Mark Bernstein quotes a new user who wrote this summary in the Tinderbox forum:
http://www.markbernstein.org/Jan15/WhatIsTinderbox.html

From time to time, I feel attracted by Tinderbox. But I do not have an application that really requires a software that powerful.

Franz, thanks for that.

I appreciate the layered explanation.

At one point there was speculation of a Windows version of Tinderbox. Have you heard anything about that lately?

I wonder if, with the recent new version of Tinderbox whether now might be the time the developers are working on something for the Windows world.

Daly

Franz Grieser wrote:

Mark Bernstein quotes a new user who wrote this summary in the Tinderbox
forum:
http://www.markbernstein.org/Jan15/WhatIsTinderbox.html

From time to time, I feel attracted by Tinderbox. But I do not have an
application that really requires a software that powerful.

Daly.

No, I haven't heard of a Windows version in the last years.

Franz

Thanks for the link, Franz. Although I use Tinderbox, I still find other users' summaries of it interesting to read (although the best for a beginner remains, in my view, the series on Steve Z.'s blog).

Daly, don't hold your breath!

Reading the (quite short) summary Franz linked to, I think it doesn't duplicate what Steve Z. has written, and would definitely be useful to anyone who's considering whether to invest in the application. It's become a commonplace to say that Tinderbox's learning curve is steep: one value of the summary is that it lists the main stages of that curve, and illustrates very well what Steve (and others) have written - a novice user really only needs to climb as high as he or she wishes at the outset, and still will find the software of value.

(Thanks for the nice comments, Hugh.)

That evaluation of Tinderbox is interesting and helpful. I have a completely different point of view (and that's the operable wording... it's just MY point of view).

While Eastgate pushes Tinderbox as the "tool for notes," It has a really powerful outliner. AND it has the most flexible and versatile white board in its Map View. Combined, these tools are for me unbeatable for thinking and planning.

Here is an amalgam of two screen captures show both the same information in Map view and Outline view (this was done in version 6):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yilypymljl4nso1/2015%20Marketing%20Plan%20-%20Tinderbox%20Map%20and%20Outline%20views.jpg?dl=0

I don't know any other application that provides two such powerful views of your information.

As a note-taker, I think Tinderbox is excellent for specific instances. What I mean by this is that if you are taking notes in a meeting or a workshop or a class, it is outstanding. But I don't believe Tinderbox is a good choice for storing ALL your notes, and that is because Tbx works best when you make a new document for every project, and there's no interconnectivity between documents. Also, Tbx is about your own input. It isn't made for doing a lot of clipping from the web or other digital sources. So Tbx isn't a replacement for an app like Evernote or Devonthink. I think if you get it thinking you can put all your notes into one document, you'll be overwhelmed... not to mention that I'm not convinced huge files work well in Tbx.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this amazing app.

Steve Z.

Yes, less a tool for notes, more a tool for thoughts. (Although I can see why Eastgate don't use a strapline like this: it sounds pompous and overblown, but in reality it isn't.)

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

As a note-taker, I think Tinderbox is excellent for specific instances.
What I mean by this is that if you are taking notes in a meeting or a
workshop or a class, it is outstanding. But I don't believe Tinderbox is
a good choice for storing ALL your notes, and that is because Tbx works
best when you make a new document for every project, and there's no
interconnectivity between documents. Also, Tbx is about your own input.
It isn't made for doing a lot of clipping from the web or other digital
sources. So Tbx isn't a replacement for an app like Evernote or
Devonthink. I think if you get it thinking you can put all your notes
into one document, you'll be overwhelmed... not to mention that I'm not
convinced huge files work well in Tbx.

These are my thoughts exactly about the strengths and weaknesses of Tbx, well put. Weaknesses might be the wrong word but Tinderbox just like any program does not work particularly well when being asked to do the wrong thing. The few largish Tbx files that I keep are rather sluggish but I keep adding to them because the topic does not lend itself to being split into several subtopics with one smaller Tbx file each.
The question remains: What *IS* the best home for all the notes then if the programs with excellent metadata and visualization capabilities do not scale well and those that do are rather poor in terms of making use of metadata?
This never-ending quest seems to keep an entire software industry alive.
Prion

Prion wrote:

What *IS* the best home for all the notes then if
the programs with excellent metadata and visualization capabilities do
not scale well and those that do are rather poor in terms of making use
of metadata?
This never-ending quest seems to keep an entire software industry alive.
Prion

