Retrospective outlining
Started by Dr Andus
on 3/30/2012
Dr Andus
3/30/2012 10:52 pm
I wonder if anyone else does this and if you use an outliner for this? I could call it "retrospective" or "reverse" outlining. Usually when we talk about outlining we mean a process that precedes writing or writing-up. However, I find that in the process of writing the structure of my text often changes and at the end it departs significantly from the original outline. Then I need to engage in "retrospective outlining," i.e. drawing up an outline that reflects the new hierarchical logical structure of the now completed draft. The purpose of this is to get an overview of the argument and structure of a large document (10k+ word social science paper or book chapter).
In the past I just used Natara Bonsai and later on Noteliner to reconstruct the implicit outline. Then I discovered MS Word 2010's navigation pane, which can display a retrospective outline (Table of Contents) if you apply headings. But I was never fully satisfied with that solution, as visually the hierarchy is not that clear and it takes up a lot of screen space to display complex hierarchies, not to mention that I may not want my document to have so many headings. So it's a trade-off between having a ridiculous amount of headings or not having a detailed enough retrospective outline.
And this is where ConnectedText comes in. I have just realised that CT's Table of Contents pane in fact can be used as a real-time outliner (i.e. it doesn't even have to be retrospective). As I'm writing a text and creating hierarchical sub-headings, all I need to do is have the TOC open somewhere (usually docked on the left) and switch between edit and view modes for the real-time outline to be displayed instantly. This is extremely useful, as I no longer need to wonder about the nature of the evolving logical structure while I'm writing or have to reconstruct it afterwards.
Is anyone else aware of a similar "retrospective" or "real-time outliner"?
In the past I just used Natara Bonsai and later on Noteliner to reconstruct the implicit outline. Then I discovered MS Word 2010's navigation pane, which can display a retrospective outline (Table of Contents) if you apply headings. But I was never fully satisfied with that solution, as visually the hierarchy is not that clear and it takes up a lot of screen space to display complex hierarchies, not to mention that I may not want my document to have so many headings. So it's a trade-off between having a ridiculous amount of headings or not having a detailed enough retrospective outline.
And this is where ConnectedText comes in. I have just realised that CT's Table of Contents pane in fact can be used as a real-time outliner (i.e. it doesn't even have to be retrospective). As I'm writing a text and creating hierarchical sub-headings, all I need to do is have the TOC open somewhere (usually docked on the left) and switch between edit and view modes for the real-time outline to be displayed instantly. This is extremely useful, as I no longer need to wonder about the nature of the evolving logical structure while I'm writing or have to reconstruct it afterwards.
Is anyone else aware of a similar "retrospective" or "real-time outliner"?
Alexander Deliyannis
3/31/2012 4:59 pm
Dr Andus wrote:
For me outlining has always been a continuous two-way process in the way you describe and back again; I suspect for others here as well. The tools I use for writing support this way of working, though clearly some are better than others. I would note two aspects to what you describe:
(a) Bottom-up development of the outline; focus on the detail writing and the outline will build/update itself.
(b) Text re-organisation: I expect that when one looks at an outline developed from (a), s/he will become aware of possible weaknesses, e.g. over-emphasis on one argument and under-representation of another, in which case the top-down process would recommence, by adding/removing headings etc.
The way I see it, Connected Text seems indeed very well suited for (a); as Steve noted recently , you can start by creating 'cards' and think about the structure later, as connections between the cards develop. I know of many 'visual' tools that can do this, as well as (b), but most would be useless for texts growing to the thousands of words with tens of headings.
So, with this application in mind:
- For (a) I can think of two very powerful tools, namely Brainstorm and Sense; a separate post should follow sometime soon from my part on Sense, which is developing very nicely.
- For (b) I would think again of Brainstorm --JB has built a significant part of his Cyborganize system on Brainstorm's powerful re-organisation features- Sense, as well as MaxThink.
However, I find that in the
process of writing the structure of my text often changes and at the end it departs
significantly from the original outline.
