This morning I logged on to ADM's d/l page. Nothing new, as might be expected. What a waste.

Jan, I am not surprised. Increasingly I am wishing ADM was being developed.

It was one thing that Eric, who quotes Gandhi, treated us like crap.

I would have thought that Arne, as a seasoned business guy with a reputation to protect, would have kept faith with us.

But he hasn't either.

Very sad.

Daly

Jan Rifkinson wrote:

This morning I logged on to ADM's d/l page. Nothing new, as might be expected. What a
waste.

They seemed to have a rather complete division of labor, Eric, commercial, Arne, technical. If Eric jumped ship, Arne would probably be at a loss on how to proceed. I reported one interaction with Arne, not favorably, but unlike Eric, I did not conclude Arne was dishonest.

To me the initial attraction of ADM was its monolithic outlining orientation. Everything was--at least potentially--one big outline. Some outlining features remain unique to ADM 2 and 3. (I've never seen 4.) Unfortunately, the features contain flaws, and going into version 4, I saw no real intent to correct the defects.

Daly, I certainly understand your frustration as I share much of it, myself. However, I am of the opinion that -- for some reason -- ADM was Eric's baby for the most part & Arne had neither the time nor inclination to be involved. I think ADM was very much a sideline for him. Below is my post to Arne. I rcvd no response.

|---------------------------[ Start ] -------------------------|

Imported from: (WinClipBrd)
Import date: 2/12/2007 11:17:33 AM

From: Jan Rifkinson
To: arne@adm21.net
Date: Monday, February 12, 2007
Subj: ADM situation

Hi Arne, We've not corresponded before but -- in desperation... well,
maybe extreme frustration & a little anger -- I'm writing you as a
last resort.

From early in ADM's development, I spent hours & hours of my time
testing, suggesting, discussing, helping & proselytizing for ADM. My
testimonial for ADM appears on http://www.adm21.net/testimonials.html
I had the time to spend on ADM because I'm semi-retired & I was
interested in the product as I have been in Lotus Agenda, Ecco Pro,
& Zoot.

As a consequence of my participation in ADM matters, Eric Sommner
voluntarily offered me a free lifetime license to ADM &, later, a
'piece' of the company if I would help write part of the help system.

Except for the ADM license I excused myself from any formal
relationship w ADM. And to be honest, I would have paid for an ADM
license & told Eric so.

I continued being supportive, reporting bugs, making suggestions &
helping other users master ADM. I started a support email list on
yahoo (which I eventually folded for lack of interest). When Eric
moved to China I helped debug betas via Skype, a tedious process to
say the least.

Then ever so slowly, it became apparent that Eric was withdrawing from
the process & communication with him was sporadic despite pleas from a
number of users to tell us what was *really* going on. Everyone
understood that there might be financing problems & I believe all
anyone wanted was some kind of *realistic* status report.

Some of us became privileged members of the development list and some
of us took that membership & the responsibility that came with it very
seriously. I know I did. So did others. Those who were most critical
of ADM's seemingly haphazard development path were removed from this
list early on. Communications with an editor at the SKYPE journal was
severed for perceived slights on Eric's girlfriend.

After asking for clarifications & asking about further communications
and after asking about the status of the program & after trying to
mount intelligent dialogue about the direction of ADM & after getting
responses that seemed less than candid from Eric & after closing the
users list down for lack of interest -- there hadn't been a posting in
months -- Eric summarily removed me from the developers list because
he thought I was being negative. He recently removed another
supporter, citing a program he saw in China about censorship. Can you
imagine what this looks like in the public domain when someone pops up
& asks about ADM & is told this story?

I had a guy write to my personal address (from somewhere in Europe)
asking about ADM 4 because he had been unsuccessful contacting anyone
@ ADM. I responded & forwarded his email to every ADM address I had. I
don't know if he got his answer but I certainly had no response.

So why do I tell you all this? Not for a pat on the back. Not for a
thank you. Not for money.

