Hello all...

I've been using GS Notes (Golden Section Notes http://www.tgslabs.com ) from TGSlabs for years. I first began using it in 2002. Along the way I tried a few others, including TexNotes back when it was under the old owner. It became the epitome of bloatware for this type product and I finally ditched it completely. Now, GS Notes from my experiences the past year or so, has been abandoned. No response from support, old 'news' section, no new updates (and the last was a joke)...you get the idea. After almost continuous use since 2005 or so, I'm faced with finding something else.

I'm real tired of proprietary formats that don't allow all of the data to be exported in any real usable way. I never could export a notebook in full, only a folder. I'd love to find something from a company that doesn't fear people taking their data elsewhere.

Having been with GSNotes for so long I am used to the double pane, hierarchical method. I use the program mostly for research and notes. GS Notes has always been good with images inside notes, files, etc. but I'd like to add some decent web archiving to any wishlist for future purchase. So - the old question: since my PIM/Outliner (whatever we call all of this) has decided to give it up and not add any new functionality, where do I turn? I would be happy with something similar to GS Notes if only because of the comfort level. One thing I have always liked is the 'rich text' visual text editor that's fairly comprehensive, so I dislike anything that requires using keyboard codes to achieve the same thing rich text icons serve. Markdown, in general (at least the way I think it works) is just not for me.

The great PIM Heaven In the Sky seems to be getting crowded. Projects abandoned and so many started with less than a full commitment. For so many reasons, it seems many of these are biting the dust. I would love to find something that has some heft behind it and is a true labor of love so as to not have to go through this again in another year.

What about this MyBase that will be on bits. I just saw that post a few minutes ago and have never tried it. But I've found that trying something isn't the full story. Is there support behind a product? Updated frequently? Are customers loved or only a bother? So much of that can only be found out the hard way or through community experience such as this.

Sorry for the length. First post and fears I'm not getting across what I'm trying to get across. Sorry for that. If I've made enough sense for help - I'm all ears.

Welcome, Donovan. Thanks for joining our conversation.

myBase has been around for quite a while, at least 10 years and has been developed continually in that time. I was an early user, but switched to other options several years ago, so I can't comment on the feature set at this time, but I think you can be confident that it will be around and developed in the future.

Other two-pane, hieararchical options with a decent track record and more standard text formatting capabilities:

MyInfo: http://www.milenix.com/myinfo

UltraRecall: http://www.kinook.com/UltraRecall/
- although, as Daly mentioned in another post, there is reason to suspect that there will not be a lot of further development of UR

RightNote: http://www.bauerapps.com/RightNote.html
- not sure how it handles web archives (if it does at all)

Hope this gets you started in the search for the perfect PIM/outliner.

Steve Z.

1. I've used myBase/WebCollect for years and am quite happy with it. I recently said,

"I?ve used myBase/WebCollect for years and prefer it to Surfulater and other Web capture PIMs. Very occasionally a Web page cannot be saved, but this seldom occurs and saved Web pages appear in their original format unlike the saved pages in some other PIMs.

"A few months ago, I suddenly could not save new ?New York Times? pages. I contacted the developer (wjjsoft.com ; in China-excellent English) and within a few days it sent me a fix. The developer is very responsive."

HOWEVER, exporting information from myBase, should it become defunct, is not easy.

You may wish to try another approach that I've recently posted here. See:

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4079/0/using-a-pim-to-catalog-files-and-folders

and

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4146/0/using-a-pim-to-catalog-files-and-folders-redux

I've just started using TreePad Business to see how well my idea works (or doesn't). Less complex * less expensive versions of TreePad may work as well.

Curious, I am now trying out RightNote. The professional version ($60) does include a web capture tool, which on my limited testing works very effectively.

Steve Z.

There was a discussion of RightNote here back in March. Here's the link to the topic:

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/3812/

Also, if you do decide to go ahead and purchase right note, do it through Bits du Jour and get a 35% discount:

http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/rightnote/

Steve Z.

