WinCatalog
Started by 22111
on 1/23/2014
22111
1/23/2014 10:49 pm
Somebody mentioned WinCatalog ( www.wincatalog.com ) on bits today; I had never heard of this prog (and it has never been mentioned here), and the price (50 bucks) seems "excessive", by comparison (all the more so since U.S. customer could "buy" it for free, by "trial pay", for just some two cinema seats e.g. (which would never cost the official price of this prog), but having had a quick look at its feature list, I'm aghast: This prog seems to offer everything that all current file managers, free and paid, unforgivably have left out.
It's more than just "interesting", it seems to be something splendidly useful, and if it's up to it claims, 50 bucks is more than acceptable. I'm really impressed, and I'll trial.
It's more than just "interesting", it seems to be something splendidly useful, and if it's up to it claims, 50 bucks is more than acceptable. I'm really impressed, and I'll trial.
Wayne K
1/23/2014 11:29 pm
I don't see it on Bits today but thanks for bringing it up. I'm going to try it. I've been trying to better organize my PDF's. I wasn't looking for anything too complicated: just something that will allow me to add columns of simple information (eg author, source, date, etc). I thought it would be easy to find multiple programs to handle this but that hasn't been the case so far.
I first looked to my file managers. XYplorer does a nice job overall but has only two columns that can be customized. Donald said he's going to increase this in a future upgrade.
Xplorer2 provides columns but you can't add information to them (!). I emailed them about it and support confirmed that. They did not answer my question about why they provide columns that can't be modified.
Opus Directory has a nice assortment of columns and I might end up using it. My one complaint is that you can't enter information directly in a column. You have to go to the attributes pane, which I find awkward.
I thought MyInfo would handle this with ease but that didn't work out either. If you select a column of pdf's in your file manager and drag it into MyInfo, it creates a nice list of files. Unfortunately, these are not links; they're embedded files. There's an 11 MB limit on file sizes, which alone makes it unusable for me. In addition, if you modify the original file, you have to remember to embed the new version in MyInfo. Too much trouble.
Zoot might do the job but I haven't tried it yet.
Wayne
I first looked to my file managers. XYplorer does a nice job overall but has only two columns that can be customized. Donald said he's going to increase this in a future upgrade.
Xplorer2 provides columns but you can't add information to them (!). I emailed them about it and support confirmed that. They did not answer my question about why they provide columns that can't be modified.
Opus Directory has a nice assortment of columns and I might end up using it. My one complaint is that you can't enter information directly in a column. You have to go to the attributes pane, which I find awkward.
I thought MyInfo would handle this with ease but that didn't work out either. If you select a column of pdf's in your file manager and drag it into MyInfo, it creates a nice list of files. Unfortunately, these are not links; they're embedded files. There's an 11 MB limit on file sizes, which alone makes it unusable for me. In addition, if you modify the original file, you have to remember to embed the new version in MyInfo. Too much trouble.
Zoot might do the job but I haven't tried it yet.
Wayne
Wayne K
1/24/2014 1:13 am
Big letdown. Looks like you can't customize columns.
Wayne K
1/24/2014 1:31 am
I went to "Alternative To" website and entered Wincatalog. The top choice returned was "Where Is it". I just installed it and gave it a quick try. No customizable columns there, either.
22111
1/24/2014 11:53 am
Wayne,
It'not on bits, it's just somebody who mentioned this prog in the Zentimo offering there.
"Xplorer2 provides columns but you can’t add information to them (!). I emailed them about it and support confirmed that. They did not answer my question about why they provide columns that can’t be modified."
I gave up on x2, exactly because of this style of "support" there you describe here, I'm fed up with such stubbornness of a developer who has had good ideas but then does not give them the necessary follow-up (and it seems his (very nice and trying to be helpful all the way they can, btw, but they can neither spice up the prog, nor decide for the developer, unfortunately) "boys" did all the work, for free, in the pdf help - incredible!).
I didn't have time yet to look into WC (oh! nice acronym, all your stuff put into the loo!), but I strongly suppose that by "columns", you mean ntfs attributes, that famous ADS info that Windows has taken away after XP, and which survives in those file managers you mention; here it's important to bear in mind that this info becomes more and more proprietary - perhaps even between x2 and DO, and certainly within XY: Don never bothered to process the original ADS attributes but used proprietary info instead, from day 1, then promised his customers to replace it with the ADS variety, and then never changed anything here, and indeed, now such a move seems to have become perfectly dispensable indeed.
Perhaps WC is not so much a prog for everyday use, but more an "idea quarry" - but if I take some ideas from there to implement them into something else, I'll certainly say so, and it seems to have a very generous trial scheme, i.e. not the usual "all-functional but for 30 consecutive (!) days only", but "never-expiring, but with quantitative limitations", so that extensive trial is possible.
IF we're speaking of the same detail, i.e. "columns" = "ADS attributes", any such prog today has got a big prob, because Windows simply cut off those attributes, but without replacing them with anything else (= something presumable "better", but anything standardized though (MS' argument was security considerations with ADS: ok, but they should have replaced it with something more "secure", then), so that any prog relying on such info necessarily creates a proprietary system, which is catastrophical for the "industry" and especially for individual users and little workgroups (whilst big corporations often run alternative sw and alternative storage formats at least on their servers (no ntfs there).
Not mentioning TC, which even relies upon that ancient descript.ion system... I did not find any viable solution to this very big problem; no wonder all prof. sw for workgroups (e.g. law office group sw and such) does it with proprietary db solutions now, MS literally killed any development of file-system-based group solutions you could find in earlier stages.
I tried to discuss these questions in the x2 forum - no interest from the part of the developer whatsoever.
Btw, this will marginalize the use of paid file commanders (of which I own 6 or 7, incl. 2 versions of NC, both for Dos and Win), since free ones like FC XE are now even better in most respects, and even the paid ones just integrate some additional functionality third-party (free) solutions, e.g. batch rename, some search, pic display, and more such goodies, and especially DO tries to convince its users that "it has got it all", when in fact, for every such "integrated" additional functionality, there is an available (free) prog that does it better than the respective DO function.
On the other hand, NONE of the paid file commanders today does (without internal scripting that is, so development is delegated onto the individual paying user) proper = really quick "batch" copying/moving (= quick distribution of your inbox files, and such) of individual files:
In every one of them, you will need to write your own macro to copy/move (a) "selected" (= previously copied/cut = ^c, ^x) file(s) to a target:
Either, you must switch target in the second pane, again and again,
or you must open many addititional panes (in several instances or several "windows", etc.), and then move your mouse over long distances,
or you must switch between source and respective target folder within your current pane, again and again:
NONE of them provides a (technically very simple to implement) command for just "copy/move the previously copied/cut file(s) to the currently selected item if that is a folder"
(which means you copy/cut one or several files (selection, in case with control-mouse, then ^c/^x),
then you select some folder (in the current pane or the opposite pane (where you could have listed most of possible target folders, hence the interest of such a "shortcut" to work really speedy),
then you do a "control-F5/control-F6" or something,
and this new command would simply copy/move all these files into that target folder, WITHOUT forcing you to SWITCH to that folder first.
I tried to convince SEVERAL of these developer to implement such a feature, but was treated a fool, an idiot.
Then I wrote an external AHK macro, for doing exactly this, in ANY file commander... but then, I don't need the paid ones, right? If I do it externally, FC XE is perfect for me, and to the loo with all those paid contenders which won't go the extra mile for their customers all the same!
