Beginning to see the light with org-mode
Started by zoe
on 9/8/2015
zoe
9/8/2015 7:55 pm
I have long been interested in the power of ConnectedText. However, I find the closed-database and lack of mobile support and data portability to be a dealbreaker.
For years I've heard about the power of Emacs org-mode. The superficial aspect is that .org files are plain text, and Emacs interprets them and works with them according to its own settings. However, digging deeper into the functionality (http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org4beginners.html it's clear that there are many very powerful features that are similar to those found in ConnectedText.
I'm finally starting to push beyond the initial Emacs learning curve, and I can see why people are fanatical about org-mode. It is really an elaborate way of showing and hiding pieces of plain text files of arbitrary size. There is no database, however it's possible to insert inline images and links to other files. The data in the .org files remains portable, transparent, and human-readable. Exporting to HTML is a joy.
This is the antithesis of "user-friendly," to be sure, but the rewards seem great for those willing to put in the time!
For years I've heard about the power of Emacs org-mode. The superficial aspect is that .org files are plain text, and Emacs interprets them and works with them according to its own settings. However, digging deeper into the functionality (http://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org4beginners.html it's clear that there are many very powerful features that are similar to those found in ConnectedText.
I'm finally starting to push beyond the initial Emacs learning curve, and I can see why people are fanatical about org-mode. It is really an elaborate way of showing and hiding pieces of plain text files of arbitrary size. There is no database, however it's possible to insert inline images and links to other files. The data in the .org files remains portable, transparent, and human-readable. Exporting to HTML is a joy.
This is the antithesis of "user-friendly," to be sure, but the rewards seem great for those willing to put in the time!
Dr Andus
9/8/2015 10:03 pm
zoe wrote:
Respect! :) I never got past the first video by one of the gurus (his name escapes me), though I'm intrigued by the system.
Out of curiosity, how do you solve the mobile support and data portability issue? Do you save the files in the cloud?
I'm finally starting to push beyond the initial Emacs learning curve
Respect! :) I never got past the first video by one of the gurus (his name escapes me), though I'm intrigued by the system.
Out of curiosity, how do you solve the mobile support and data portability issue? Do you save the files in the cloud?
Mick S
9/8/2015 10:06 pm
Like many regular posters on this forum, I've spent years trying to perfect my work-flow. There are only two pieces of software that have stood the test of time for me: Emacs org-mode and Ultra Recall (Directory Opus gets a special mention).
The major advantage of both is that data can be stored as plain text and accessed from almost anywhere. I typically keep data as plain text, organised on disk in a folder structure synced to a UR database.
While this is perhaps not quite as user friendly as some other approaches, it's unbeatable in terms of power and flexibility. I also rely quite heavily on Directory Opus to help keep things tidy.
Org-mode is incredibly powerful and with a little work can be made to fulfill an amazing range of tasks with relative ease. I've been a long time lurker on this forum and have often thought to myself when reading of some poster's data management tribulations "what this person really needs is org-mode". To be sure, org-mode does have a fairly steep learning curve but I’d say the same for Connected Text and many other popular applications. I can’t edit a Connected Text file on my phone or tablet but anything that can read plain text can deal with org-mode to at least a basic extent.
The major advantage of both is that data can be stored as plain text and accessed from almost anywhere. I typically keep data as plain text, organised on disk in a folder structure synced to a UR database.
While this is perhaps not quite as user friendly as some other approaches, it's unbeatable in terms of power and flexibility. I also rely quite heavily on Directory Opus to help keep things tidy.
Org-mode is incredibly powerful and with a little work can be made to fulfill an amazing range of tasks with relative ease. I've been a long time lurker on this forum and have often thought to myself when reading of some poster's data management tribulations "what this person really needs is org-mode". To be sure, org-mode does have a fairly steep learning curve but I’d say the same for Connected Text and many other popular applications. I can’t edit a Connected Text file on my phone or tablet but anything that can read plain text can deal with org-mode to at least a basic extent.