Prion wrote:

What *IS* the best home for all the notes then if
the programs with excellent metadata and visualization capabilities do
not scale well and those that do are rather poor in terms of making use
of metadata?
This never-ending quest seems to keep an entire software industry
alive.
Prion

That is an interesting question - and unanswerable in terms of a single application, I imagine - I am absolutely not an expert on these matters - at current levels of personal-computing power. The - relatively unsatisfactory - answer, I suspect, is to harness two applications together with hyperlinks, one application to store data and the other application to manipulate limited selections of items, their metadata and visualisation - for example, DevonThink and Tinderbox. But that's just my untutored guess.

Maybe a small industry?

Tinderbox is sui generis -- there's not much out there that supports unconstrained making of metadata for each note. The only thing close in OS X computerland I can think of is a DBMS like FileMaker -- which is certainly *not* something I'd recommend for note taking.

OTOH -- a handwritten notebook is all about metadata: pictures, marginalia, pointers to other notes, etc. As much as I enjoy Tinderbox, many times when I'm working and getting frustrated with fiddling with attributes and rules, I'll just turn off the computer, grab a ledger sheet (11x17 in the U.S.) and start writing and drawing. I get a lot farther a lot faster working out ideas with pencil and paper than Tinderbox -- or any software -- can take me. And, when I'm done I just scan it and keep the notes.

Prion wrote

The question remains: What *IS* the best home for all the notes then if the programs with excellent metadata and visualization capabilities do not scale well and those that do are rather poor in terms of making use of metadata?
This never-ending quest seems to keep an entire software industry alive.

Prion wrote:
What *IS* the best home for all the notes then if
the programs with excellent metadata and visualization capabilities do
not scale well and those that do are rather poor in terms of making use
of metadata?

Us die-hard CT fans would obviously say ConnectedText ;-) where you can have some fun with metadata (although it doesn't match the visualisation tools of Tinderbox). But it can do well what Hugh is suggesting below: link to external tools, such as Freeplane mind maps and back. This is not to say that I don't have Tinderbox envy as a Windows user :-)

Hugh wrote:

The - relatively
unsatisfactory - answer, I suspect, is to harness two applications
together with hyperlinks, one application to store data and the other
application to manipulate limited selections of items, their metadata
and visualisation

As it turns out, there is an update of Tinderbox available. This version includes a new introductory feature. Per Mark Bernstein:

"Tinderbox 6.1.3 includes a brand-new Help menu item, Getting Started With Tinderbox, which provides a detailed walkthrough for new Tinderbox users. The walkthrough explore outlines, maps, the new Attribute Browser, agents, and lots more, all in the context of an actual Tinderbox task. There’s also a new Badge Picker, hundreds of new badges, and lots of additional polish."

Just an FYI.

Steve Z.

As an addendum: I just looked at the new Getting Started with Tinderbox help resource, and it turns out to be far more extensive than I expected. It is a 114-page PDF. Quite a robust document that I intended to read start to finish, because I'm not as familiar with version 6 as I'd like to be.

Steve Z.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

As an addendum: I just looked at the new Getting Started with Tinderbox
help resource, and it turns out to be far more extensive than I
expected. It is a 114-page PDF. Quite a robust document that I intended
to read start to finish, because I'm not as familiar with version 6 as
I'd like to be.

Steve Z.

Thanks Steve. Although I have a copy of 6.0.4, I've continued to preserve version 5 whilst Eastgate irons out the wrinkles of 6, and prepares a help file. This new "Getting Started..." resource may be the incentive I need to (mentally) upgrade.

Thanks Steve. I've read that new how-to from Eastgate. It is very interesting and helpful. Because it is a detailed step-wise walk-through for creating a complicated document, it is worth spending a few hours over several days -- and experimenting with ones own documents as you read along. I hope there will be more of these "tutorials" from Eastgate in the future.

Finally....

I bought a MacBook Air 13.3" yesterday.

First impression compared to buying a new notebook with Windows:
I could work the the MacBook Air 20 minutes after the first switch on, indredible.

But I don't want to start a OSX/Windows discussion. I like both systems and they both have their good and bad sides.

Further, and more important, I am a Tinderbox user now.
Many thanks for all the links and suggestions here, they are all very useful, especially the 114 page tutorial available in Tinderbox 6.

Best,
Dominik