For me outlining has always been a continuous two-way process in the way you describe and back again; I suspect for others here as well. The tools I use for writing support this way of working, though clearly some are better than others. I would note two aspects to what you describe:
(a) Bottom-up development of the outline; focus on the detail writing and the outline will build/update itself.
(b) Text re-organisation: I expect that when one looks at an outline developed from (a), s/he will become aware of possible weaknesses, e.g. over-emphasis on one argument and under-representation of another, in which case the top-down process would recommence, by adding/removing headings etc.
The way I see it, Connected Text seems indeed very well suited for (a); as Steve noted recently , you can start by creating 'cards' and think about the structure later, as connections between the cards develop. I know of many 'visual' tools that can do this, as well as (b), but most would be useless for texts growing to the thousands of words with tens of headings.
So, with this application in mind:
- For (a) I can think of two very powerful tools, namely Brainstorm and Sense; a separate post should follow sometime soon from my part on Sense, which is developing very nicely.
- For (b) I would think again of Brainstorm --JB has built a significant part of his Cyborganize system on Brainstorm's powerful re-organisation features- Sense, as well as MaxThink.
Stephen Zeoli
3/31/2012 8:32 pm
There is an application called Writer's Blocks which may do this. The program has been around for quite some time, and had been stalled at version 3.0 for at least six or seven years. But recently, version 4 came out. I can't speak for how well it does what it is supposed to do, but what it is supposed to do is pretty interesting. It may be worth taking a look at:
http://www.writersblocks.com/
Steve Z.
http://www.writersblocks.com/
Steve Z.
Dr Andus
3/31/2012 9:48 pm
Alexander/Steve,
thanks for the suggestions. I can see that once we move to these more advanced aspects of outlining, the software that can do them are either the ones that take quite a bit of effort to figure out or the ones that cost quite a lot of money :)
thanks for the suggestions. I can see that once we move to these more advanced aspects of outlining, the software that can do them are either the ones that take quite a bit of effort to figure out or the ones that cost quite a lot of money :)
Alexander Deliyannis
4/1/2012 6:25 am
Dr Andus wrote:
Quite possibly, as with most 'advanced' things in life. I look forward to including outlining at the Khan Academy http://www.khanacademy.org/
But then again, the effort to figure out usually goes hand in hand with the power of the software that we employ here; it is quite possible that other tools that you already use can do such retrospective (I would prefer the term iterative) outlining. See below for an example.
Dr Andus wrote:
I expect that in Word you can set up styles that are identical in everything except for their outline level. So, for example, below level 3 subheading you could have several more paragraph levels that would be properly indented in the outline view, but without appearing as headings in the text. The disadvantage is that you would have whole paragraphs in the outline.
For such 'micro-outlining' I find that Sense is ideal; in the outline you can go down to paragraph level if you want, effectively having a bird's eye view of the full text.
I can see that once we move to these
more advanced aspects of outlining, the software that can do them are either the ones
that take quite a bit of effort to figure out or the ones that cost quite a lot of money :)
Quite possibly, as with most 'advanced' things in life. I look forward to including outlining at the Khan Academy http://www.khanacademy.org/
But then again, the effort to figure out usually goes hand in hand with the power of the software that we employ here; it is quite possible that other tools that you already use can do such retrospective (I would prefer the term iterative) outlining. See below for an example.
Dr Andus wrote:
So it's a trade-off
between having a ridiculous amount of headings or not having a detailed enough
retrospective outline.
I expect that in Word you can set up styles that are identical in everything except for their outline level. So, for example, below level 3 subheading you could have several more paragraph levels that would be properly indented in the outline view, but without appearing as headings in the text. The disadvantage is that you would have whole paragraphs in the outline.
For such 'micro-outlining' I find that Sense is ideal; in the outline you can go down to paragraph level if you want, effectively having a bird's eye view of the full text.
Stephen Zeoli
4/1/2012 11:48 am
This is an interesting topic. It relates to a feeling I've long had about outliners, namely that the ones which of restrict your outline to individual blocks of text are not really outliners at all. They are hierarchical information managers. A true outliner allows you to see the entire structure -- including the text related to each heading of the outline -- in a single window so that you not only understand the structure, but you also understand the flow of words.