Lucas
9/9/2015 5:26 pm
I have dabbled in org-mode and see the potential, but here's my take, for what it's worth: I see potential in any of the following 3 scenarios:
1. A user-friendly GUI front-end for org-mode
2. More sophisticated plug-ins for text editors like Sublime Text or Atom that could achieve similar functionality
3. Totally new programs that achieve the same ends but maintain files in plain text.
With any of these three options, what I would want to see would be, for instance, the ability to have "smart folders" or "saved searches" or "filters", whereby clicking on the smart folder shows all lines of text for a given set of criteria. A great model of what I have in mind is the Mac program The Hit List. I would love to see something approaching The Hit List in terms of functionality but based on plain text. It just seems so much more efficient to have permanent smart folders than to have to scroll around or re-type search strings all the time. I realize, of course, that it's not entirely straightforward how such smart folders get saved in plain text, but there is currently a good filters plun-in for Sublime Text, so I'm sure this could be done.
1. A user-friendly GUI front-end for org-mode
2. More sophisticated plug-ins for text editors like Sublime Text or Atom that could achieve similar functionality
3. Totally new programs that achieve the same ends but maintain files in plain text.
With any of these three options, what I would want to see would be, for instance, the ability to have "smart folders" or "saved searches" or "filters", whereby clicking on the smart folder shows all lines of text for a given set of criteria. A great model of what I have in mind is the Mac program The Hit List. I would love to see something approaching The Hit List in terms of functionality but based on plain text. It just seems so much more efficient to have permanent smart folders than to have to scroll around or re-type search strings all the time. I realize, of course, that it's not entirely straightforward how such smart folders get saved in plain text, but there is currently a good filters plun-in for Sublime Text, so I'm sure this could be done.
MadaboutDana
9/10/2015 12:09 pm
Well, Ulysses is your app of choice here, with filters that can use multiple keywords (tags), text or dates, either inclusively or exclusively. And can be restricted to various levels of the hierarchy (assuming you've set up folders). In fact, Ulysses goes a long way towards being a top information management app. There are just a few shortcomings at the moment - notably the lack of linking between notes, and the lack of some kind of tag hierarchy (although you could easily set up your own, using smart filters - they can be duplicated, edited and reused; you could also set up 'anti-tag' hierarchies, i.e. showing all entries that **don't** contain (a) certain tag(s)).
And that's before you look at the very neat, very fast search function (with highlighting), which can be restricted to certain folders, but also to specific filters, i.e. you can search within a filter to narrow down results still further. Oh, and filters can be "nested", too, just as folders can (i.e. you can see the contents of child folders/filters as you move up the hierarchical tree - an extremely useful feature shared by very few other apps. In fact, only one Windows app occurs to me off the cuff: GoldenNotes).
Plus Ulysses looks nice, which is more than can be said for emacs, sublimetext or atom, I fear!
And that's before you look at the very neat, very fast search function (with highlighting), which can be restricted to certain folders, but also to specific filters, i.e. you can search within a filter to narrow down results still further. Oh, and filters can be "nested", too, just as folders can (i.e. you can see the contents of child folders/filters as you move up the hierarchical tree - an extremely useful feature shared by very few other apps. In fact, only one Windows app occurs to me off the cuff: GoldenNotes).
Plus Ulysses looks nice, which is more than can be said for emacs, sublimetext or atom, I fear!
Prion
9/10/2015 12:23 pm
Back to the topic of org-mode.
I have meant to use org-mode more extensively for a number of years now and really would but currently I am not advanced enough to reach a productive-enough state with org to make it my only system at least for a while.
1) One reason is that I am often working with documents circulated around by colleagues to which (i.e. the documents) I would need to refer.Is there an easy way to put in nicely formatted links to things in the file system easily?
2) you mentioned inline images. I would like to learn more about this but although I got them to work, their inclusion made scrolling uncomfortably jumpy.
3) Is there a way to make the rendering look a little nicer? Barebones and functional is okay but emacs is sometimes a bit too 80ies and I suspect on purpose.
The information floating around for org is very dispersed and at times conflicting.
I would be immensely grateful if you'd share some of your insights. The org community is very helpful, too, but mostly concerned with difficulties at a level I am not likely to reach within the next year.
