For the first time in my life, I bought a new Apple gadget as soon as it went on sale. Some how I feel a little ashamed of this, but I'll get over it. Anyway, my iPad Mini arrived on Friday (actually, because of the lingering effects of hurricane Sandy on Newark airport in New Jersey, the FedEx plane arrived too late to get my package on the delivery truck, so I took myself to the FedEx facility to pick it up).

I had always been intrigued by the iPad, but thought that it was too big -- really not all that more portable than my MacBook and without the keyboard. But the Mini seemed to be the right size, and it is proving to be just that.

Of course, the first thing I did with it was scour the App Store looking for the right outlining and information apps. I had experience with some of these with my iPod Touch, but I also found some new options unavailable for the iPod.

Two in particular stand out so far:

- iThoughts is a mind mapping application that I've found really easy and fun to use. It exports outlines in OPML directly into the other app that impresses me so far.
- Outline Pro is focussed on building old-fashioned outlines. That is, each outline you build with it is a stand-alone document, such as an article or an essay. I have not used it a lot yet to see if it works as I expect, but I'm hopeful.

One thing that disappoints me is that so far is that I am unable to get into using Notebooks. This is an application that looks very promising and has a great reputation. I like the idea of it, but somehow it just hasn't inspired me. I had the same problem with the iPod version, but thought the larger screen of the Mini would alleviate that. Maybe my feelings will change with use.

Cotton is also very nice on the Mini, as is TaskPaper.

Anyway, the bottom line is that I love the Mini and have found myself already being more productive. It isn't outliner nirvana, but it is a step in that direction.

Steve

Take a peek at ProjectBook. It can create notes with outlines. It can also import doc, dock, pdf files and has a todo manager. The notes can have ink annotations. I use PB on an iPad3. Not sure how it will look on a mini, though.

Mike

Thanks Stephen and Mike.

Just bought Outliner Pro. But couldn't get Projectbook (which is exactly what I am missing) because right now it is only available in the US and Canadian iTunes Store - the developer says it will be available in Germany in fall (when I look out of my office window, I'd say it's already winter in Bavaria).

Franz

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

For the first time in my life, I bought a new Apple gadget as soon as it went on sale. Some
how I feel a little ashamed of this, but I'll get over it.

One thing that disappoints me is that so far
is that I am unable to get into using Notebooks. This is an application that looks very
promising and has a great reputation. I like the idea of it, but somehow it just hasn't
inspired me. I had the same problem with the iPod version, but thought the larger
screen of the Mini would alleviate that. Maybe my feelings will change with
use.

Steve,

Congratulations! I was a bit reluctant when I bought my iPad2 in early 2011, but I have not looked back. I'm not an Apple fan boy, but it was the best choice at the time, and it has held up well. Regarding Notebooks, it was one of the first programs that I bought, but it is one of the least used. It is a great design, but I have never quite got the hang of using it. There are Awesome Notes and Daily Notes to consider as well, but to be honest, I have not integrated either of them in my daily routine. Carbonfin Outliner, however, is another story. I like using it for outlines and durable checklists, and it like that it has a web verson that can sync with the iPad client. Good luck and keep us posted. I have been considering the mini as I would really like a small tablet that can be taken anywhere.

--Ken

Ken wrote:

Regarding Notebooks, it was one of the first
programs that I bought, but it is one of the least used.

Same here. The hindrance for me was the hierarchical folder structure which made it more cumbersome to transfer content to the desktop. This is why I switched to Nebulous Notes as my main note-taking app, so I can sync with a single Dropbox folder, from which I import them into ConnectedText.

I suggested early on to the developer to have the ability to compile the contents of the sub-folders and export them into a single document (Scrivener-style), which could have turned it into a serious writing tool for me. (Haven't checked recently, so I don't know if it's been implemented.)

Carbonfin Outliner, however, is another story. I like using it for outlines
and durable checklists, and it like that it has a web verson that can sync with the iPad
client.