In real life, with the above macro, I process my inbox and other file collections this way:
up or down arrows, then 1-key for "cut";
again up arrows for reaching the target folder
(or in some instances, tab key to reach the opposite pane first, then another tab to go back - and you could even integrate this switch forth and back into your macro, and have the same folder in both panes, in order to minimize arrow key pressings, will do this soon as an alternative for when most of the targets are referenced within the current folder anyway);
1-key for "put it into this folder" (if the current line represents another file instead, I'll get a message box, and simply select an appropriate target after closing that box);
down arrows for processing the next such file (and yes there is room for improvement in order to minimize arrow key pressing).
And of course, such functionality should be natively implemented in ANY such paid file commander, at least AFTER having contacted those lazy developers on this behalf... ;-)
It'not on bits, it's just somebody who mentioned this prog in the Zentimo offering there.
"Xplorer2 provides columns but you can’t add information to them (!). I emailed them about it and support confirmed that. They did not answer my question about why they provide columns that can’t be modified."
I gave up on x2, exactly because of this style of "support" there you describe here, I'm fed up with such stubbornness of a developer who has had good ideas but then does not give them the necessary follow-up (and it seems his (very nice and trying to be helpful all the way they can, btw, but they can neither spice up the prog, nor decide for the developer, unfortunately) "boys" did all the work, for free, in the pdf help - incredible!).
I didn't have time yet to look into WC (oh! nice acronym, all your stuff put into the loo!), but I strongly suppose that by "columns", you mean ntfs attributes, that famous ADS info that Windows has taken away after XP, and which survives in those file managers you mention; here it's important to bear in mind that this info becomes more and more proprietary - perhaps even between x2 and DO, and certainly within XY: Don never bothered to process the original ADS attributes but used proprietary info instead, from day 1, then promised his customers to replace it with the ADS variety, and then never changed anything here, and indeed, now such a move seems to have become perfectly dispensable indeed.
Perhaps WC is not so much a prog for everyday use, but more an "idea quarry" - but if I take some ideas from there to implement them into something else, I'll certainly say so, and it seems to have a very generous trial scheme, i.e. not the usual "all-functional but for 30 consecutive (!) days only", but "never-expiring, but with quantitative limitations", so that extensive trial is possible.
IF we're speaking of the same detail, i.e. "columns" = "ADS attributes", any such prog today has got a big prob, because Windows simply cut off those attributes, but without replacing them with anything else (= something presumable "better", but anything standardized though (MS' argument was security considerations with ADS: ok, but they should have replaced it with something more "secure", then), so that any prog relying on such info necessarily creates a proprietary system, which is catastrophical for the "industry" and especially for individual users and little workgroups (whilst big corporations often run alternative sw and alternative storage formats at least on their servers (no ntfs there).
Not mentioning TC, which even relies upon that ancient descript.ion system... I did not find any viable solution to this very big problem; no wonder all prof. sw for workgroups (e.g. law office group sw and such) does it with proprietary db solutions now, MS literally killed any development of file-system-based group solutions you could find in earlier stages.
I tried to discuss these questions in the x2 forum - no interest from the part of the developer whatsoever.
Btw, this will marginalize the use of paid file commanders (of which I own 6 or 7, incl. 2 versions of NC, both for Dos and Win), since free ones like FC XE are now even better in most respects, and even the paid ones just integrate some additional functionality third-party (free) solutions, e.g. batch rename, some search, pic display, and more such goodies, and especially DO tries to convince its users that "it has got it all", when in fact, for every such "integrated" additional functionality, there is an available (free) prog that does it better than the respective DO function.
On the other hand, NONE of the paid file commanders today does (without internal scripting that is, so development is delegated onto the individual paying user) proper = really quick "batch" copying/moving (= quick distribution of your inbox files, and such) of individual files:
In every one of them, you will need to write your own macro to copy/move (a) "selected" (= previously copied/cut = ^c, ^x) file(s) to a target:
Either, you must switch target in the second pane, again and again,
or you must open many addititional panes (in several instances or several "windows", etc.), and then move your mouse over long distances,
or you must switch between source and respective target folder within your current pane, again and again:
NONE of them provides a (technically very simple to implement) command for just "copy/move the previously copied/cut file(s) to the currently selected item if that is a folder"
(which means you copy/cut one or several files (selection, in case with control-mouse, then ^c/^x),
then you select some folder (in the current pane or the opposite pane (where you could have listed most of possible target folders, hence the interest of such a "shortcut" to work really speedy),
then you do a "control-F5/control-F6" or something,
and this new command would simply copy/move all these files into that target folder, WITHOUT forcing you to SWITCH to that folder first.
I tried to convince SEVERAL of these developer to implement such a feature, but was treated a fool, an idiot.
Then I wrote an external AHK macro, for doing exactly this, in ANY file commander... but then, I don't need the paid ones, right? If I do it externally, FC XE is perfect for me, and to the loo with all those paid contenders which won't go the extra mile for their customers all the same!
In real life, with the above macro, I process my inbox and other file collections this way:
up or down arrows, then 1-key for "cut";
again up arrows for reaching the target folder
(or in some instances, tab key to reach the opposite pane first, then another tab to go back - and you could even integrate this switch forth and back into your macro, and have the same folder in both panes, in order to minimize arrow key pressings, will do this soon as an alternative for when most of the targets are referenced within the current folder anyway);
1-key for "put it into this folder" (if the current line represents another file instead, I'll get a message box, and simply select an appropriate target after closing that box);
down arrows for processing the next such file (and yes there is room for improvement in order to minimize arrow key pressing).
And of course, such functionality should be natively implemented in ANY such paid file commander, at least AFTER having contacted those lazy developers on this behalf... ;-)
Wayne K
1/24/2014 3:48 pm
Yes, I'm referring to attributes displayed as columns that allow you to organize your files. At this point, I don't care if it's proprietary...I'd be thrilled with something that worked. It's really puzzling to me that this isn't a standard feature of file managers.
Last night, I tried: WinCatalog 2014, Where Is It 2013, Disk Explorer 3, Data Crow, Free Commander, Nexus File, Free Commander, and Total Commander. Of these, only Total Commander had customizable columns but I found it awkward to use and you it appears you can't move any column to the left of the name column on the left side.
For me, the best choices so far are Opus Directory and Xyplorer.
Last night, I tried: WinCatalog 2014, Where Is It 2013, Disk Explorer 3, Data Crow, Free Commander, Nexus File, Free Commander, and Total Commander. Of these, only Total Commander had customizable columns but I found it awkward to use and you it appears you can't move any column to the left of the name column on the left side.
For me, the best choices so far are Opus Directory and Xyplorer.
Achim
1/24/2014 4:54 pm
Wayne K wrote:
Yes, I'm referring to attributes displayed as columns that allow you to
organize your files. At this point, I don't care if it's
proprietary...I'd be thrilled with something that worked.
Well, if I had the chance to thrill someone with a catalog software, I would suggest BrokenX Diskmanager.
http://www.brokenx.com/enu/
It offers customizable attributes and fields, catalogs content of archives, mediafile metatags and so on. Maybe it's what you are looking for.
Best regards
Achim
Jon Polish
1/24/2014 8:35 pm
Wayne K wrote:
I thought MyInfo would handle this with ease but that didn't work out
either. If you select a column of pdf's in your file manager and drag
it into MyInfo, it creates a nice list of files. Unfortunately, these
are not links; they're embedded files. There's an 11 MB limit on file
sizes, which alone makes it unusable for me. In addition, if you modify
the original file, you have to remember to embed the new version in
MyInfo. Too much trouble.
Zoot might do the job but I haven't tried it yet.
Wayne
Have you tried Ultra Recall? In addition to custom attributes, notes, etc. there is no limit on file size. Plus with text based pdfs, UR indexes them so the contents can be located using UR's search. I have found this to be very useful.