In other words, what you're looking for is an outline view and a document view, in which the document view shows your entire project in a single pane. Changes made in either view are instantly reflected in the other. Alternatively, an application could work the way old GrandView did. It was a single-pane outliner in which your text was visible inline, but could be switched on or off, so you could see it all, or just the structure. In my view, none of the current outliners (OmniOutliner, Neo) handle inline text well enough to really pull this off.
In fact, the number of applications which actually do this is very small. Scrivener comes close with its scrivenings view, which shows your project in one flowing document, and has the option of displaying titles. You can edit titles and text in the scrivenings view and those changes are reflected in the Binder. However, in a quick test I just made it looks like you can't rearrange the sections in the scrivenings view without messing up the Binder. (This relates to the Mac version of Scrivener. I doubt the PC version is even this sophisticated.)
I would say that ConnectedText is likely the best at this, another reason for admiring it.
Steve Z.
In other words, what you're looking for is an outline view and a document view, in which the document view shows your entire project in a single pane. Changes made in either view are instantly reflected in the other. Alternatively, an application could work the way old GrandView did. It was a single-pane outliner in which your text was visible inline, but could be switched on or off, so you could see it all, or just the structure. In my view, none of the current outliners (OmniOutliner, Neo) handle inline text well enough to really pull this off.
In fact, the number of applications which actually do this is very small. Scrivener comes close with its scrivenings view, which shows your project in one flowing document, and has the option of displaying titles. You can edit titles and text in the scrivenings view and those changes are reflected in the Binder. However, in a quick test I just made it looks like you can't rearrange the sections in the scrivenings view without messing up the Binder. (This relates to the Mac version of Scrivener. I doubt the PC version is even this sophisticated.)
I would say that ConnectedText is likely the best at this, another reason for admiring it.
Steve Z.
Dr Andus
4/1/2012 1:42 pm
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
Interesting point, Steve, about outliners not being outliners...
I think CT is not quite there yet either. The problem at the moment is that if you are working on a long document, then the table of contents view gets long too, and so switching back and forth between the view and edit mode requires a lot of scrolling in the TOC pane. Although you can collapse headings and thus make the TOC text appear without the scroll bar, for some reason CT expands the collapsed headings every time one saves the document or switches between the view and edit mode (switching is required for updating the TOC).
Alexander, thanks for the SENSE suggestion. I looked at it in the past and I couldn't quite figure out what I could use it for. But if it can do this kind of iterative, retrospective outlining with large documents, then that would be an interesting niche and worth taking another look.
I will check out Writer's Blocks too, though the price is a big disincentive for spending time with it, given the features that it seems to have, which seem rather basic. But that's just my first impression and perhaps an unfair one.
As for Brainstorm, I have the same problem as I had with CT for many years. Whenever I looked at it I just couldn't get my head around it quickly enough to carry on. But as my CT experience had just taught me, there might be rewards for persevering...
This is an interesting topic. It relates to a feeling I've long had about outliners,
namely that the ones which of restrict your outline to individual blocks of text are
not really outliners at all. They are hierarchical information managers. A true
outliner allows you to see the entire structure -- including the text related to each
heading of the outline -- in a single window so that you not only understand the
structure, but you also understand the flow of words.
In other words, what you're
looking for is an outline view and a document view, in which the document view shows
your entire project in a single pane. Changes made in either view are instantly
reflected in the other. Alternatively, an application could work the way old
GrandView did. It was a single-pane outliner in which your text was visible inline,
but could be switched on or off, so you could see it all, or just the structure. In my
view, none of the current outliners (OmniOutliner, Neo) handle inline text well
enough to really pull this off.
Interesting point, Steve, about outliners not being outliners...
I
would say that ConnectedText is likely the best at this, another reason for admiring
it.
I think CT is not quite there yet either. The problem at the moment is that if you are working on a long document, then the table of contents view gets long too, and so switching back and forth between the view and edit mode requires a lot of scrolling in the TOC pane. Although you can collapse headings and thus make the TOC text appear without the scroll bar, for some reason CT expands the collapsed headings every time one saves the document or switches between the view and edit mode (switching is required for updating the TOC).
