,
Derek

Derek Cornish wrote:

>Cassius wrote: One positive item. I just discovered that if I copy text from a Windows file, I can paste it into GV by just clicking the right touchpad button. Also, if I highlight text in GV and then press Enter, the text is copied onto the clipboard and can be pasted into a Windows file.

Neither of these require my opening a menu.

Derel wrote: >On the positive items you mention, neither of those work in my setup. That certainly suggests that something is interfering with the defaults for the ntdvm window. As you say it may well be particular to your Toshiba setup. Have you tried looking in your win.ini and system.ini files to see what support for 16-bit applications they contain? Mine have a whole slew of stuff in them - none of which I have much clue about.

Lastly, do you have GV installed in any other XP computer - maybe a desktop one - and do you get the same problems there? Have you tried using an external mouse with the Toshiba?

-------------

Derek, I, too, am clueless about Win.ini, system.ini. I have not tried on another XP machine. I did try using a trackball (Kensington Expert Mouse) on this laptop. Although it worked marvelously on a Win 2000 machine, it caused all kinds of problems on my current laptop. Whether due to the Media Center or something Toshiba added, who knows?

Finally, perhaps my easier way to cut/paste that you can't do makes up for what you can do but I can't. Seems like "XP giveth and XP taketh away."

Thanks` again!

-c

Cassius wrote:

...Whether due to the Media Center or something Toshiba added, who
knows?

Finally, perhaps my easier way to cut/paste that you can't do makes up for
what you can do but I can't. Seems like "XP giveth and XP taketh away."

Ain't that the truth :-)

Derek