Agreed. The web version is great to have. I notice that the Outline Pro people conveniently left that bit out from their unfavourable comparison:
http://outlineproapp.com/features/

Dr Andus wrote:

>Carbonfin Outliner, however, is another
story. I like using it for outlines
>and durable checklists, and it like that it has a
web verson that can sync with the iPad
>client.

Agreed. The web version is great to
have. I notice that the Outline Pro people conveniently left that bit out from their
unfavourable comparison:
http://outlineproapp.com/features/

I am not familiar with Outline Pro, but will give it a look, if only for the sake of CRIMP research. ;) The other thing that I forgot to mention, if I am remembering correctly, is that Carbonfin uses OPML, and its files can be read by Bonsai. I have not done so, as the web version suffices for my needs, but it is a nice option.

--Ken

Ken wrote:

I am not familiar with
Outline Pro, but will give it a look, if only for the sake of CRIMP research. ;)

I wasn't recommending Outline Pro (I've never tried it). I just included the link because they are comparing themselves with CarbonFin on there (among others).

The other

thing that I forgot to mention, if I am remembering correctly, is that Carbonfin uses
OPML, and its files can be read by Bonsai. I have not done so, as the web version suffices
for my needs, but it is a nice option.

Yes, I use that feature regularly.

Dr Andus wrote:

I wasn't recommending Outline Pro (I've never tried
it). I just included the link because they are comparing themselves with CarbonFin on
there (among others).

I did understand that it was not a recommendation from you, but Steve mentioned it in his original post, and it seemed worthy of a bit of research.

--Ken

Ken.

Outliner Pro also exports to OPML and Text and PDF. In case, you haven't seen.

Franz

My two cents: I use a few mind mapping apps (including iThoughtsHD) and I export my mind maps as OPML files into Outline Pro. Then, I use Outline Pro's "Open In..." feature to send my outlines to Pages. This workflow works real nice for me, though you're using 3 apps to do it.

This has been my experience with Outline Pro:

Pro's:
(1) Best interface of all the iPad outliners (in my opinion).
(2) Has paragraphs on the left for organization, not just one big bullet list.
(3) Easy to import/export via Dropbox, and exports (but can't re-open) PDF + text files
(4) Pretty customizable as far as outliners go
(5) Tracks references if you're a student

Con's:
(1) No iPhone or web app.
(2) Can't indent past 6 levels. Hasn't been a problem for me, but I'd suggest this app for outlining things like schoolwork and speeches, where you won't need more than 6 levels for any paragraph.
(3) Can't insert hyperlinks or images. If you want these features definitely check out OmniOutliner (it's almost a word processor).

Dr Andus wrote:

Ken wrote:
>I am not familiar with
>Outline Pro, but will give it a look, if only for
the sake of CRIMP research. ;)

I wasn't recommending Outline Pro (I've never tried
it). I just included the link because they are comparing themselves with CarbonFin on
there (among others).

The other
>thing that I forgot to mention, if I am
remembering correctly, is that Carbonfin uses
>OPML, and its files can be read by
Bonsai. I have not done so, as the web version suffices
>for my needs, but it is a nice
option.

Yes, I use that feature regularly.

Looking for a "notebook" style app to do what I was hoping Notebooks would do, I tried ProjectBook and a couple of other notebooks. These seem like good applications, but they weren't clicking for me, so I broke down and paid the (relatively) hefty price for Circus Ponies Notebook for iPad. Turns out, this is working pretty well for me. Where I find the notebook metaphor less appealing on the computer, it works well for me on the iPad Mini. I like being able to have separate notebooks for different arenas (which ProjectBook doesn't have). Also, I find the outlining in CPN the easiest to manage on the iPad Mini. The divider pages are helpful on the iPad, and the Multidex should prove to be quite useful as my notebooks get larger.

This is a preliminary report. I'm not urging anyone to rush out and buy this app -- at $30 you can't really afford to do it on spec, like you can with a $5 app. I'll report back as I use it more. (Still as yet to try: syncing with the MacBook version.)

Steve Z.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I like being able to have separate notebooks for different arenas (which
ProjectBook doesn't have).