Alexander, thanks for the SENSE suggestion. I looked at it in the past and I couldn't quite figure out what I could use it for. But if it can do this kind of iterative, retrospective outlining with large documents, then that would be an interesting niche and worth taking another look.
I will check out Writer's Blocks too, though the price is a big disincentive for spending time with it, given the features that it seems to have, which seem rather basic. But that's just my first impression and perhaps an unfair one.
As for Brainstorm, I have the same problem as I had with CT for many years. Whenever I looked at it I just couldn't get my head around it quickly enough to carry on. But as my CT experience had just taught me, there might be rewards for persevering...
Eduardo Mauro
4/1/2012 4:46 pm
I think CT is not quite there yet either. The problem at the moment is
that if you are working on a long document, then the table of contents view gets long
too, and so switching back and forth between the view and edit mode requires a lot of
scrolling in the TOC pane. Although you can collapse headings and thus make the TOC
text appear without the scroll bar, for some reason CT expands the collapsed headings
every time one saves the document or switches between the view and edit mode
(switching is required for updating the TOC).
Dr Andus,
If you have any suggestion of how we can improve CT regarding this, let me know.
BTW, we just released a new version.
Best regards,
Eduardo Mauro
Dr Andus
4/1/2012 6:11 pm
Eduardo Mauro wrote:
Hi Eduardo,
I don't know how easy it is to do technically but if the collapsed headings would stay collapsed when switching from the edit mode to the view mode (and thus updating/refreshing the TOC) that would do the trick. Then one could work on a very long document because by collapsing level one headers for instance the TOC text would be visible in the pane and there would be no need to scroll.
An alternative and improved solution could be to have a keyboard shortcut or a button somewhere that could update the TOC without having to switch from edit to view mode (and also keeping collapsed headers collapsed).
Thanks for your consideration. I'm looking forward to upgrading to the new version.
If you have any suggestion of how we can
improve CT regarding this, let me know.
Hi Eduardo,
I don't know how easy it is to do technically but if the collapsed headings would stay collapsed when switching from the edit mode to the view mode (and thus updating/refreshing the TOC) that would do the trick. Then one could work on a very long document because by collapsing level one headers for instance the TOC text would be visible in the pane and there would be no need to scroll.
An alternative and improved solution could be to have a keyboard shortcut or a button somewhere that could update the TOC without having to switch from edit to view mode (and also keeping collapsed headers collapsed).
Thanks for your consideration. I'm looking forward to upgrading to the new version.
Cassius
4/2/2012 12:37 am
The following rather fits the title, if not the subject:
In high school & college, long before PCs, we were supposed to first create an outline and then write the document. I always did the reverse.
When GrandView came, I immediately purchased it and used it for everything. I even created a macro to reverse an outline's hierarchy. I still didn't "outline" first, but wrote my documents in GV so I could easily rearrange the text when I thought it was appropriate.
In high school & college, long before PCs, we were supposed to first create an outline and then write the document. I always did the reverse.
When GrandView came, I immediately purchased it and used it for everything. I even created a macro to reverse an outline's hierarchy. I still didn't "outline" first, but wrote my documents in GV so I could easily rearrange the text when I thought it was appropriate.
Dr Andus
4/4/2012 11:02 pm
Eduardo Mauro wrote:
>If you have any suggestion of how we can
>improve CT regarding
this, let me know.
Hi Eduardo,
I don't know how easy it is to do technically but if the
collapsed headings would stay collapsed when switching from the edit mode to the view
mode (and thus updating/refreshing the TOC) that would do the trick. Then one could
work on a very long document because by collapsing level one headers for instance the
TOC text would be visible in the pane and there would be no need to scroll.
Another feature that could support the use of the Table of Contents pane (TOC) for real-time outlining would be if the TOC had word wrap. At the moment if the headings get a bit long, one needs to scroll across, if the TOC pane is not wide enough (which is a function of how many other panes are open and how big one's monitor is). With a word wrap option it would be easier to get a better view of the outline.