But to say that, in my opinion, the current state of ADM -- from all I
know -- is truly shameful. It's a good product. I use it even today
but w/o tech support, no sense of progress for western markets, an
uncommunicative CEO who seems immature, vindictive & petulant at
times, it's hard -- nay almost impossible -- to remain committed to
the project. It seems I am by myself when it comes to ADM.

But what do I know? Not much. And why is that? Because Eric, the front
man for ADM, has alienated so many of us that everyone I know who, at
one time, were enthusiastic ADM supporters, have moved on for lack of
communication from Eric, no customer service or tech support, nor a
meaningful road map of product development, and a sense that they paid
for a beta (true) since -- to date -- a commercial, final version of
ADM 4 has ever been released to the best of anyone's knowledge. I
can't defend that any more as, at this point, even I have to admit it
seems to be true.

As I understand it, Arne, you have a viable company with many
impressive clients. The only way you got there was with a good
product, hard work & customer support. This is what was lacking with
ADM.

Zoot, a 16 bit competitor is now being converted to 32 bits & then
moving into RTF, etc. Yet this 16 bit, text only product still has
thousands of users & supporters. These people, who constantly,
periodically & respectfully communicate with Zoot's author, Tom Davis,
even volunteered to give him up front money if it would help him in
his development because they have confidence in him, something he has
engendered simply by communicating with the Zoot community in an up
front manner. This is what Eric missed out on.

As a practical matter, I don't actually know what purpose this email
will serve. I have nothing against ADM or Eric, certainly not you but
I am frustrated.

The only practical matter that I can think of is that I'd like my
testimonial on the ADM site removed since I can no longer support the
product.

Ref: http://www.adm21.net/testimonials.html

Well, Arne, thank you for your time & early support of ADM. I don't
know what your interest is in the program at this time but I wish all
this had turned out differently. I'm convinced it could have but I
fear it's time has passed. Hopefully, I'm wrong.

Sincerely,

|--------------------------- [ End ] --------------------------|

Stephen, I originally thought as you did.

I think Eric was certainly ADM's front man, that he may even had originally conceptually ADM.

In reality I think Eric's life has revolved more around various social causes.

Arne seems to have been the successul business person.

For some reason I thought Arne was doing most of the technical stuff on ADM. But I am told that was not the case; whether he had the technical capability to do so is another matter, however. Perhaps he did, and was responsible for hiring the outside help. Again I do not know.

Who really knows?

Daly

Stephen R. Diamond wrote:

They seemed to have a rather complete division of labor, Eric, commercial, Arne,
technical. If Eric jumped ship, Arne would probably be at a loss on how to proceed. I
reported one interaction with Arne, not favorably, but unlike Eric, I did not
conclude Arne was dishonest.

To me the initial attraction of ADM was its monolithic
outlining orientation. Everything was--at least potentially--one big outline.
Some outlining features remain unique to ADM 2 and 3. (I've never seen 4.)
Unfortunately, the features contain flaws, and going into version 4, I saw no real
intent to correct the defects.

Jan, given the gentlemanly way you wrote that letter, and the lack of response, I wonder how you would write it today.

Daly

Jan Rifkinson wrote:

Daly, I certainly understand your frustration as I share much of it, myself. However,
I am of the opinion that -- for some reason -- ADM was Eric's baby for the most part & Arne
had neither the time nor inclination to be involved. I think ADM was very much a
sideline for him. Below is my post to Arne. I rcvd no response.


|---------------------------[ Start ]
-------------------------|

Imported from: (WinClipBrd)
Import date:
2/12/2007 11:17:33 AM

From: Jan Rifkinson
To:
arne@adm21.net
Date: Monday, February 12, 2007
Subj: ADM
situation

Hi Arne, We've not corresponded before but -- in desperation...
well,
maybe extreme frustration & a little anger -- I'm writing you as a
last
resort.

From early in ADM's development, I spent hours & hours of my time
testing,
suggesting, discussing, helping & proselytizing for ADM. My
testimonial for ADM
appears on http://www.adm21.net/testimonials.html
I had the time to spend on ADM
because I'm semi-retired & I was
interested in the product as I have been in Lotus
Agenda, Ecco Pro,
& Zoot.