Jon
Wayne K
1/24/2014 9:13 pm
Achim,
Thanks for the suggestion. I downloaded it and spent an hour going through the help files and trying out trying out various commands. It's probably my own shortcomings but honestly I couldn't make sense of it. Almost all the columns are based on attributes that cannot be changed.
I tried creating custom columns using "User-defined Extra Information" but that didn't work out either. I was unable to click on the column and directly enter information. The only way I could change anything was using a dialogue that took several steps just to enter one word for one file. It was really unintuitive for me and I gave up at that point.
Also, the display was difficult to read because there are no grid lines to guide your eyes across the column entries. This was compounded by the fact that when you select an entry, the selection box only highlights the left-most column -- it does not extend across all the columns.
Wayne
Thanks for the suggestion. I downloaded it and spent an hour going through the help files and trying out trying out various commands. It's probably my own shortcomings but honestly I couldn't make sense of it. Almost all the columns are based on attributes that cannot be changed.
I tried creating custom columns using "User-defined Extra Information" but that didn't work out either. I was unable to click on the column and directly enter information. The only way I could change anything was using a dialogue that took several steps just to enter one word for one file. It was really unintuitive for me and I gave up at that point.
Also, the display was difficult to read because there are no grid lines to guide your eyes across the column entries. This was compounded by the fact that when you select an entry, the selection box only highlights the left-most column -- it does not extend across all the columns.
Wayne
Wayne K
1/24/2014 9:15 pm
Jon,
Ultra Recall was another program I found unintuitive. Again, that may very well be my fault. I'd be willing to take a look at it again. Can you get it to display the files in a spreadsheet-like format, as you see in file managers?
Wayne
Ultra Recall was another program I found unintuitive. Again, that may very well be my fault. I'd be willing to take a look at it again. Can you get it to display the files in a spreadsheet-like format, as you see in file managers?
Wayne
xtabber
1/25/2014 4:15 am
Wayne K wrote:
I went to "Alternative To" website and entered Wincatalog. The top
choice returned was "Where Is it". I just installed it and gave it a
quick try. No customizable columns there, either
Where Is It has a "description" column which can contain any text you want, up to 32K characters long. You can type descriptions directly into it or use a wizard to import descriptions by means of plug-ins, or you can writie your own scripts. It also has "Category" and "Tag" columns which allow for some additional custom information. Categories are basically tags that can be organized in tree structures in the left pane, providing a rudimentary outlining capability. You can reorder and hide columns in the right pane, but you can't create additional columns..
Wincatalog and Where Is It are file catalog programs. not information organizers. They do one thing very well, which is to create catalogs of all the files in a variety of local or offline storage locations, so that you can locate them quickly.
IMHO, the registered version of Where Is It is far more capable, in that it allows for multiple catalogs and can be used as a portable program, among other things..
Wayne K
1/25/2014 5:13 am
You say "Where Is It" can't add columns. That's what I said. You can use the columns provided, but can't create your own columns. Having a description column is hardly a feature since even Windows Explorer allows comments. Tags are fine, but they don't do what I'm looking for. I'm looking for software that allows me to organize files with customizable columns. "Where Is It" doesn't do that. That was my only point. I'm not saying it's a bad program or isn't useful. It just doesn't have customizable columns.
For example, I have a collection of articles in pdf format. I want a column to display the article's author, the website where I found it, the date it was published, and a column to indicate whether I've read the article and taken notes, etc. It doesn't sound like anything too complicated to me, but I'm having trouble finding a program that does it. Nothing you say indicates to me that "Where Is It" can do these things. One description column isn't enough, and tags don't work for what I'm trying to do.
For example, I have a collection of articles in pdf format. I want a column to display the article's author, the website where I found it, the date it was published, and a column to indicate whether I've read the article and taken notes, etc. It doesn't sound like anything too complicated to me, but I'm having trouble finding a program that does it. Nothing you say indicates to me that "Where Is It" can do these things. One description column isn't enough, and tags don't work for what I'm trying to do.
Dr Andus
1/25/2014 10:53 am
Wayne K wrote:
How about Snap DB?
http://skwire.dcmembers.com/fp/?page=snap-db
Never tried it but it looks very simple to use and seems fairly popular:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25028.0
For example, I have a collection of articles in pdf format. I want a
column to display the article's author, the website where I found it,
the date it was published, and a column to indicate whether I've read
the article and taken notes, etc. It doesn't sound like anything too
complicated to me, but I'm having trouble finding a program that does
it.
How about Snap DB?
http://skwire.dcmembers.com/fp/?page=snap-db
Never tried it but it looks very simple to use and seems fairly popular:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25028.0
Achim
1/25/2014 12:05 pm
Hi Wayne,
maybe you gave up too early, and maybe I can convince you, to give it another try - because it's all there:
OPTIONS - SETTINGS - INTERFACE:
Here you can activate gridlines, highlighting of full selected row and also highlighting of sorted column.
The default attributes can't be changed, they belong to the system or certain file types. But you can create your own attributes, and as I understand you, you did that already.
Now if you right click on the grid-header you get an awful long list of available attributes, where you can check or uncheck those which you want to be displayed.
Your self-created attributes will probably show up at the bottom of the list and they will appear in the grid if you check them.
You can easily edit them in-place. If you double-click on a cell, a little editor will open where you can enter up to 32 KB (or so) of text. Works also for the default description-column.
Anything left? I don't think.
Ah, and don't miss the category-feature. Unlike most other similar programs you can have hierarchical categories and you can display multiple categories for each item in the grid (though you can only have one category-column of course).
Best regards
Achim
PS: If you can get along without the file-organizing features, maybe GS-Base will also be an option for you (has configurable columns, edit-fields for long text and fields for attachments)
http://www.citadel5.com/gs-base.htm
maybe you gave up too early, and maybe I can convince you, to give it another try - because it's all there:
OPTIONS - SETTINGS - INTERFACE:
Here you can activate gridlines, highlighting of full selected row and also highlighting of sorted column.
The default attributes can't be changed, they belong to the system or certain file types. But you can create your own attributes, and as I understand you, you did that already.
Now if you right click on the grid-header you get an awful long list of available attributes, where you can check or uncheck those which you want to be displayed.
Your self-created attributes will probably show up at the bottom of the list and they will appear in the grid if you check them.
You can easily edit them in-place. If you double-click on a cell, a little editor will open where you can enter up to 32 KB (or so) of text. Works also for the default description-column.
Anything left? I don't think.
Ah, and don't miss the category-feature. Unlike most other similar programs you can have hierarchical categories and you can display multiple categories for each item in the grid (though you can only have one category-column of course).
Best regards
Achim
PS: If you can get along without the file-organizing features, maybe GS-Base will also be an option for you (has configurable columns, edit-fields for long text and fields for attachments)
http://www.citadel5.com/gs-base.htm
DataMill
1/25/2014 3:02 pm
In UltraRecall go to Tools>Attributes. You can insert a new attribute in this module. This might help you out. I have a file with a lot of pdf's and it keeps them nicely organized.
Mike
Mike
Wayne K
1/25/2014 3:22 pm
Achim,
Thank you for the additional details. You're right about the gridline option; I missed that. Regarding editing the columns in place, I tried it again and it worked at first, but try this: create a new column (eg "Authors"). Now move the column to the left of the "Name" column. Now try to add an entry to the "Authors" column. I'm unable to do it on my machine. If I double-click the "Authors" column, it opens the file. That's what I was running into last night when I concluded you can't edit columns.
I also ran into this problem: after moving another column to the left of the Name column, as described above. When I tried to select a file, it would highlight only the information in the left-most column, and not the Name column. This made it difficult to see what was selected. But this behavior wasn't consistent; sometimes it would behave this way and sometimes it would go back to highlighting the Name column.
Maybe these problems are caused by incompatibility with a Win 7, 64 bit system.