Thanks for your post and looking forward to more.
Best
Prion
I have meant to use org-mode more extensively for a number of years now and really would but currently I am not advanced enough to reach a productive-enough state with org to make it my only system at least for a while.
1) One reason is that I am often working with documents circulated around by colleagues to which (i.e. the documents) I would need to refer.Is there an easy way to put in nicely formatted links to things in the file system easily?
2) you mentioned inline images. I would like to learn more about this but although I got them to work, their inclusion made scrolling uncomfortably jumpy.
3) Is there a way to make the rendering look a little nicer? Barebones and functional is okay but emacs is sometimes a bit too 80ies and I suspect on purpose.
The information floating around for org is very dispersed and at times conflicting.
I would be immensely grateful if you'd share some of your insights. The org community is very helpful, too, but mostly concerned with difficulties at a level I am not likely to reach within the next year.
Thanks for your post and looking forward to more.
Best
Prion
zoe
9/10/2015 2:53 pm
Here's where I'm coming from in learning org-mode:
- What I like most about it is that an item (which is just a line of text) can be transformed and structured in many different ways. The syntax is easy to see within the editor, but lots and lots of stuff can be tucked away inside, retrieved quickly with keyboard commands, and even re-filed under different headings. Filtering out the file according to the metadata is simple and intuitive.
- I am using Emacs ONLY for org-mode. I'm just considering org-mode within Emacs to be a single piece of software that I would learn like any other. Learning the keyboard shortcuts is somewhat of a pain, but it hasn't taken me too long to get up to speed on it. I use lots of software that has distinctive keyboard shortcuts for mastering the workflow (Photoshop, for example), and learning the key commands to me is just part of learning to use the software.
- I have never used Emacs before for anything else. For plaintext/coding tasks at work I use SublimeText and quite appreciate its interface and simplicity.
- I'm syncing everything with Dropbox.
To answer your questions:
1) You can put a link to any file on your file system with simple syntax:
[[file:c:/path/to/the/file.pdf]] This creates a clickable link to the file. You can also use relative links. For example, if your .org file is in a folder that also has an "Images" folder, you can link to an image by typing [[file:./Images/image.jpg]]
2) Inline images work but are shown at full size unless you have ImageMagick installed. You can toggle them on an off. When they're off, click the image link and it opens in a side-pane. Emacs can show the image itself, which is a nice feature that many text editors lack.
3) You can set the default font in Emacs to be whatever you want. By default it's monospaced because of the assumption that you're programming, but you can make it whatever. You can also set org-mode to indent your outline levels by default. Emacs has so little to it (it's pretty much just a series of rectangles) that there's not much else to modernize.
- Related: you can export your .org files in a matter of keystrokes. You can export to HTML (nicely formatted with tables of contents, add your own CSS if you want), formatted plaintext, even LaTeX and PDF.
- What I like most about it is that an item (which is just a line of text) can be transformed and structured in many different ways. The syntax is easy to see within the editor, but lots and lots of stuff can be tucked away inside, retrieved quickly with keyboard commands, and even re-filed under different headings. Filtering out the file according to the metadata is simple and intuitive.
- I am using Emacs ONLY for org-mode. I'm just considering org-mode within Emacs to be a single piece of software that I would learn like any other. Learning the keyboard shortcuts is somewhat of a pain, but it hasn't taken me too long to get up to speed on it. I use lots of software that has distinctive keyboard shortcuts for mastering the workflow (Photoshop, for example), and learning the key commands to me is just part of learning to use the software.
- I have never used Emacs before for anything else. For plaintext/coding tasks at work I use SublimeText and quite appreciate its interface and simplicity.
- I'm syncing everything with Dropbox.
To answer your questions:
1) You can put a link to any file on your file system with simple syntax:
[[file:c:/path/to/the/file.pdf]] This creates a clickable link to the file. You can also use relative links. For example, if your .org file is in a folder that also has an "Images" folder, you can link to an image by typing [[file:./Images/image.jpg]]
2) Inline images work but are shown at full size unless you have ImageMagick installed. You can toggle them on an off. When they're off, click the image link and it opens in a side-pane. Emacs can show the image itself, which is a nice feature that many text editors lack.