Donovan wrote:

I'm real tired of proprietary formats that don't
allow all of the data to be exported in any real usable way. I never could export a
notebook in full, only a folder. I'd love to find something from a company that doesn't
fear people taking their data elsewhere.

This is reasonable. At the same time, you should consider that the underlying structure of a contemporary advanced PIM is a complex relational database, and there are not many non-proprietary formats for that. Exporting the data in .csv (simple spreadsheet) format, as many do, provides only partially usable info.

Probably the most accepted 'format' for a relational database is SQL and in particular SQLite http://sqlite.org/ which is free and open source.

As I just wrote in another thread, UltraRecall's developer Kinook have provided a tool for managing UR files directly via SQLite, which is UR's database engine http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2825

In terms of future access to one's data, I believe this is as good as it gets. Another very good alternative is XML.

Thanks so much to all of you for the thoughts and ideas.

I plan to trial MyBase and RightNote. I gave Ultra Recall a chance last week, but it lost all of my data not once - but twice. I thought certainly "user error," but that second time there was no question, it's just buggy.

It's good to hear the positive info on MyBase from Cassious. Thanks!

I'll report back...

(This is a great place to scour the archives. So much good information. Thanks!)

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

There was a discussion of RightNote here back in March. Here's the link to the
topic:

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/3812/

Also, if you do
decide to go ahead and purchase right note, do it through Bits du Jour and get a 35%
discount:

http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/rightnote/

Steve Z.

Thanks, Steve...

I've almost spent an hour with RightNote and it's pretty intuitive. I think I might really like this. You mentioned the 35% off at Bits, but it says the deal is expired and looks like that was back in February. Is there still a way to get the 35% off that I'm not seeing?

I mentioned I had used TexNotes before and it became bloatware in the extreme. I went to GemxX's webpage just a minute ago and they have renamed do-Organizer to 'Harmony' and have made quite a few changes... http://www.gemx.com/index.php ...I downloaded it and am trying it as well. It's very comprehensive with all sorts of features. But again, I think it's way too much for me. I don't particularly like "kitchen sink" programs. RightNote seems to strike a happy medium.

Donovan wrote:

>Also,
if you do
>decide to go ahead and purchase right note, do it through Bits du Jour and get
a 35%

>discount:
>
>http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/rightnote/
>
>Steve Z.


Thanks, Steve...

I've almost spent an hour with RightNote and it's pretty
intuitive. I think I might really like this. You mentioned the 35% off at Bits, but it
says the deal is expired and looks like that was back in February. Is there still a way to
get the 35% off that I'm not seeing?

How frustrating. Just yesterday they were offering 35% off... I know because I bought a license. It was listed as one of their "featured deals," but isn't as of today. After my purchase they must have decided they were attracting too much riff raff! If you like RightNote, you might use it free for the month trial and keep your fingers crossed that they bring it back to Bits for the 50% off offer.

I'm sorry to have mislead you.

Steve Z.

But myBase is 50% off TODAY!

Cassius wrote:

But myBase is 50% off TODAY!

Okay, I have 8 hours left before myBase deal expires. BUT...putting all money considerations aside....assume it's not a factor....

Is there anyone here, who might be familiar with both programs, be willing to do a pros and cons of Rightnote and myBase? Mybase seems, on the surface at least, to be a much more complicated program. (Meaning its a "kitchen sink" program to me)...but maybe I am wrong.

All money issues aside....why would a person want myBase over Rightnote?

Thanks for the help. This is a great new community for me.

Donovan wrote:

... Mybase seems, on the surface at least, to be a much more complicated program. (Meaning its a "kitchen sink" program to me)...but maybe I am wrong.

I can't comment on RightNote, but here's something I said in the Bits du Jour comments:

"myBase has so many capabilities that I still haven't made use of all of them. I suggest you start with creating a new database (under FILE), adding Web pages (using WebCollect (right click on page), adding rtf notes, indexing (under FILE/Maintenance), and searching. That wil give you most of what you want."

In other words, you don't HAVE to use all the capabilities...I don't. You can do very well using the FILE menu, right clicking on Web pages, right clicking on tree items, and using a handful of icons on the task bars. I can even tell you which ones.