Thank you for the additional details. You're right about the gridline option; I missed that. Regarding editing the columns in place, I tried it again and it worked at first, but try this: create a new column (eg "Authors"). Now move the column to the left of the "Name" column. Now try to add an entry to the "Authors" column. I'm unable to do it on my machine. If I double-click the "Authors" column, it opens the file. That's what I was running into last night when I concluded you can't edit columns.
I also ran into this problem: after moving another column to the left of the Name column, as described above. When I tried to select a file, it would highlight only the information in the left-most column, and not the Name column. This made it difficult to see what was selected. But this behavior wasn't consistent; sometimes it would behave this way and sometimes it would go back to highlighting the Name column.
Maybe these problems are caused by incompatibility with a Win 7, 64 bit system.
Wayne K
1/25/2014 3:25 pm
Dr Andus wrote:
How about Snap DB?
http://skwire.dcmembers.com/fp/?page=snap-db
Never tried it but it looks very simple to use and seems fairly popular:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25028.0
Thanks for the reminder, Dr Andus. I already it on my "Try Someday" list so this might be a good time to look at it.
Wayne K
1/25/2014 4:37 pm
Dr Andus wrote:
How about Snap DB?
http://skwire.dcmembers.com/fp/?page=snap-db
Never tried it but it looks very simple to use and seems fairly popular:
http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=25028.0
I gave it a try. There's no way to import file links that I could see. I'd have to manually enter the information for each file. That's not practical. It's a nice little program though on first glance I'm not sure what it does that you couldn't do in an Excel spreadsheet where you'd have many more options for formatting etc. Maybe the filtering is easier and it's better at handling large databases.
22111
1/27/2014 5:01 pm
Wayne said,
"Ultra Recall was another program I found unintuitive. Again, that may very well be my fault."
No, it's not, it's almost all there, but as for "availability", that's another question; it's a classic example of a "coder's" program, not an application designed by a "sw designer"... but it has been mentioned very often in this thread, and rightly so: It offers much more re file M (and re external file formats) than most outliners do today.
There's also the opinion of "be it proprietary or not, I'm happy as long as it works" - I've got some prob with that, since any possible "exporting your stuff", whenever you might deem that sensible, might become more or less impossible, because the heavier you rely on such functionality, the more "manual" (i.e. perhaps scriptable) work will have to be done then, on "switching systems" (that has always been my argument against cloning, too).
Windows Explorer has been mentioned, too - I should have another look into it since for the time being, there's a paradox: MS did away with ADS, and then, Explorer, even in 7/8, relies on "columns"? Realized how, technically, then? Proprietary, again? That'd be the limit, as they say!
Wayne, since you mention DO and XY in a row, don't leave out X2 there - I'm not fond of either of them (and I put in my arguments for that), but if you accept such a solution, I don't see why X2 was in any way not as good as DO or XY here... and even, if you delve into it, X2 even does it BETTER than DO (both with ancient ADS), whilst XY's system doesn't seem to be compatible with anything. Btw., it would be interesting to know if DO and X2's solutions are perfectly interchangeable in any system from XP to 8. (I once used X2 on a daily basis for this, and I just needed a VERY light macro to do it all very well, since (as you mentioned, too), DO's respective functionality is much more cumbersome.)
Many tools I never heard of are mentioned here - thank you very much!
I just wanted to mention DiviFile here again. In fact, I didn't trial it because from its description, I didn't think it worthwile, but I was mistaken, since:
http://listserv.vt.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ASKSAM-L;4e19bdd3.1401
"There are two nice programs for creating and managing virtual folders: DiviFile (free, GNU) and Tabbles (free for personal use).
The DiviFile keeps tracks of the files even if those files are moved to different locations."
This last feature, i.e. monitoring file moves, stands out from the crowd of similar tools (and is absolutely mandatory as I'm concerned) - so this little tool is certainly worth another, more thorough look, too.
"Ultra Recall was another program I found unintuitive. Again, that may very well be my fault."
No, it's not, it's almost all there, but as for "availability", that's another question; it's a classic example of a "coder's" program, not an application designed by a "sw designer"... but it has been mentioned very often in this thread, and rightly so: It offers much more re file M (and re external file formats) than most outliners do today.
There's also the opinion of "be it proprietary or not, I'm happy as long as it works" - I've got some prob with that, since any possible "exporting your stuff", whenever you might deem that sensible, might become more or less impossible, because the heavier you rely on such functionality, the more "manual" (i.e. perhaps scriptable) work will have to be done then, on "switching systems" (that has always been my argument against cloning, too).
Windows Explorer has been mentioned, too - I should have another look into it since for the time being, there's a paradox: MS did away with ADS, and then, Explorer, even in 7/8, relies on "columns"? Realized how, technically, then? Proprietary, again? That'd be the limit, as they say!
Wayne, since you mention DO and XY in a row, don't leave out X2 there - I'm not fond of either of them (and I put in my arguments for that), but if you accept such a solution, I don't see why X2 was in any way not as good as DO or XY here... and even, if you delve into it, X2 even does it BETTER than DO (both with ancient ADS), whilst XY's system doesn't seem to be compatible with anything. Btw., it would be interesting to know if DO and X2's solutions are perfectly interchangeable in any system from XP to 8. (I once used X2 on a daily basis for this, and I just needed a VERY light macro to do it all very well, since (as you mentioned, too), DO's respective functionality is much more cumbersome.)
Many tools I never heard of are mentioned here - thank you very much!
I just wanted to mention DiviFile here again. In fact, I didn't trial it because from its description, I didn't think it worthwile, but I was mistaken, since:
http://listserv.vt.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ASKSAM-L;4e19bdd3.1401
"There are two nice programs for creating and managing virtual folders: DiviFile (free, GNU) and Tabbles (free for personal use).
The DiviFile keeps tracks of the files even if those files are moved to different locations."
This last feature, i.e. monitoring file moves, stands out from the crowd of similar tools (and is absolutely mandatory as I'm concerned) - so this little tool is certainly worth another, more thorough look, too.
jimspoon
1/27/2014 7:13 pm
22111 - are you referring to Alternate Data Streams? It seems they have not been discontinued but are still in wide usage. Please see my "file metadata" thread which I just updated. (don't want to hijack Wayne's thread about Wincatalog and other programs that do what he's looking for)
Wayne K
1/27/2014 8:11 pm
22111,
When I said I wasn't too worried about proprietary I was referring specifically to file managers, not PIM's. I see it as less risk because we're talking about the possible loss of attributes attached to files, not original notes that you've created.
Regarding Xplorer2, I have the pro version and did mention it at the beginning. You can't modify columns.
All this is related to the previous thread about being able to change file attributes so they file information is portable and available no matter what file manager you're using. That would be nice. I tried creating a poor man's version of this be incorporating key info in the name. For example, I would include the author, source, and date in the file name for an article. It's an awkward system because the file names get so long. You also can't sort files by attributes but you can kind of work around this by doing key word searches instead.
Donald has confirmed to me that he plans to add more customizable columns to XYplorer. I'll report back when that happens.
Thanks for the other software suggestions.
Wayne
When I said I wasn't too worried about proprietary I was referring specifically to file managers, not PIM's. I see it as less risk because we're talking about the possible loss of attributes attached to files, not original notes that you've created.
Regarding Xplorer2, I have the pro version and did mention it at the beginning. You can't modify columns.
All this is related to the previous thread about being able to change file attributes so they file information is portable and available no matter what file manager you're using. That would be nice. I tried creating a poor man's version of this be incorporating key info in the name. For example, I would include the author, source, and date in the file name for an article. It's an awkward system because the file names get so long. You also can't sort files by attributes but you can kind of work around this by doing key word searches instead.