3) You can set the default font in Emacs to be whatever you want. By default it's monospaced because of the assumption that you're programming, but you can make it whatever. You can also set org-mode to indent your outline levels by default. Emacs has so little to it (it's pretty much just a series of rectangles) that there's not much else to modernize.
- Related: you can export your .org files in a matter of keystrokes. You can export to HTML (nicely formatted with tables of contents, add your own CSS if you want), formatted plaintext, even LaTeX and PDF.
zoe
9/18/2015 3:35 pm
Here's another update after a week or so of more use. The more I use org-mode, the more I am convinced that the designer seems to think the same way I do! This is refreshing compared to many other programs I have used.
- org-mode supports hoisting, in addition to folding. With a long outline, you may open and close various parts, but you can also open a new window and show only the subtree you want to work on. This hoisted view is updating in all other views, but you can't see it...
- The ability to archive todos is brilliant. A dedicated archive file lives in the directory, and with a key command, the heading is tossed into the archive file, along with nice metadata about what time the item was archived, where it was originally in the source document tree, what tags it had, etc. So things can be filed away, but aren't truly lost. :-D
- The agenda system is complex, but quite useful. Agenda commands provide filtered lists of tasks or other items, and can be organized by dates, deadlines, tags, properties, etc.
The downsides:
- Getting MobileOrg working is a bit confusing. I now have it up and running on my iPhone, and it's useful for referring to my org files when away from the computer, or for taking down very limited snippets of information. It's by no means full-featured, but it does provide a good amount of mobile accessibility.
- Image support on Windows is less than ideal. I'm still unsure of how to get the images to scale, because it involves configuration of ImageMagick on a registry level that I don't understand. If you're in *nix, this is no problem, apparently.
- org-mode supports hoisting, in addition to folding. With a long outline, you may open and close various parts, but you can also open a new window and show only the subtree you want to work on. This hoisted view is updating in all other views, but you can't see it...
- The ability to archive todos is brilliant. A dedicated archive file lives in the directory, and with a key command, the heading is tossed into the archive file, along with nice metadata about what time the item was archived, where it was originally in the source document tree, what tags it had, etc. So things can be filed away, but aren't truly lost. :-D
- The agenda system is complex, but quite useful. Agenda commands provide filtered lists of tasks or other items, and can be organized by dates, deadlines, tags, properties, etc.
The downsides:
- Getting MobileOrg working is a bit confusing. I now have it up and running on my iPhone, and it's useful for referring to my org files when away from the computer, or for taking down very limited snippets of information. It's by no means full-featured, but it does provide a good amount of mobile accessibility.
- Image support on Windows is less than ideal. I'm still unsure of how to get the images to scale, because it involves configuration of ImageMagick on a registry level that I don't understand. If you're in *nix, this is no problem, apparently.
PIMfan
10/18/2015 6:19 pm
Bumped into a really good video showing the power and flexibility of Org-mode. A pretty amazing toolkit.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgizHHd7nOo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgizHHd7nOo
jaslar
10/21/2015 8:03 pm
I've been spending some time today with org-mode. And I realized: when I got my Kaypro (back in 1982) it came with Perfect Writer, which was a sort of emacs subset. So some of those commands are in my fingers. And I have to say that it's a lot easier to learn a new package when you're connected to the internet and can type up the commands. (This process is easier than searching the built-in help files, or at least right now it is.)
You all are right. This is a powerful system. I was looking at orgzly on Android, too, a sort of org-mode front end, but without, alas, folding.
You all are right. This is a powerful system. I was looking at orgzly on Android, too, a sort of org-mode front end, but without, alas, folding.
Jack Baty
10/22/2015 8:56 pm
Like many here, I've used just about every possible combination of software and systems to manage my "workflow". It's fun!
I am a long-time Vim user but had always been envious of my colleagues using Org Mode. I'd tried Emacs a number of times but just couldn't get passed the key commands and the configuration's learning curve.
I few months ago I discovered Spacemacs (https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs That got me over the hump, since it uses Vim keybindings and most commands have a SPACE-key counterpart, which I like.