As a consequence of my participation in ADM matters, Eric
Sommner
voluntarily offered me a free lifetime license to ADM &, later, a
'piece' of
the company if I would help write part of the help system.

Except for the ADM license I
excused myself from any formal
relationship w ADM. And to be honest, I would have paid
for an ADM
license & told Eric so.

I continued being supportive, reporting bugs,
making suggestions &
helping other users master ADM. I started a support email list
on
yahoo (which I eventually folded for lack of interest). When Eric
moved to China I
helped debug betas via Skype, a tedious process to
say the least.

Then ever so
slowly, it became apparent that Eric was withdrawing from
the process &
communication with him was sporadic despite pleas from a
number of users to tell us
what was *really* going on. Everyone
understood that there might be financing
problems & I believe all
anyone wanted was some kind of *realistic* status
report.

Some of us became privileged members of the development list and some
of us
took that membership & the responsibility that came with it very
seriously. I know I
did. So did others. Those who were most critical
of ADM's seemingly haphazard
development path were removed from this
list early on. Communications with an
editor at the SKYPE journal was
severed for perceived slights on Eric's
girlfriend.

After asking for clarifications & asking about further
communications
and after asking about the status of the program & after trying
to
mount intelligent dialogue about the direction of ADM & after getting
responses
that seemed less than candid from Eric & after closing the
users list down for lack of
interest -- there hadn't been a posting in
months -- Eric summarily removed me from
the developers list because
he thought I was being negative. He recently removed
another
supporter, citing a program he saw in China about censorship. Can
you
imagine what this looks like in the public domain when someone pops up
& asks
about ADM & is told this story?

I had a guy write to my personal address (from
somewhere in Europe)
asking about ADM 4 because he had been unsuccessful contacting
anyone
@ ADM. I responded & forwarded his email to every ADM address I had. I
don't
know if he got his answer but I certainly had no response.

So why do I tell you all this?
Not for a pat on the back. Not for a
thank you. Not for money.

But to say that, in my
opinion, the current state of ADM -- from all I
know -- is truly shameful. It's a good
product. I use it even today
but w/o tech support, no sense of progress for western
markets, an
uncommunicative CEO who seems immature, vindictive & petulant
at
times, it's hard -- nay almost impossible -- to remain committed to
the project.
It seems I am by myself when it comes to ADM.

But what do I know? Not much. And why is
that? Because Eric, the front
man for ADM, has alienated so many of us that everyone I
know who, at
one time, were enthusiastic ADM supporters, have moved on for lack
of
communication from Eric, no customer service or tech support, nor a
meaningful
road map of product development, and a sense that they paid
for a beta (true) since --
to date -- a commercial, final version of
ADM 4 has ever been released to the best of
anyone's knowledge. I
can't defend that any more as, at this point, even I have to
admit it
seems to be true.

As I understand it, Arne, you have a viable company with
many
impressive clients. The only way you got there was with a good
product, hard
work & customer support. This is what was lacking with
ADM.

Zoot, a 16 bit
competitor is now being converted to 32 bits & then
moving into RTF, etc. Yet this 16
bit, text only product still has
thousands of users & supporters. These people, who
constantly,
periodically & respectfully communicate with Zoot's author, Tom
Davis,
even volunteered to give him up front money if it would help him in
his
development because they have confidence in him, something he has
engendered
simply by communicating with the Zoot community in an up
front manner. This is what
Eric missed out on.

As a practical matter, I don't actually know what purpose this
email
will serve. I have nothing against ADM or Eric, certainly not you but
I am
frustrated.

The only practical matter that I can think of is that I'd like
my
testimonial on the ADM site removed since I can no longer support
the
product.

Ref: http://www.adm21.net/testimonials.html

Well, Arne,
thank you for your time & early support of ADM. I don't
know what your interest is in the
program at this time but I wish all
this had turned out differently. I'm convinced it
could have but I
fear it's time has passed. Hopefully, I'm
wrong.

Sincerely,

|--------------------------- [ End ]
--------------------------|

Daly de Gagne wrote:

Jan, given the gentlemanly way you wrote that letter, and the lack of response, I
wonder how you would write it today.