Thanks Cassius for taking the time to respond. I think I'm going to pass on myBase. I read the thread on bits and one thing struck me as odd and dishonest. Somebody asked how their program differs from InfoSelect and they claimed to have never heard of it (same for a couple of other programs people asked about). To me, if you don't know your competition, something is wrong. I really don't think they don't know - I think they were being dishonest. Somebody called them on it as I read down the thread and they didn't respond. Bad vibes. Maybe warranted, maybe not, but I'm going to move along. I'm trying a couple of others as well. So far, Rightnote hits the 'right' spot for me.

The developers, wjjsoft.com, are in Central China. (Their English is better than most Americans.)

I'm sorry. So many questions. Have any of you used Scrivener for a general research-keeper? I was looking at its tree-like structure and inclusion of web pages with an embedded browser, simple notes, quick search, nice word processor for writing, decent export functions. It only seems to lack a lot of the features utilizing right-click. Other than that, it's hard to find a lot to dislike.

I'm obviously becoming a serious Crimper here! (Thanks, Steve. I only found this place by following your Sherwood blog!)

I like Rightnote, but then I had never thought of using Scrivener as a PIM/outliner. At $40, seems like a steal.

Thoughts?

Me again, Wish there was a way to edit a post so I wouldn't have to make a new one - sorry.

Scrivener is really good with a BIG 'except for' .... it won't accept cutting and pasting of a page with links as clickable links(!) According to their forum it's something they "want to do." You can drag a link from the browser to a Scrivener page and its clickable, but not if you copy/paste. That makes it a complete no-go for me. Just thought I would let you know about this inexplicable missing feature.

Donovan wrote:

To me, if you don't know your competition, something is wrong.
I really don't think they don't know - I think they were being dishonest.

The developers wrote that they are "unfamiliar" with the program http://www.bitsdujour.com/software/mybase-desktop-addons-pack/ which can be interpreted in several ways. The number of two-pane outliners out there is incredible, and InfoSelect may not be considered the most relevant competitor to MyBase. In any case, I find that a question to a developer about how their product compares to others has no easy answer, and whatever the answer may be, it has to be taken with a grain of salt on the part of the user.

Donovan wrote:

Scrivener is really good with a BIG 'except for' .... it won't accept cutting
and pasting of a page with links as clickable links(!) According to their forum it's
something they "want to do." You can drag a link from the browser to a Scrivener page and
its clickable, but not if you copy/paste. That makes it a complete no-go for me. Just
thought I would let you know about this inexplicable missing feature.

Not inexplicable at all. Scrivener is targeted to writers and all its features are focused around that goal. It is not a general content organiser.

As you will read in several discussions here, it is often the features a developer leaves out that constitute a software's competitive advantage in terms of usability by its prospected customers.

I've been using RightNote for a few days. What I like about it is its overall functional feel. That is, it just feels natural and easy to use. It is far from the most powerful PIM on the market -- I'm sure that myBase is more powerful. But I for one never really got used to how myBase functions (and, yes, I did have a license for myBase, but I stopped upgrading many years ago). In RightNote a file holds several pages (or tabs) of outlined information. This seems like a nice design to me... all your information in one file, but parsed by tabs and then by outlines. Meta data in RN is limited to a clunky, but workable tagging system. The web page archiving works well in my short-term experience. So far I'm pleased with it, but the true test comes when it becomes crammed with information. That's the point at which I usually find myself getting frustrated with PIMs... which is just as likely to be a reflection on me than on the applications themselves.

As for Scrivener as a research manager, I think it could work, but is probably not optimal. The Mac version would be better. In the Mac version you can create custom data fields for the outline. In the PC version you're stuck with the ones they give you, although those are somewhat extensive. Nevertheless, I would not use either version for storing and organizing my notes, except on a very project-oriented basis. There are just too many better options.

On a side note, I do think Scrivener could be an excellent tool for managing a large project, however. Especially if you will need to make a report to your supervisor at the end of the project. I wrote a "theory" of using Scrivener for project management on the Literature and Latte Forum, here:

http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16169#p113401

Of course, with good intentions of trying this out, I didn't actually get that far!!!