I thought it would be a short-lived experiment, but I've become completely addicted to Org Mode. It does everything, and what it doesn't do I can _make_ it do. Learning the intricacies of the Agenda view has been life-changing. Sounds hyperbolic but it really is great if you have the patience.
Org Mode isn't for everyone. It's geeky, not pretty, and far from user-friendly. It's been worth the effort for me.
I am a long-time Vim user but had always been envious of my colleagues using Org Mode. I'd tried Emacs a number of times but just couldn't get passed the key commands and the configuration's learning curve.
I few months ago I discovered Spacemacs (https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs That got me over the hump, since it uses Vim keybindings and most commands have a SPACE-key counterpart, which I like.
I thought it would be a short-lived experiment, but I've become completely addicted to Org Mode. It does everything, and what it doesn't do I can _make_ it do. Learning the intricacies of the Agenda view has been life-changing. Sounds hyperbolic but it really is great if you have the patience.
Org Mode isn't for everyone. It's geeky, not pretty, and far from user-friendly. It's been worth the effort for me.
jaslar
10/23/2015 4:54 pm
Old but hilarious page about being seduced by emacs.
http://mph.puddingbowl.org/2010/02/org-mode-in-your-pocket-is-a-gnu-shaped-devil/
http://mph.puddingbowl.org/2010/02/org-mode-in-your-pocket-is-a-gnu-shaped-devil/
zoe
10/28/2015 3:56 pm
A great video explanation from Jay Dixit about "Emacs/Org-Mode for Writers," with a nice shout-out to this forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtieBc3KptU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtieBc3KptU
Stephen Zeoli
10/29/2015 3:10 pm
My response to his initial inquiry made his presentation. Unfortunately, he didn't find it very useful.
The presentation makes it clear (as have all the Org-Mode fans here), that Emacs/Org-Mode is super powerful. Sadly, watching him use it, it still looked like all the stuff that streams across computer screens in a TV episode whenever a hacker is breaking into the some secret government agency. They pound out the keys, a swirl of alpha numeric stuff rips across the monitor, and the hacker says, "See that? They're planning something called operation Org-Mode." Or something like that. I guess, what I'm saying, is that Scrivener's screen, which he didn't like, makes a lot more sense to me that Org-Mode. That's not a comment about the app. It's comment about me.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this. It is interesting.
Steve Z.
zoe wrote:
The presentation makes it clear (as have all the Org-Mode fans here), that Emacs/Org-Mode is super powerful. Sadly, watching him use it, it still looked like all the stuff that streams across computer screens in a TV episode whenever a hacker is breaking into the some secret government agency. They pound out the keys, a swirl of alpha numeric stuff rips across the monitor, and the hacker says, "See that? They're planning something called operation Org-Mode." Or something like that. I guess, what I'm saying, is that Scrivener's screen, which he didn't like, makes a lot more sense to me that Org-Mode. That's not a comment about the app. It's comment about me.
Anyway, thanks for sharing this. It is interesting.
Steve Z.
zoe wrote:
A great video explanation from Jay Dixit about "Emacs/Org-Mode for
Writers," with a nice shout-out to this forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtieBc3KptU
Dr Andus
10/29/2015 6:50 pm
zoe wrote:
Thanks for that! It was an interesting case study about how this forum has helped someone to find the answer to their problem.
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
It probably comes down to what suits one's temperament and how many different tools one wants to use.
Org-Mode seems to combine an outliner, word processor, calendar, task and project manager and who knows what else, while Scrivener is mainly and primarily an outlining and writing application.
I had a similar experience with Scrivener as Jay. Even though it does have a distraction-free feature, somehow I also found it too busy for me.
The distraction-free writing aspect of Org-Mode does appeal to me (though I'm not ready to invest my time to learn it yet).
But in contrast to Jay I'm happy to use multiple software, so I can outline in one (e.g. Gingko), have tasks in another (WorkFlowy), store data in another (CT), and write in yet another (WriteMonkey).
