I've started a new topic, as the original wandered off into Connected Text.

My original thought was related to the concern (that many of us have and some of us have experienced) about a PIM becoming moribund and the necessity of transferring the information stored in it into some other application.

One possibility for avoiding this problem is to store all information in standard files (Word, Excel, .htm, .jpg, ...) and use a single PIM (or PIM-like) program (call it K) to store links to these files, with the links cataloged or categorized by topic.

Preferably, one would like the application K that stores the links to be one that is likely to be around for a very long time. MS Word would seem to be a good candidate.

I am still using Word 2000 and while it has some outlining capabilities, they are insufficient for the needs of most of us. Perhaps a later version of Word has better outlining capabilities.

A second requirement from my point of view is the ability to be able to drag and drop file links directly into K. Several applications have the capability of storing a link, but the process is more time consuming than a drag and drop.

Unfortunately drag and drop does not seem to work in Word 2000 (at least for .htm and .gif files).
Perhaps a later version of Word can accept drag and drop. (Anybody willing to test this for different file types?)

As I stated in my original topic ( http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4079/0/using-a-pim-to-catalog-files-and-folders ), I found only one application that would accept every link I dragged and dropped into it. That application is TreePad Business. There probably are others, but not among the ones I have.

If anyone knows of others, or has other ideas, please let us know.

Thanks!

-cassius

Here are the applications I'm aware of that (I believe) do what you're looking for:

TheBrain: You can choose to have either "virtual" folders, which provide links to all the files within a folder outside TheBrain, or you can choose to move those files into TheBrain. If you do this, the files remain in their native format... the advantage is that TheBrain then indexes the contents of the files for fast searches.

Zoot: You can drag files onto any Zoot folder and you get an option to import the file or create a link to it. Depending upon the file type, you have other options for how to handle them within Zoot. Zoot will also optionally try to import text from the linked file into the note area so that it can be found in a search. I have only tried Excel files and PDFs, but this seems to work fairly well.

OneNote: Drag and drop to a OneNote page also gives you the option of creating a link to the original or importing the file directly. If the Word option appeals to you, OneNote might take this one step further, allowing you to annotate your links very easily.

Anyway, those are the ones I'd check out if you haven't already.

Steve Z.

Just tried InfoRecall portable 15.3 trial version. It appears that one cannot drag and drop a link onto an IR "document" (right pane). It causes IR to freeze.

Thinking of the example of UltraRecal which should also do drag-n-drop with almost any file, files should be dragged to the tree pane to be included as separate elements.

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Thinking of the example of UltraRecal which should also do drag-n-drop with almost
any file, files should be dragged to the tree pane to be included as separate elements.

======
Question: If one did this, would the contents of the file appear in the right pane? If so, might one be tempted to delete the original file?

My thought was that if one couldn't find a suitable single pane outliner (that would have an extended life), one could use a two pane PIM (with an extended life) and place links in the right pane along with added commentary, notes, bibliographical information, etc.

I had thought of adding notes on a file in a summary tab of the file's properties, but this doesn't work...at least in XP.

Question: If one did this, would the
contents of the file appear in the right pane? If so, might one be tempted to delete the
original file?

The contents of the file will be displayed on the right pane if the program can make sense of it. For some files this is not evident.

In UltraRecall you have the option to link to the original file or embed it in the UR database. If you do the latter, you can then delete the original. Either way, one of the parameters that UR maintains per item is the original location, whether on disk or on the web.

I personally always keep the original.

UR also allows you to have notes and other meta-information such as flags on each item.

You can also drag and drop files into Whizfolders but it's probably not as elegant as UltraRecall and doesn't offer as many options for further analysis and annotation.

Another option could be Planz. I note that it's now open-sourced:
http://kftf.ischool.washington.edu/planner_index.htm

(P.S. Sorry for hijacking your other thread.)

cassius,

Maybe TreeProjects XL could be an option:
http://personaldatabase.org/

You need to install this to allow the indexing of pdf files:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=2611&fileID=2457

TreeProjects XL is very stable, very fast and has a small memory and disk footprint.

Dominik

ULTRA RECALL!! It does everything you require perfectly.

Just to expand on the other replies, in UR you can:

- Drag and drop office files, pictures, email (Outlook, etc.), rtf, etc. to the tree. The default action is to link the files, but with right click you chose can embed the files.

- View linked or embedded files either inline or by opening the external default program. This can be configured by the user.

- Drag and drop links to the main file pane. This is the scenario you mention to avoid deleting files.

- Drag and drop links to the notes pane. Thus, you could have files in the tree which are visible in the main window, with other file links in the notes pane.

- Drag and drop directories to either nodes or inside the main file pane. When you click on the directory, you get an explorer view of all files contained within.

- Have all linked or embedded files indexed.

In short, the power and customizability of UltraRecall is still amazing, and it suits your particular need exceptionally well.