Donald has confirmed to me that he plans to add more customizable columns to XYplorer. I'll report back when that happens.
Thanks for the other software suggestions.
Wayne
Wayne K
1/27/2014 8:21 pm
Based on what I've seen so far, I've concluded that its better to stick with mainstream file managers based on the following.
1) Even if you find software that offers better handling of attributes/columns, if you try to use it to manage your files you'll immediately start missing all the other features that the top-line file managers offer (powerful formatting, filtering, etc).
2) To be workable, the other software has to take over all file management. It's too much trouble to be constantly transferring files from the primary file manager to the alternate program, and keep it all up to date and synchronized.
Wayne
1) Even if you find software that offers better handling of attributes/columns, if you try to use it to manage your files you'll immediately start missing all the other features that the top-line file managers offer (powerful formatting, filtering, etc).
2) To be workable, the other software has to take over all file management. It's too much trouble to be constantly transferring files from the primary file manager to the alternate program, and keep it all up to date and synchronized.
Wayne
22111
1/27/2014 10:21 pm
I
Jim and Wayne,
it occurs to me that since we're speaking defunct functionality, even though you say it works (I have XP only and so cannot check), you rely upon that functionality that is inherent to the file manager in question - please try to read that same data, from X2 to Explorer, to DO... this will be rather instructive.
Jim,
Yes, I'm speaking of those Alternative Data Streams, some months ago I spent 2 days with the problem, and indeed, they have officially been shelved by MS - it's all the more of interest how MS does it now with Explorer, and as Wayne says, we need some system where the same file info is available whatever file manager we use - hence the interest of ADS (on ntfs at least), but which has been dumped, without having being replaced.
Wayne,
Your last post says it all, the functionality would have had to be within a (good, paid, ok if it's expensive) file manager, but it is not (anymore) - did I say it would be interesting to show if at least the X2 colums are 100 p.c. compatible with the DO ones, and vice versa? (Since both have become sort of "proprietary" now, in 7/8 (and beginning with Vista if I remember well).) - All those additional programs add too much fuss, especially if they do not synch themselves.
Of course we are mixing up two paradigms here: Virtual folders (= distribution into groups from start on), and "column" data (which is for filtering on that afterwards), but as long as we're aware of our discussing two concepts at the same time (since they fulfill the same task)...
Let's speak again of the "individual" columns you think you need. As I had understood it, most of them are standard attributes, not of the file manager in question, but of the ADS / ntfs system, i.e. "author", "last changed", etc., etc. - these were perfectly "exportable" between any file manager, in ADS days (up to XP).
On top of these, your local Win version seems to add the whole bunch anew, i.e. you have got all these in English, and then even perhaps in German, French, Spanish... So there must indeed be a way to add "individual" columns to ADS, since the local Win version does exactly that. (But then, there would be "exportability" issues, not from one file manager to another, but from one Win installation to another in another language, and both should be XP.)
I would have tried to find more precise info on these matters, had it not been the fact that anyway, that system is doomed. I think I remember that a third-party add-on does that in Explorer, even in 7/8, you always can read (but not write?!) ADS data, but you'd need X2 or DO to write it into those ADS of these files.
Again, I tried to discuss these matters with X2 developer, but he fervently holds to any know-how advantage he might hold.
Also, at present, this ADS is always there, but not "acknowledged" by MS anymore; in "tomorrow" 's file system, it might not even be available anymore, even for such proprietary solutions offered now by X2 and DO - which arises the question where XY does store its metadata, and why it has been called "proprietary" to begin with? I think I remember it's stored in a db over there?
III
Wayne, with all reservations re ADS today, why do you need MORE "columns" (ok, X2 calls them that, but they are ADS attributes) than are available in X2? I have these attributes in 2 languages, but I counted them, they are 67! Let's say in your English-ownly system, these are about 35 only, and you cannot enter text data in a "last accessed" attribute, that's accepted, but there are numerous such attributes, and in the "Comments" attribute at least, you can put multiple codes, keywords, whatever! Would'nt that be enough, with carefull planning? (Which is necessary because it's very cumbersome to batch-change all this, afterwards.)
II
Wayne, trying to get too much info into file names is pure horror, as you have seen for yourself. That's why invented my multiple folders system where the respective folder is displayed for every outline item, and this means, instead of doing metadata by ADS anymore (or within file names), I try to put every external file into the proper sub-folder.
Then (since this makes only for "sorting by ONE criterion), for author names and such, I use "Search Everything" (SE), which only searches within the global "container" folder that "holds" these detailed folders, i.e. I try to not code info that is readily available by SE anyway (but I very often add additional, explicative info to the original file name, in the form "original file name (my additional info).suffix" (in order to not have to open pdf's too often such for a "what was it again upon?!" afterwards).
Then, there is file linking; in a system like mine, with hundreds of folders, file linking is very efficient. Here, I have to acknowledge that my advise isn't as good as my reality: My folders are named in the form "cio - IM - Outliners" = I do NOT describe the first code, C = Computer; I've got just 30 such codes, and I memorize them. Then, for the second code (= often many, for each first code, = may be over hundred of them, no need to memorize them), I do a SHORT explanation, here "IM" for "i". Then, the third code, as mnemonic as possible (so some details have weird names), "o" for "Outliners", this I write in "full description".
Now the trick in my system is that for any file operation, it's just the code part that I need, and the same goes for folders. I not only have a folder "cio - IM - Outliners", but whenever I want to switch to that folder, I just do an "F7 cio", and AHK does not just enter the "enter" (I've got 1 sec and a half to enter the 3 characters, so I better decide upon them before pressing F7), but also replaces, internally, the "cio" by the full folder name.
This means, whenever I have got some OTHER file, anywhere, which I also would like to be able to access from within the cio folder, I simply select that file in ANY file manager, then press "control-F7 cio", and I don't even have to check there: In any case, that file, with its full file name, will have got a link file within the "cio - ..." folder (and if really there is a technical problem, I'd get a message).
Now, if I say, do similar, I know that in a regular file system, this is not "work" for (literally) 2 seconds, but a lot of fuss, and this prevents pc users from using such a system, hence the interest of extensive tagging instead, but this tagging, too, should be done with codes; then, either anything in just one big folder, and filtering, or in different folders, and SE (or in X2 and some other file managers, even filtering "over" many subfolders at the same time).
What about a non-intrusive "code" symbol like the degree symbol, which probably you'll never use in any file name (internal or external)? Then, "°cio - original filename", "°cio - another original filename (and some short comment of yours)", "°cek - original filename.pdf" for e.g. some intro into "Computer - Editors - KEdit", etc., etc.
Why the degree sign? Because most "searchers", like SE, would produce many false "hits" when you'd search for such codes, most of which are ubiquitous as parts of words, since it's not so simple (or even impossible) to search with these special tools just for characters at the beginning of a filename.
Then, the same principle applies to other codes, ToDo/Delegation/Belongs-to-project-xyz codes and such: Here again, you need some code symbol you otherwise will never use (but there are plenty of them available, for standard fonts like Arial, Tahoma and such, between abc and the accented chars, or then, the ° again, and next char being a char you will not use as FIRST char of any naming code), and then hold it as simple and short as possible, at the BEGINNING of file names.
Example for an external file: "°cek - Some Intro into KEdit", which is within your general folder (or within your folder "sw" when you prefer trans-folder filtering). You need this within a certain project, let's say you have some qualitative analysis work to do, let's say a project called "slf - Sociology - Film Buffs in London (from Art House to illegal file exchange (whatever)", and for which you need KEdit, and you want to have this intro handy there. Now I would simply make a link from the original file in cek that appeared in slf, but you will have just a slf folder, too, or in the folder "university", "writings" or such, or then, your "all in" folder.