BTW, Jay complains in the video that WorkFlowy doesn't have keyboard shortcuts. That's not quite correct. While it's probably nothing on the scale of Org-Mode, WorkFlowy has all kinds of keyboard shortcuts to navigate it and move stuff around. I'm not even sure you need to use a mouse at all.
A great video explanation from Jay Dixit about "Emacs/Org-Mode for
Writers," with a nice shout-out to this forum:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtieBc3KptU
Thanks for that! It was an interesting case study about how this forum has helped someone to find the answer to their problem.
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
Scrivener's screen, which he didn't
like, makes a lot more sense to me that Org-Mode.
It probably comes down to what suits one's temperament and how many different tools one wants to use.
Org-Mode seems to combine an outliner, word processor, calendar, task and project manager and who knows what else, while Scrivener is mainly and primarily an outlining and writing application.
I had a similar experience with Scrivener as Jay. Even though it does have a distraction-free feature, somehow I also found it too busy for me.
The distraction-free writing aspect of Org-Mode does appeal to me (though I'm not ready to invest my time to learn it yet).
But in contrast to Jay I'm happy to use multiple software, so I can outline in one (e.g. Gingko), have tasks in another (WorkFlowy), store data in another (CT), and write in yet another (WriteMonkey).
BTW, Jay complains in the video that WorkFlowy doesn't have keyboard shortcuts. That's not quite correct. While it's probably nothing on the scale of Org-Mode, WorkFlowy has all kinds of keyboard shortcuts to navigate it and move stuff around. I'm not even sure you need to use a mouse at all.
jaslar
11/29/2015 9:48 pm
I'm continuing to explore emacs org-mode. I learned four things today that might help or be of interest to others.
1. "M-x auto-fill-mode" is a toggle that turns on/off the addition of a hard return at the end of each line, set at a column you choose. But I learned that if you turn it off, then type "M-x visual-line-mode" (another toggle), emacs then behaves like most modern text editors: it wraps at the screen border. You can also turn this on in the menu (Options>Line wrapping in this buffer>Word wrap). This makes it much easier to cut and paste from and to it from other programs. It's surprising to me how much easier this seems to make emacs to use.
2. There is a markdown export. Emacs exports are really good. http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/4279/exporting-from-org-mode-to-markdown
I haven't worked out yet how to install it, but intend to.
3. There is a markdown MODE. http://jblevins.org/projects/markdown-mode/
Again, I haven't installed it yet, but I've been thinking....
With Dropbox, org-mode on Windows and Linux, and Editorial on my iPad, this really does start to look like a cross-platform solution for writing.
What I find particularly appealing about emacs is the really extraordinary richness of commands. A example: move the cursor forward and back not only by line and paragraph, but by SENTENCE. Shouldn't every editor have that?
4. emacs also has a taskpaper mode.
https://github.com/jedthehumanoid/taskpaper.el
Which again allows for cross-platform use, this time for task management.
As others have noted, the learning curve is relatively steep, but it appears that emacs really can do everything.
1. "M-x auto-fill-mode" is a toggle that turns on/off the addition of a hard return at the end of each line, set at a column you choose. But I learned that if you turn it off, then type "M-x visual-line-mode" (another toggle), emacs then behaves like most modern text editors: it wraps at the screen border. You can also turn this on in the menu (Options>Line wrapping in this buffer>Word wrap). This makes it much easier to cut and paste from and to it from other programs. It's surprising to me how much easier this seems to make emacs to use.
2. There is a markdown export. Emacs exports are really good. http://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/4279/exporting-from-org-mode-to-markdown
I haven't worked out yet how to install it, but intend to.
3. There is a markdown MODE. http://jblevins.org/projects/markdown-mode/
Again, I haven't installed it yet, but I've been thinking....
With Dropbox, org-mode on Windows and Linux, and Editorial on my iPad, this really does start to look like a cross-platform solution for writing.
What I find particularly appealing about emacs is the really extraordinary richness of commands. A example: move the cursor forward and back not only by line and paragraph, but by SENTENCE. Shouldn't every editor have that?
4. emacs also has a taskpaper mode.
https://github.com/jedthehumanoid/taskpaper.el
Which again allows for cross-platform use, this time for task management.