Steve Z.

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Not inexplicable at all. Scrivener is targeted to writers and all
its features are focused around that goal. It is not a general content organiser.

I agree with Alexander. Scrivener is a unique and specialist writing tool first and foremost. I wouldn't recommend it (at least the Win version) as a general database for content and files. I tried to use it for that and found that 1) I had hard time finding stuff (even text) once hierarchy grew too large and complex; 2) even managing images was a hassle (for example resized images kept changing their size); and it slowed down once there was a lot of data (e.g. file backup took too long every time I closed the application). In fact this experience was what made me switch to a wiki solution (but you said you don't want to use markup).

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I wrote a ?theory? of using Scrivener for project management on the Literature and Latte Forum, here:
http://www.literatureandlatte.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=16169#p113401
Of course, with good intentions of trying this out, I didn?t actually get that far!!!

Thanks for this; very interesting post. I also read the other contributor's post which was linked in a comment.

Our concepts converge; I had a similar 'theory' for StoryBook which I've briefly outlined here in the past, but have been unable to test as yet. Now there's a new version of StoryBook out I have an extra incentive.

Thank you to all who have responded. Alexander and Dr. Andus, I appreciate the thoughts on Scrivener regarding clickable links and yes, your explanation makes perfect sense. Actually, it's my own argument against bloatware that I was failing to see with Scrivener. Meaning, they are sticking to what they do best and I was the one arguing for more in this instance.

And yes, I was probably too harsh in my judgement of myBase based on their comments in the bits thread. Maybe I only wanted an excuse to not buy a license for myBase. Our minds work in funny ways when we know what we really want (or don't want) but feel the need to justify it.

Stephen, Rightnote is feeling good to me as well. I like the moderate approach of finding a sweet spot between simplicity and complexity that doesn't feel like too much has been thrown in - or left out.

Again, thanks for the input and I'll lay low and trial what I have on my laptop for now. I will continue to read through past threads and archives and learn much of what has already been hashed and re-hashed here at the forum. Thanks so much to all who have taken time to respond. I'll be back!

Hi Donovan,

I am a user of UltraRecall, due to its flexibility. There are indeed some considerations, like a learning curve and sketchy web import at times, but overall it is a solid tool.

So I am wondering how you lost all your data - UR uses the MySQL database which is quite reliable. All new information is saved in the database when you click another node or hit the save button for embedded office files, etc. So data loss usually only occurs if the program crashes and you were editing an embedded file you hadn't saved.

But it seems that you lost all data? It sounds like a large part of the database was corrupted, which could be a disk write error or similar. Anyway, it might be worth mailing Kinook as they are usually quite responsive, especially with errors. They might have you send the corrupted file and thus be able to determine what happened.

Best, /Pavi

Donovan wrote:

Thanks so much to all of you for the thoughts and ideas.

I plan to trial MyBase and
RightNote. I gave Ultra Recall a chance last week, but it lost all of my data not once -
but twice. I thought certainly "user error," but that second time there was no
question, it's just buggy.

It's good to hear the positive info on MyBase from
Cassious. Thanks!

I'll report back...

(This is a great place to scour the
archives. So much good information. Thanks!)

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I?ve been using RightNote for a few days.
The web page archiving works well in my short-term experience.

I just downloaded RightNote to check out the web clipping feature but I ran into some problems pretty quickly. It was unable to clip a few lines of highlighted text from the BBC website, giving me a "Warning: Nothing clipped." When I checked the Help file, it says "KNOWN ISSUE: Currently there is a problem where this auto-copying stops working in some cases." However, the work-around suggested didn't work either.

So I think RightNote is not quite there yet as a viable alternative to Surfulater.

Donovan wrote:

You mentioned the 35% off at Bits, but it
says the deal is expired and looks like that was back in February. Is there still a way to

In case you haven't yet purchased your copy, there's an offer in Donationcoder for 30% off until end July http://www.donationcoder.com/forum/index.php?topic=31591.0