Anyway, you need cek... within your slf project. So you would RENAME your original file, from "°cek - blahblah" to "°cek - (°slf) blahblah" - or to "°cek - (°slf) (°pks) blahblah" if you need it in another project, too. Now you want your kid to have a look into it, for its homework, and you rename it "°cek - °zt (°slf) (°pks) blahblah", or, instead of °zt, #t; both are for "Tom should have a look into it" (let's say you have 2 children, Tom and Jerry, that leaves you anything else but zt and zj available for other coding (whilst the # variant would be perfect if you had two dozen collaborators, leaving the z for other, various codings).
Now in your project slf, you have SE search for °slf (the ° being placed there by macro), or you simply FILTER FOR °slf, and your file manager shows you any file that you need for your London ex-cinema-goers project.
Here, one very important detail: Don't despice free file managers: I own 6 or 7 paid ones, but FreeCommander XE is a wonderful piece of free sw which does better filtering than most highly-paid ones.
I know all this is not beautiful, because of the multiple add-ons to file names, but ADS isn't available anymore, or just within one single file commander. My system (references to files in multiple contexts/folders) seems to be best... when I'll have overcome the prob that all those fine quick links are broken whenever I rename the original file name... It seems that beyond XP, and with other formats than just .lnk files, there are possibilities. Remember I do NOT have multiple context coding in my system, just ToDo coding (and even that could be replaced by "virtual" folders, i.e. real folders, named "Today", "This Week", etc., just containing .lnk files pointing to the original files - remember, one such link / "tag", in my system, takes 2 seconds, incl. the entry of the target name('s 2 or 3 character code).
I'm more than willing to discuss other file naming conventions, but for a start, the above details might justify some batch renaming, then seeing how you can do it best: Select the files that "go" into one project / context / subject / whatever, add the common code, do it again for other subgroups... do not try to do it all manually. And for that batch renaming. Above, I said I often add (comments).suffix after the original filename; here for multiple context, etc. coding, when you do batch rename, you will always replace the ") " by ") SomeAddition", so try to rename/code the most important file groups first, then add secondary group assignments... and depending on your batch renamer (lots of them are free, and some of the best ones are in paid file commanders), you might even avoid separating different codings by spaces, since this would bring the possibility to not only add at the end of the coding section of the file names, but also at the beginning - of course, you can use brackets and braces, but they are even uglier. Or then, separate them with semicoli, and leave out the parentheses altogether - that's probably best. (But don't leave out the °°° - you'll also need them for any renaming, afterwards.) (Well, thinking about it... why any (); or whatever, anyway?
Have it this way, imo:
°xpc °ats °flz °za °zt - Original Filename (Author or such).suffix
And you'll always be able to replace the " - " by another " °plt - " then. But code your contexts, or else you'll get file names 30 cm long and will lose all faith in pckind. (And yes, I would have preferred the preservation of ADS comments; btw, X2 even lets you filter by them, as long as it goes.)
Jim and Wayne,
it occurs to me that since we're speaking defunct functionality, even though you say it works (I have XP only and so cannot check), you rely upon that functionality that is inherent to the file manager in question - please try to read that same data, from X2 to Explorer, to DO... this will be rather instructive.
Jim,
Yes, I'm speaking of those Alternative Data Streams, some months ago I spent 2 days with the problem, and indeed, they have officially been shelved by MS - it's all the more of interest how MS does it now with Explorer, and as Wayne says, we need some system where the same file info is available whatever file manager we use - hence the interest of ADS (on ntfs at least), but which has been dumped, without having being replaced.
Wayne,
Your last post says it all, the functionality would have had to be within a (good, paid, ok if it's expensive) file manager, but it is not (anymore) - did I say it would be interesting to show if at least the X2 colums are 100 p.c. compatible with the DO ones, and vice versa? (Since both have become sort of "proprietary" now, in 7/8 (and beginning with Vista if I remember well).) - All those additional programs add too much fuss, especially if they do not synch themselves.
Of course we are mixing up two paradigms here: Virtual folders (= distribution into groups from start on), and "column" data (which is for filtering on that afterwards), but as long as we're aware of our discussing two concepts at the same time (since they fulfill the same task)...
Let's speak again of the "individual" columns you think you need. As I had understood it, most of them are standard attributes, not of the file manager in question, but of the ADS / ntfs system, i.e. "author", "last changed", etc., etc. - these were perfectly "exportable" between any file manager, in ADS days (up to XP).
On top of these, your local Win version seems to add the whole bunch anew, i.e. you have got all these in English, and then even perhaps in German, French, Spanish... So there must indeed be a way to add "individual" columns to ADS, since the local Win version does exactly that. (But then, there would be "exportability" issues, not from one file manager to another, but from one Win installation to another in another language, and both should be XP.)
I would have tried to find more precise info on these matters, had it not been the fact that anyway, that system is doomed. I think I remember that a third-party add-on does that in Explorer, even in 7/8, you always can read (but not write?!) ADS data, but you'd need X2 or DO to write it into those ADS of these files.
Again, I tried to discuss these matters with X2 developer, but he fervently holds to any know-how advantage he might hold.
Also, at present, this ADS is always there, but not "acknowledged" by MS anymore; in "tomorrow" 's file system, it might not even be available anymore, even for such proprietary solutions offered now by X2 and DO - which arises the question where XY does store its metadata, and why it has been called "proprietary" to begin with? I think I remember it's stored in a db over there?
III
Wayne, with all reservations re ADS today, why do you need MORE "columns" (ok, X2 calls them that, but they are ADS attributes) than are available in X2? I have these attributes in 2 languages, but I counted them, they are 67! Let's say in your English-ownly system, these are about 35 only, and you cannot enter text data in a "last accessed" attribute, that's accepted, but there are numerous such attributes, and in the "Comments" attribute at least, you can put multiple codes, keywords, whatever! Would'nt that be enough, with carefull planning? (Which is necessary because it's very cumbersome to batch-change all this, afterwards.)
II
Wayne, trying to get too much info into file names is pure horror, as you have seen for yourself. That's why invented my multiple folders system where the respective folder is displayed for every outline item, and this means, instead of doing metadata by ADS anymore (or within file names), I try to put every external file into the proper sub-folder.
Then (since this makes only for "sorting by ONE criterion), for author names and such, I use "Search Everything" (SE), which only searches within the global "container" folder that "holds" these detailed folders, i.e. I try to not code info that is readily available by SE anyway (but I very often add additional, explicative info to the original file name, in the form "original file name (my additional info).suffix" (in order to not have to open pdf's too often such for a "what was it again upon?!" afterwards).
Then, there is file linking; in a system like mine, with hundreds of folders, file linking is very efficient. Here, I have to acknowledge that my advise isn't as good as my reality: My folders are named in the form "cio - IM - Outliners" = I do NOT describe the first code, C = Computer; I've got just 30 such codes, and I memorize them. Then, for the second code (= often many, for each first code, = may be over hundred of them, no need to memorize them), I do a SHORT explanation, here "IM" for "i". Then, the third code, as mnemonic as possible (so some details have weird names), "o" for "Outliners", this I write in "full description".
Now the trick in my system is that for any file operation, it's just the code part that I need, and the same goes for folders. I not only have a folder "cio - IM - Outliners", but whenever I want to switch to that folder, I just do an "F7 cio", and AHK does not just enter the "enter" (I've got 1 sec and a half to enter the 3 characters, so I better decide upon them before pressing F7), but also replaces, internally, the "cio" by the full folder name.
This means, whenever I have got some OTHER file, anywhere, which I also would like to be able to access from within the cio folder, I simply select that file in ANY file manager, then press "control-F7 cio", and I don't even have to check there: In any case, that file, with its full file name, will have got a link file within the "cio - ..." folder (and if really there is a technical problem, I'd get a message).