As others have noted, the learning curve is relatively steep, but it appears that emacs really can do everything.
MadaboutDana
11/30/2015 11:06 am
On the one hand: splendid. On the other hand: where's the elegance? The simplicity?
The answer, I suppose, is that if you want such things, you can always code them yourself... ;-)
The answer, I suppose, is that if you want such things, you can always code them yourself... ;-)
jaslar
11/30/2015 8:39 pm
Simple, it ain't!
I suppose the "elegance" is what appears to be the goal of the religion of Emacs: to live entirely within it. And *I* certainly won't be doing any coding myself - I'm still working out how come my init file doesn't seem to have any effect on Emacs behavior at all.
But as I say, there are some strangely compelling commands in org-mode. My hope is to put together a start-up Emacs launch that does the things I want it to do (a relatively small set of functions, when you get down to it), and then never worry about it again. But then, once a CRIMPer, always a CRIMPer.
I suppose the "elegance" is what appears to be the goal of the religion of Emacs: to live entirely within it. And *I* certainly won't be doing any coding myself - I'm still working out how come my init file doesn't seem to have any effect on Emacs behavior at all.
But as I say, there are some strangely compelling commands in org-mode. My hope is to put together a start-up Emacs launch that does the things I want it to do (a relatively small set of functions, when you get down to it), and then never worry about it again. But then, once a CRIMPer, always a CRIMPer.
Dr Andus
11/30/2015 9:57 pm
Hi (current and prospective) Org-mode heads,
I enjoy reading and am intrigued about your Org-mode adventures (though too time-poor to try it just yet for myself), so keep up the posts...
I enjoy reading and am intrigued about your Org-mode adventures (though too time-poor to try it just yet for myself), so keep up the posts...
shatteredmindofbob
12/1/2015 12:34 am
So, I've recently found myself with more free time than I should and decided to tinker with Org-Mode. My feelings are mixed.
I feel like the biggest stumbling block to get over is realizing that Emacs, at least in its modern incarnation, is not that hard to use. It just does everything in its power to make it seem that way.
I mean, I don't want to admit to how long I spent trying to enable spellcheck to ultimately find out I only needed to add one line to the configuration file...
It seems that for anything you'd want to do with it, there's 20 to 30 different solutions that can be found, all with varying degrees of complexity...and varying odds of actually working.
With that out of the way, Org-Mode itself is probably the best outliner that runs on Windows that isn't a web app and is still supported.
That said, I'm not sure I can bring myself to recommend it, especially on CRIMP central here. See, the thing about Emacs is that you can do almost *anything* with it by making a few modifications. And for someone who is very likely to procrastinate by tinkering with app setups rather than doing the actual work...well, this feels almost dangerous.
Then there's the frustration of actually getting it up and running. I get the feeling that once one actually gets it configured the way they want, it'll work wonderfully. But whether it's worth the initial time investment to actually get to that point, I really don't know.
I feel like the biggest stumbling block to get over is realizing that Emacs, at least in its modern incarnation, is not that hard to use. It just does everything in its power to make it seem that way.
I mean, I don't want to admit to how long I spent trying to enable spellcheck to ultimately find out I only needed to add one line to the configuration file...
It seems that for anything you'd want to do with it, there's 20 to 30 different solutions that can be found, all with varying degrees of complexity...and varying odds of actually working.
With that out of the way, Org-Mode itself is probably the best outliner that runs on Windows that isn't a web app and is still supported.
That said, I'm not sure I can bring myself to recommend it, especially on CRIMP central here. See, the thing about Emacs is that you can do almost *anything* with it by making a few modifications. And for someone who is very likely to procrastinate by tinkering with app setups rather than doing the actual work...well, this feels almost dangerous.
Then there's the frustration of actually getting it up and running. I get the feeling that once one actually gets it configured the way they want, it'll work wonderfully. But whether it's worth the initial time investment to actually get to that point, I really don't know.