Steve,

Glad to hear that CPNis working for you. It has been a while since I looked at it, so I might have to have another look. I am curious to know if you also looked at Awesome Notes and Daily Notes, and what you thought of them if you did.

--Ken

Steve,

I have a question too. As you've used the Mini more and more, have you found that the screen is large enough? If I had one, I'd use it for casual note-taking, on-the-fly outlining, and reading and possibly annotating pdfs. For myself for these sorts of purposes I'm wondering if the advantages of mobility and price outweigh the benefits of the bigger screen of its bigger brother.

Thanks!
H

P.S. (OT) I keep checking for your Curio review. Due soon?

I should perhaps have asked "Have you continued to find that the screen is large enough?", given what you say in your first post in this thread.

Hugh,

Yes, I do find the screen large enough for the types of tasks I'm trying to do. The smaller form seems to me to be better in for mobile note-taking than the regular sized iPad (which I've never used, so I'm surmizing), because it is easier to thumb type.

I generally have no problem reading the screen, though I did go out and buy myself a bit higher powered reading glasses.

It is remarkably portable, though. It fits into a small bag and I take it everywhere.

Regarding my Curio review: I finally finished it late last week, so it is ready to go live as soon as App Storm decides to do it -- usually takes about a week before they go live with them. I ended up writing about 3500 words -- and at that I left a lot out. This will be my last review for App Storm as they've instituted a policy requiring two reviews/articles a month to remain a writer for them. As you can tell from how long it has taken me to finish the Curio review, that's not something I can agree to. Anyway, thanks for asking!

Steve

Hugh wrote:

I should perhaps have asked "Have you continued to find that the screen is large
enough?", given what you say in your first post in this thread.

Hugh wrote:

Steve,

I have a question too. As you've used the Mini more and more, have you found
that the screen is large enough?

As an owner of an iPad2, I have similar concerns. When text is too small to read in the portrait mode, my default reading position, I usually switch to landscape and that often works well. As the mini has the same screen resolution as the iPad2, I am not sure how it will be for reading lengthy text. I do not mind small text, but there is a limit.

--Ken

Ken,

I have the Awesome Notes app on my iPod Touch. It's a nice application, but it is a bit of hybrid with a lot of task management and calendar features, which is redundant to PocketInformant, which I like a lot for that type of information (along with contact management).

I looked at Daily Notes on the App Store, but didn't bite.

One issue with CPN: It's one of the options for sending documents to from Dropbox, but it hasn't yet worked for me. Documents that open beautifully in Notebooks and ProjectBook don't appear at all in CPN. I'm not sure what the problem is -- the same documents didn't open in Cotton either. Just FYI.

Ken wrote:

Stephen Zeoli wrote:
>I like being able to have separate notebooks for different
arenas (which
>ProjectBook doesn't have).

Steve,

Glad to hear that CPNis
working for you. It has been a while since I looked at it, so I might have to have another
look. I am curious to know if you also looked at Awesome Notes and Daily Notes, and what
you thought of them if you did.

--Ken

I'm sorry to hear Notebooks didn't work for you, but it's very much horses for courses. I too went through a love-hate period with Notebooks, because it is a very sophisticated app with some idiosyncratic features. But once you explore it a bit you discover its true value - and for me, part of that is the immensely flexible interaction with the desktop. There are now PC and Mac clients, which automatically set themselves up with your Notebooks folder in Dropbox (if you've set one up). The things I like about Notebooks are:

a) the rich-text editor (simple but effective)
b) the HTML pages it produces (not unlike KeepNote!)
c) the fact you can copy and paste entire web pages (or bits of web pages) into the desktop version and have them rapidly synchronised and indexed on your iPad
d) the fact you can also insert web pages really easily on your iPad!
e) the very nice search function (you all know what a sucker I am for search); also the fact that it highlights search terms (unlike many other iOS apps)
f) the fact that you can, if you wish, use it as a task manager (setting due dates, with a calendar overview if you want it, etc.)
g) the support for tags (called 'Contexts' in Notebooks)

I confess I don't really use the support for file attachments (although I gather it does, and also indexes the contents, which is impressive!).