Now, if I say, do similar, I know that in a regular file system, this is not "work" for (literally) 2 seconds, but a lot of fuss, and this prevents pc users from using such a system, hence the interest of extensive tagging instead, but this tagging, too, should be done with codes; then, either anything in just one big folder, and filtering, or in different folders, and SE (or in X2 and some other file managers, even filtering "over" many subfolders at the same time).
What about a non-intrusive "code" symbol like the degree symbol, which probably you'll never use in any file name (internal or external)? Then, "°cio - original filename", "°cio - another original filename (and some short comment of yours)", "°cek - original filename.pdf" for e.g. some intro into "Computer - Editors - KEdit", etc., etc.
Why the degree sign? Because most "searchers", like SE, would produce many false "hits" when you'd search for such codes, most of which are ubiquitous as parts of words, since it's not so simple (or even impossible) to search with these special tools just for characters at the beginning of a filename.
Then, the same principle applies to other codes, ToDo/Delegation/Belongs-to-project-xyz codes and such: Here again, you need some code symbol you otherwise will never use (but there are plenty of them available, for standard fonts like Arial, Tahoma and such, between abc and the accented chars, or then, the ° again, and next char being a char you will not use as FIRST char of any naming code), and then hold it as simple and short as possible, at the BEGINNING of file names.
Example for an external file: "°cek - Some Intro into KEdit", which is within your general folder (or within your folder "sw" when you prefer trans-folder filtering). You need this within a certain project, let's say you have some qualitative analysis work to do, let's say a project called "slf - Sociology - Film Buffs in London (from Art House to illegal file exchange (whatever)", and for which you need KEdit, and you want to have this intro handy there. Now I would simply make a link from the original file in cek that appeared in slf, but you will have just a slf folder, too, or in the folder "university", "writings" or such, or then, your "all in" folder.
Anyway, you need cek... within your slf project. So you would RENAME your original file, from "°cek - blahblah" to "°cek - (°slf) blahblah" - or to "°cek - (°slf) (°pks) blahblah" if you need it in another project, too. Now you want your kid to have a look into it, for its homework, and you rename it "°cek - °zt (°slf) (°pks) blahblah", or, instead of °zt, #t; both are for "Tom should have a look into it" (let's say you have 2 children, Tom and Jerry, that leaves you anything else but zt and zj available for other coding (whilst the # variant would be perfect if you had two dozen collaborators, leaving the z for other, various codings).
Now in your project slf, you have SE search for °slf (the ° being placed there by macro), or you simply FILTER FOR °slf, and your file manager shows you any file that you need for your London ex-cinema-goers project.
Here, one very important detail: Don't despice free file managers: I own 6 or 7 paid ones, but FreeCommander XE is a wonderful piece of free sw which does better filtering than most highly-paid ones.
I know all this is not beautiful, because of the multiple add-ons to file names, but ADS isn't available anymore, or just within one single file commander. My system (references to files in multiple contexts/folders) seems to be best... when I'll have overcome the prob that all those fine quick links are broken whenever I rename the original file name... It seems that beyond XP, and with other formats than just .lnk files, there are possibilities. Remember I do NOT have multiple context coding in my system, just ToDo coding (and even that could be replaced by "virtual" folders, i.e. real folders, named "Today", "This Week", etc., just containing .lnk files pointing to the original files - remember, one such link / "tag", in my system, takes 2 seconds, incl. the entry of the target name('s 2 or 3 character code).
I'm more than willing to discuss other file naming conventions, but for a start, the above details might justify some batch renaming, then seeing how you can do it best: Select the files that "go" into one project / context / subject / whatever, add the common code, do it again for other subgroups... do not try to do it all manually. And for that batch renaming. Above, I said I often add (comments).suffix after the original filename; here for multiple context, etc. coding, when you do batch rename, you will always replace the ") " by ") SomeAddition", so try to rename/code the most important file groups first, then add secondary group assignments... and depending on your batch renamer (lots of them are free, and some of the best ones are in paid file commanders), you might even avoid separating different codings by spaces, since this would bring the possibility to not only add at the end of the coding section of the file names, but also at the beginning - of course, you can use brackets and braces, but they are even uglier. Or then, separate them with semicoli, and leave out the parentheses altogether - that's probably best. (But don't leave out the °°° - you'll also need them for any renaming, afterwards.) (Well, thinking about it... why any (); or whatever, anyway?
Have it this way, imo:
°xpc °ats °flz °za °zt - Original Filename (Author or such).suffix
And you'll always be able to replace the " - " by another " °plt - " then. But code your contexts, or else you'll get file names 30 cm long and will lose all faith in pckind. (And yes, I would have preferred the preservation of ADS comments; btw, X2 even lets you filter by them, as long as it goes.)
Wayne K
1/28/2014 12:19 am
22111,
I was excited when I saw the many columns available in Xplorer2 but you can't modify any of them except the comments attribute, so they're worthless. At least I don't think you can. I didn't systematically try every one of them but I tried a at least 6 or 7 and could see I was getting nowhere. I then contacted Tech Support. They didn't dispute my observation that you couldn't enter information into their columns. They also didn't seem to think that was a shortcoming in their program or something that should be addressed in any way other than to say "you can't do that".
As I said above, the big take-away I've gotten out of this exercise is the conclusion that any two-step solution that involves exporting files from the primary file manager to some other program is not a good solution. The solution has to be within your primary file manager. That alone simplifies the issue enormously.
I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish what I'm trying to do, and you've suggested some for me to think about.
I'll reply to some of your other points when I have more time.
Wayne
I was excited when I saw the many columns available in Xplorer2 but you can't modify any of them except the comments attribute, so they're worthless. At least I don't think you can. I didn't systematically try every one of them but I tried a at least 6 or 7 and could see I was getting nowhere. I then contacted Tech Support. They didn't dispute my observation that you couldn't enter information into their columns. They also didn't seem to think that was a shortcoming in their program or something that should be addressed in any way other than to say "you can't do that".
As I said above, the big take-away I've gotten out of this exercise is the conclusion that any two-step solution that involves exporting files from the primary file manager to some other program is not a good solution. The solution has to be within your primary file manager. That alone simplifies the issue enormously.
I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish what I'm trying to do, and you've suggested some for me to think about.
I'll reply to some of your other points when I have more time.
Wayne
22111
1/28/2014 3:33 pm
Wayne,
"As I said above, the big take-away I’ve gotten out of this exercise is the conclusion that any two-step solution that involves exporting files from the primary file manager to some other program is not a good solution. The solution has to be within your primary file manager. That alone simplifies the issue enormously."
As said, we convene here by 100 p.c.
I
As for ADS attributes in X2, here again, I never said your info is wrong, and I fully acknowledge all that "other" ADS attributes there cannot be "changed", i.e. neither renamed nor changed in their respective information "format". So, from your insistance on this point, I take that I should have been more clearly in what my suggestions meant: In fact (but without ever wording this), I constantly spoke of "abusing" some of those not-needed attributes, wherever their data format permitted this, and from what I saw (several months ago), some of them lend themselves perfectly to such "abuse".
This being said, the respective attributes/columns cannot be renamed, and it's quite awful to have relevant info in attributes with misleading names - it's all about ugly, provisional solutions, and with both X2 and DO developers NOT responsive on this matter (which could indicate that they consider this subject, too, but don't want competitors to get any info on the possible solutions they might have in mind, for future Win versions - it also seems there is a lot of technical know-how here about HOW to address/process ADS data... let's remember XY never used this format, in spite of constant user demand for it).