Dr Andus
12/1/2015 9:21 pm
A discussion on Hacker News about the pros and cons of Org-mode. Apparently there are some issues with version updates.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10629107
While I'm intrigued by the concept, I'm still unconvinced whether the amount of time required to learn it and fiddle with it would be worth it to me personally (productivity-wise).
At the moment the combination of Google Calendar, WorkFlowy, ConnectedText, WriteMonkey and Gingko pretty much takes care of most of my productivity, writing and notes database needs. I suppose Org-mode could replace the whole lot: but then I quite enjoy using these tools...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10629107
While I'm intrigued by the concept, I'm still unconvinced whether the amount of time required to learn it and fiddle with it would be worth it to me personally (productivity-wise).
At the moment the combination of Google Calendar, WorkFlowy, ConnectedText, WriteMonkey and Gingko pretty much takes care of most of my productivity, writing and notes database needs. I suppose Org-mode could replace the whole lot: but then I quite enjoy using these tools...
Dr Andus
12/1/2015 9:25 pm
shatteredmindofbob wrote:
Yup, that's definitely something I'd be worried about, too.
That said, I'm not sure I can bring myself to recommend it, especially
on CRIMP central here. See, the thing about Emacs is that you can do
almost *anything* with it by making a few modifications. And for someone
who is very likely to procrastinate by tinkering with app setups rather
than doing the actual work...well, this feels almost dangerous.
Yup, that's definitely something I'd be worried about, too.
shatteredmindofbob
12/3/2015 8:39 pm
Alright, I believe that I, too, have now seen the light.
Sort of. At least, I've figured out how to make Org-Mode do what I want an outliner to do. In my case, I've always wanted to be able to just dump a whole lot of crap in, almost stream of consciousness writing then sort it out and make it coherent later.
The only downside is that to do it, *everything* needs to be a heading. Though, I suppose that's not terribly different from say, WorkFlowy which functions by making everything a list item. But, at least as far as I can tell, sorting can be done much faster in Org-Mode. Also, it's not a web app.
That said, I don't see using it outside of straight outlining. And that's fine, it's easy enough to convert the Org outline to Markdown so I can turn it into a proper article in an editor I'm more comfortable with...one that doesn't require hitting two or even three keyboard shortcuts to do what can be done with one in a dedicated writing app.
Sort of. At least, I've figured out how to make Org-Mode do what I want an outliner to do. In my case, I've always wanted to be able to just dump a whole lot of crap in, almost stream of consciousness writing then sort it out and make it coherent later.
The only downside is that to do it, *everything* needs to be a heading. Though, I suppose that's not terribly different from say, WorkFlowy which functions by making everything a list item. But, at least as far as I can tell, sorting can be done much faster in Org-Mode. Also, it's not a web app.
That said, I don't see using it outside of straight outlining. And that's fine, it's easy enough to convert the Org outline to Markdown so I can turn it into a proper article in an editor I'm more comfortable with...one that doesn't require hitting two or even three keyboard shortcuts to do what can be done with one in a dedicated writing app.
jaslar
12/6/2015 7:55 am
Another six hours spent on emacs. But I figured out how to find and install "packages" that allow for markdown-mode, preview (on Linux, I can't find an easy way to do the preview on Windows), and with pandoc, a really remarkable ability from the command line of both operating systems to move files among org-mode, markdown, html, and odt.
Now there would really be no excuse not to actually write something. But the point is that files are now very portable in a way they weren't before, and can be editing (because plain text) on any platform. That's good, right?
Another nice trick: in emacs markdown mode, there's no text folding/outlining, but you CAN navigate by headers easily.
Now there would really be no excuse not to actually write something. But the point is that files are now very portable in a way they weren't before, and can be editing (because plain text) on any platform. That's good, right?
Another nice trick: in emacs markdown mode, there's no text folding/outlining, but you CAN navigate by headers easily.
Gorski
12/6/2015 6:39 pm
jaslar wrote:
Another nice trick: in emacs markdown mode, there's no text
folding/outlining, but you CAN navigate by headers easily.
This isn't correct, at least in my installation. You can fold, unfold in markdown mode with tab or shift-tab, like with org mode.
And you you can move headings and accompanying text with Shift-Alt and the up and down arrow keys.