Me too, Daly. I'd like to think that I could still make an impassioned plea for the program w/o being rude but I can't guarantee it would happen. I had to accept the idea that I had been taken for a ride, nothing more was probably going to come of it, & that it was time to move on. In the interim, I was able to use an interesting program. I might have been in Katrina's path & that would have been far worse. :-)

-jan

Jan -- a crazy thought!

Do you think ADM has wind of what might be in Zoot32, and decided it couldn't compete.

The assumption is that the Admiral is simply going to give us 32-bit version of Zoot 4 -- but what if he has added some new features, as advanced and sophisticated as the existing features were (and still are ) when Zoot first came out?

That could tip the PIM worlds on its head!

Daly

Jan Rifkinson wrote:

Daly de Gagne wrote:
>Jan, given the gentlemanly way you wrote that letter, and the
lack of response, I
>wonder how you would write it today.

Me too, Daly. I'd like to
think that I could still make an impassioned plea for the program w/o being rude but I
can't guarantee it would happen. I had to accept the idea that I had been taken for a
ride, nothing more was probably going to come of it, & that it was time to move on. In the
interim, I was able to use an interesting program. I might have been in Katrina's path &
that would have been far worse. :-)

-jan

Daly de Gagne wrote:

Jan -- a crazy thought!

Do you think ADM has wind of what might be in Zoot32, and
decided it couldn't compete.

Nope, I think it imploded because of Eric's approach to development, communication, etc. At some level I think he was in over his head, i.e. he was not given an inappropriate responsibility based on his talents. OTOH, at this stage -- & here comes a bit of testiness -- I'm not sure what would actually have been an appropriate responsibility for him @ the end of the day.

The assumption is that the Admiral is simply going to
give us 32-bit version of Zoot 4 -- but what if he has added some new features, as
advanced and sophisticated as the existing features were (and still are ) when Zoot
first came out?

That could tip the PIM worlds on its head!

Yes, it might but I think Tom Davis has stated that he will first make sure that Zoot 32 is working sans bugs before moving on to any other 'stuff'.

Personally, I think it will be years before seeing substantial differences in Zoot. He's a methodical guy &, as a result, has a very stable program. I don't think he's going to abandon that approach at this late date.

Edited later to make more sense..

>Do you think ADM has wind of what might be in Zoot32

Nope, I think it imploded because of Eric's approach to development, communication, etc. At some level I think he was in over his head, i.e. he was miscast based on his talents. OTOH, at this stage -- & here comes a bit of testiness -- I'm not sure what would actually have been an appropriate responsibility for him in the real world.

>The assumption is that the Admiral is simply going to
>give us 32-bit version of
Zoot 4 -- but what if he has added some new features, as
>advanced and sophisticated as
the existing features were (and still are ) when Zoot
>first came out?

>That could
tip the PIM worlds on its head!

Yes, it might but I think Tom Davis has stated that he will first make sure that Zoot 32 is working sans bugs before moving on to any other 'stuff'.

Personally, I think it will be years before seeing substantial differences in Zoot. He's a methodical guy &, as a result, has a very stable program. I don't think he's going to abandon that approach at this late date. Nor, incidentally, do I think his user base would want him to change his modus operandi.

Jan Rifkinson wrote:

Tom Davis has stated that he will first make sure that Zoot 32 is working sans bugs
before moving on to any other 'stuff'.

Personally, I think it will be years before
seeing substantial differences in Zoot. He's a methodical guy &, as a result, has a
very stable program. I don't think he's going to abandon that approach at this late
date. Nor, incidentally, do I think his user base would want him to change his modus
operandi.

I agree completely, Jan. There was a time, before Tom Davis moved to Florida, when there were constant improvements and functional enhancements to Zoot -- seemed like every week or two a new version was posted. I suspect the daunting task of converting Zoot to 32-bit technology is partly what brought those enhancements to a slow crawl. I would like to think that other enhancements made possible by 32-bit technology will come along at a constant pace once the conversion is complete, but that might be wishful thinking. Either way, I think Tom has made it clear that the next version of Zoot will not be an enhanced version, just converted to 32-bit technology.

Steve Z.