And again, MS has dumped ADS, dumped in the sense that just in current Win versions, it seems to be there yet (since X2, DO, etc. can address/process it), but they can take it away anytime (well, it does not seem to be a feature of Win, but of ntfs, which is certainly the only reason it's always there: MS WANT to dump it, but they cannot, without dumping ntfs at the same time, and they don't dare to do so yet ;-) ).
II
That's (and the absence of real info about possible alternatives after searching for days in the web) why I think a "file cloning system" is best (= a more elegant "virtual folders system" since it only relies on folders being really there (whilst you can NOT "see" those "file collections" / "virtual folders" created by X2, DO, SC, etc. within the regular folder trees, even from within the same file commander you will have created those, let alone looking into your file system with any "competitor"), coupled with some additional info within the file names (= additional "tagging"); the multiple "contexts" here being shown just from any file manager (since you've got any file (= reference) in any such context (= real file folder) where it might belong (, too), and any "additional" info then is available by filtering for codes or text (authors and such info) within the file names.
I'm aware that these "text tags within the file names" cannot be combined, for such filtering, in current file managers (or did I overlook such functionality anywhere)? This means, you can filter for term1, for term2, and even for term1 OR term2 in many of them (you must just check by which syntax, e.g. "term1;term2", or just by a space between them, BUT this will only add anything containing term 2 to anything containing term1, NOT just show files containing both terms, and which would be needed very often.
Hence the need for additional search tools, for such tasks, and here again, we've left our "do it all in just one single file manager" objective. That's why I would like to have a combination of file manager AND outliner (as described in other threads), and which would have more or less "full file M" functionality (which is not the case for UR, e.g., and which does "more" than most of its competitors do, for the moment).
This being said, many "additional" functionality seemingly "within" current file managers simply run additional tools in a window on top of the file manager's window, then that additional window is automatically closed again by the file manager, and both the trigger and the close/hide again function could be realized by a macro, for another (but fully-functional) provisional solution.
And to say a last word on "tags-in-the-filenames": I'm aware that my "virtual folders" system above is just as worthwile as is cloning in outliners, and that the same limits apply: It's just the "primal tag", different (= "I need it here, too") context - it would be aberrant to create folders (or, in an outliner, additional headings) for "combinations" (e.g. "I need it for project abc, AND the author is xyz"; but there are SOME cases where this CAN be done BUT as a subfolder: folder "project abc", and then, if you've got 20 papers from just one author you need there, why not have a subfolder "author xyz" within your folder "project abc"?)
In general, though, some combination of "primal tag" (whether you realize that as a "virtual folder" or by a tag yet), and then, secondary tags (mostly by real tagging, be them in the file name, in an ADS or within the file format itself (pics, MS Office...)) is the way of doing things, hence the interest, if you do it by info in the file name,
of coding (for briefness, not only in display, but also for then filtering/searching for these tags!),
and of standardization (as such info is standardized e.g. for pics, and in ADS attributes, again both for visual reasons, if in the file names, and for easy and safe/complete access to the relevant files afterwards (i.e. you introduce variants, you'll inadvertantly leave some of the possible "hits" out, or the other way round, you just want xyz as an author's name, but you'll also get files where the same term is part of the original file title (e.g. "Answer on abc's Paper "def" in the "ghi Journal" in October 2013" - this will leave you not just one, but FOUR chances for getting false "hits"))).
"As I said above, the big take-away I’ve gotten out of this exercise is the conclusion that any two-step solution that involves exporting files from the primary file manager to some other program is not a good solution. The solution has to be within your primary file manager. That alone simplifies the issue enormously."
As said, we convene here by 100 p.c.
I
As for ADS attributes in X2, here again, I never said your info is wrong, and I fully acknowledge all that "other" ADS attributes there cannot be "changed", i.e. neither renamed nor changed in their respective information "format". So, from your insistance on this point, I take that I should have been more clearly in what my suggestions meant: In fact (but without ever wording this), I constantly spoke of "abusing" some of those not-needed attributes, wherever their data format permitted this, and from what I saw (several months ago), some of them lend themselves perfectly to such "abuse".
This being said, the respective attributes/columns cannot be renamed, and it's quite awful to have relevant info in attributes with misleading names - it's all about ugly, provisional solutions, and with both X2 and DO developers NOT responsive on this matter (which could indicate that they consider this subject, too, but don't want competitors to get any info on the possible solutions they might have in mind, for future Win versions - it also seems there is a lot of technical know-how here about HOW to address/process ADS data... let's remember XY never used this format, in spite of constant user demand for it).
And again, MS has dumped ADS, dumped in the sense that just in current Win versions, it seems to be there yet (since X2, DO, etc. can address/process it), but they can take it away anytime (well, it does not seem to be a feature of Win, but of ntfs, which is certainly the only reason it's always there: MS WANT to dump it, but they cannot, without dumping ntfs at the same time, and they don't dare to do so yet ;-) ).
II
That's (and the absence of real info about possible alternatives after searching for days in the web) why I think a "file cloning system" is best (= a more elegant "virtual folders system" since it only relies on folders being really there (whilst you can NOT "see" those "file collections" / "virtual folders" created by X2, DO, SC, etc. within the regular folder trees, even from within the same file commander you will have created those, let alone looking into your file system with any "competitor"), coupled with some additional info within the file names (= additional "tagging"); the multiple "contexts" here being shown just from any file manager (since you've got any file (= reference) in any such context (= real file folder) where it might belong (, too), and any "additional" info then is available by filtering for codes or text (authors and such info) within the file names.
I'm aware that these "text tags within the file names" cannot be combined, for such filtering, in current file managers (or did I overlook such functionality anywhere)? This means, you can filter for term1, for term2, and even for term1 OR term2 in many of them (you must just check by which syntax, e.g. "term1;term2", or just by a space between them, BUT this will only add anything containing term 2 to anything containing term1, NOT just show files containing both terms, and which would be needed very often.
Hence the need for additional search tools, for such tasks, and here again, we've left our "do it all in just one single file manager" objective. That's why I would like to have a combination of file manager AND outliner (as described in other threads), and which would have more or less "full file M" functionality (which is not the case for UR, e.g., and which does "more" than most of its competitors do, for the moment).
This being said, many "additional" functionality seemingly "within" current file managers simply run additional tools in a window on top of the file manager's window, then that additional window is automatically closed again by the file manager, and both the trigger and the close/hide again function could be realized by a macro, for another (but fully-functional) provisional solution.
And to say a last word on "tags-in-the-filenames": I'm aware that my "virtual folders" system above is just as worthwile as is cloning in outliners, and that the same limits apply: It's just the "primal tag", different (= "I need it here, too") context - it would be aberrant to create folders (or, in an outliner, additional headings) for "combinations" (e.g. "I need it for project abc, AND the author is xyz"; but there are SOME cases where this CAN be done BUT as a subfolder: folder "project abc", and then, if you've got 20 papers from just one author you need there, why not have a subfolder "author xyz" within your folder "project abc"?)
In general, though, some combination of "primal tag" (whether you realize that as a "virtual folder" or by a tag yet), and then, secondary tags (mostly by real tagging, be them in the file name, in an ADS or within the file format itself (pics, MS Office...)) is the way of doing things, hence the interest, if you do it by info in the file name,
of coding (for briefness, not only in display, but also for then filtering/searching for these tags!),
and of standardization (as such info is standardized e.g. for pics, and in ADS attributes, again both for visual reasons, if in the file names, and for easy and safe/complete access to the relevant files afterwards (i.e. you introduce variants, you'll inadvertantly leave some of the possible "hits" out, or the other way round, you just want xyz as an author's name, but you'll also get files where the same term is part of the original file title (e.g. "Answer on abc's Paper "def" in the "ghi Journal" in October 2013" - this will leave you not just one, but FOUR chances for getting false "hits"))).
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