Having said all that, I use lots of other notebooks and outliners as well. My current favourites include Cotton Notes (vastly improved since its launch), Awesome Notes HD (which is very beautiful and surprisingly versatile), Notability (which is very impressive but slightly irritating) and OneNote plus its - non-Microsoft - sibling Outline+

I think Nebulous is brilliant for pure text editing (and has a very good search function, too!). It's by far the most flexible Dropbox-focused editor. But Daedalus is rather entertaining, too.

And finally, I keep playing with a true outliner called MindBits, which is education-focused but has some very extraordinary features. But it doesn't have a search function, alas...

Finally, for anybody who likes wikis, there's the very impressive TWMobile, which now syncs with Dropbox and allows you to import/export TiddlyWiki pages (and any other kind of HTML page, in fact; it can also unzip zipped files, so you can add TiddlyWiki extensions fairly easily).

MadaboutDana wrote:

I'm sorry to hear Notebooks didn't work for you, but it's very much horses for courses.
I too went through a love-hate period with Notebooks, because it is a very
sophisticated app with some idiosyncratic features. But once you explore it a bit you
discover its true value - and for me, part of that is the immensely flexible
interaction with the desktop. There are now PC and Mac clients, which automatically
set themselves up with your Notebooks folder in Dropbox (if you've set one up). The
things I like about Notebooks are:

a) the rich-text editor (simple but
effective)
b) the HTML pages it produces (not unlike KeepNote!)
c) the fact you can
copy and paste entire web pages (or bits of web pages) into the desktop version and have
them rapidly synchronised and indexed on your iPad
d) the fact you can also insert web
pages really easily on your iPad!
e) the very nice search function (you all know what a
sucker I am for search); also the fact that it highlights search terms (unlike many
other iOS apps)
f) the fact that you can, if you wish, use it as a task manager (setting
due dates, with a calendar overview if you want it, etc.)
g) the support for tags
(called 'Contexts' in Notebooks)

I confess I don't really use the support for file
attachments (although I gather it does, and also indexes the contents, which is
impressive!).

I do have a copy of Notebooks but haven't used it for a couple of years now. But it sounds like it's emerging as an alternative to Surfulater then (or what Surfulater wants to be), especially with the dekstop companion (which I haven't tried)?

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I ended up writing about
3500 words -- and at that I left a lot out.

Sounds like a deep examination (which the application indeed deserves). Looking forward to reading it!

This will be my last review for App Storm as
they've instituted a policy requiring two reviews/articles a month to remain a
writer for them.

Strange decision. Their loss. Great shame.

Yes, I think it is - and possibly even more powerful. The desktop app is not complete, yet - it doesn't have a search function, for example, or support the password-protection function in the iOS app. But it is a great way to store data (the HTML files can be searched easily enough from within Windows), and of course all data can be searched/sorted very comprehensively on one's iPad.

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Ken,

I have the Awesome Notes app on my iPod Touch. It's a nice application, but it is a
bit of hybrid with a lot of task management and calendar features, which is redundant
to PocketInformant, which I like a lot for that type of information (along with
contact management).

I looked at Daily Notes on the App Store, but didn't
bite.

Steve,

Thank you for the reply. I, too, use PI on the iPad and my Android phone, so I can relate to the feeling of redundancy. But, I did find these two programs a good alternative for project-based note-taking and task management. PI (combined with Toodledo) is for my personal use.

--Ken

I just want to correct something I wrote about Cotton that was wrong. I said that when I tried to send a document from Dropbox to Cotton, it didn't work. Actually it did. I was expecting to see the document text open in Cotton, but what Cotton did instead was to add the document to the list of attachments. This may be less useful, but appears to be the expected behavior.

Steve Z.

I have an Ipad3 and an iTouch. I've found that synchronizing data between 2 devices on Dropbox (and originally in iCloud) to be pretty flaky. On a single device, I think it may be a nice experience.

Mike