Best, /Pavi

I tested UR a year or two ago, before I decided to consider just using links to folders and files. I found that UR's capability for capturing Web pages was poorer than that of myBase, Surfulater, or WebResearch. Has UR's Web Page capture substantially improved?

Also, does anyone have an opinion on the long-term viability of UR?

Based on the recent half-hearted upgrade, which made it costly, and the developer's chronic issues with communication, I'd say Ultra Recall should be put on a watch list. Also, a few years ago the developers indicated UR might not be a continuing product, then changed their mind.

Other reasons - the developers do not seem sensitive to basic issues such as problems with web pages, as Casius mentions, or the request for multiple windows (MyInfo has responded with ability to open multiple windows, though only the original window can be used for editing; editing for all windows may come with the next major upgrade).

Daly

Cassius wrote:

I tested UR a year or two ago, before I decided to consider just using links to folders
and files. I found that UR's capability for capturing Web pages was poorer than that of
myBase, Surfulater, or WebResearch. Has UR's Web Page capture substantially
improved?

Also, does anyone have an opinion on the long-term viability of UR?

Cassius wrote:

Also, does anyone have an opinion on the long-term viability of UR?

I've written some negative stuff about UltraRecall's development tactics (I definitely wouldn't call it a strategy) here http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4078/0/new-ultrarecall-version-released so in all fairness I should at least add here a couple of uniquely positive points on the program.

(1) I second Pavi's accolade on UR's file organisation abilities. In this respect I believe it is unsurpassable.

(2) In respect to UR's future I have no idea. But what I find excellent on behalf of its developer, Kinook, is that they've already provided a tool for managing UR files directly via SQLite, its database enegine http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=2825

SQLite http://sqlite.org/ is free and open source and, as stated in its website, the most widely used SQL database tool in the world. I can't think of a better way to ensure future access of one's data.

Based on Steve Zeoli's recommendation of RightNote, I downloaded the trial, portable copy.

Just like TreePad, it has accepted every file type and folder I dragged and dropped into it Also, it accepted pasted Web URLs as live links. In TreePad one has to go through an extra step for pasted URLs to become live links.

I've already started testing TreePad as a Cataloging PIM for file, folder and Web links.

Now I guess I have to do the same for RightNote, but first I'll check out the capabilities of its search function.

Hi, as a person who recommends UltraRecall, I have to point out that what Daly and Alexander mention are absolutely correct. For inexplicable reasons, the developer not only does not roll out new features that are expected, but also fails to inform users how the road plan changes and what to expect.

However, although UR is considered by some to be "long in the tooth", it still has amazing features, such as the attribute system, saved searches and folder/Outlook sync that are not found in other PIMS (well, some have attributes like MyInfo...). If Kinook would just communicate with us more..!

I for one consider UR 4.2 to be "feature complete" for my uses, with the possibility to export data in the future if needed (translation: it works for me now and I won't hold my breath on any new features I would like).

Best, /Pavi

Below, I've listed the PIMs that "our PIMmers" have suggested for the purpose of creating a catalog of files and folders (using drag-and-drop to add their links into the PIM). If there was uncertainty about a suggested PIM, I've placed a "?" after its name. Some PIMmers waxed soenthusiastically about a PIM that I've included their comments.

So far, I've been testing the idea using TreePad Business just to get a feel of how comfortable it is to create tree topics, drag-and-drop files/folders into the right pane corresponding to a topic, and later finding and retrieving a file of interest. I'll try this later with other PIMs.

Here's the list:

TreePad Business
MyInfo
The Brain (not dual pane)
Connected Text
Smereka TreeProjects
Topicscape pro 2 ?
Zoot
OneNote
InfoRecall
WhizFolders
Planz ?
Planz looks like a single pane outliner. I intend to test it for outliner flexibility as well as drag-and-drop ease.

TreeProjects XL:
Maybe TreeProjects XL could be an option:
http://personaldatabase.org/
(You need to install this to allow the indexing of pdf files:
http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/thankyou.jsp?ftpID=2611&fileID=2457 )
TreeProjects XL is very stable, very fast and has a small memory and disk footprint.

UltraRecall:
ULTRA RECALL!! It does everything you require perfectly.

Just to expand on the other replies, in UR you can:

- Drag and drop office files, pictures, email (Outlook, etc.), rtf, etc. to the tree. The default action is to link the files, but with right click you chose can embed the files.

- View linked or embedded files either inline or by opening the external default program. This can be configured by the user.

- Drag and drop links to the main file pane. This is the scenario you mention to avoid deleting files.

- Drag and drop links to the notes pane. Thus, you could have files in the tree which are visible in the main window, with other file links in the notes pane.

- Drag and drop directories to either nodes or inside the main file pane. When you click on the directory, you get an explorer view of all files contained within.

- Have all linked or embedded files indexed.

In short, the power and customizability of UltraRecall is still amazing, and it suits your particular need exceptionally well.

Best, /Pavi