Eduardo Mauro
4/5/2012 12:53 am
Dr Andus,
We are working to improve the TOC view. I suggest posting your suggestions in our forum so other users can comment them as well.
Best regards,
Eduardo Mauro
We are working to improve the TOC view. I suggest posting your suggestions in our forum so other users can comment them as well.
Best regards,
Eduardo Mauro
Backbutton
4/8/2012 10:56 pm
Cassius wrote:
The following rather fits the title, if not the subject:
In high school & college,
long before PCs, we were supposed to first create an outline and then write the
document. I always did the reverse.
When GrandView came, I immediately purchased
it and used it for everything. I even created a macro to reverse an outline's
hierarchy. I still didn't "outline" first, but wrote my documents in GV so I could
easily rearrange the text when I thought it was appropriate.
Were you able to find something equivalent to GrandView? I have been looking for years. Recently installed GrandView in VMWare 7, but could not export the outlines to Windows, so I can continue working on the document in MS Word.
Wish someone could recreate GrandView. I don't have the technical ability to do so. How hard would it be to port it over to Windows, does anyone know?
Cassius
4/9/2012 6:39 am
A Windows port of GV's predecessor, PC Outline, was tried, but didn't work very well. See my comments in your GV thread.
==================================
Backbutton wrote:
==================================
Backbutton wrote:
Cassius wrote:
>The following rather fits the title, if not the subject:
>
>In
high school & college,
>long before PCs, we were supposed to first create an outline
and then write the
>document. I always did the reverse.
>
>When GrandView came, I
immediately purchased
>it and used it for everything. I even created a macro to
reverse an outline's
>hierarchy. I still didn't "outline" first, but wrote my
documents in GV so I could
>easily rearrange the text when I thought it was
appropriate.
Were you able to find something equivalent to GrandView? I have been
looking for years. Recently installed GrandView in VMWare 7, but could not export the
outlines to Windows, so I can continue working on the document in MS Word.
Wish
someone could recreate GrandView. I don't have the technical ability to do so. How
hard would it be to port it over to Windows, does anyone know?
Alexander Deliyannis
4/16/2012 11:09 am
This entry on reverse outlining is useful for reference; I found it via Manfred Kuhn's blog:
http://mendota.english.wisc.edu/~WAC/page.jsp?id=51&c_type=category&c_id=32
http://mendota.english.wisc.edu/~WAC/page.jsp?id=51&c_type=category&c_id=32
Dr Andus
4/18/2012 12:10 pm
Alexander Deliyannis wrote:
This entry on reverse outlining is useful for reference; I found it via Manfred Kuhn?s blog:
http://mendota.english.wisc.edu/~WAC/page.jsp?id=51&c_type=category&c_id=32
Thanks for this. Good to see that this has been taken up in the composition teaching world. However, I would still like to make a distinction between reverse outlining and real-time outlining. The former you do after you have completed the draft, but the latter happens simultaneously while you are writing. This is where I thought ConnectedText's TOC pane is very handy, as well as the "folding" function in edit mode, which allows you to collapse ("fold") the various headings of the text as you write, thus giving you an overview of the outline (hierarchical structure) as it emerges in real-time.
Eduardo Mauro
4/29/2012 2:10 pm
Dr Andus,
Contact me privately using the Contact form in CT site. There are some improvements in the TOC view that I think you might be interested. I would like you to try them out.
Contact me privately using the Contact form in CT site. There are some improvements in the TOC view that I think you might be interested. I would like you to try them out.
Dr Andus
5/9/2012 11:47 pm
Dr Andus wrote:
Well, I have just trialled the forthcoming version of CT (I think it will be 5.0.0.11) and Eduardo had not only resolved the above issue but he turned the Table of Contents (TOC) pane into a proper real-time, live outliner. This means that as you type in the edit window, the TOC now automatically displays the developing outline (the hierarchical structure of headings 5 level deep). No need to switch from "edit" to "view" (or hit "save") in order to update the TOC. The outline (or parts of it) will now stay collapsed or expanded, regardless of the length of the outline. Brilliant!!
The added bonus for me is that I also use the TOC as a qualitative analysis tool for annotating long texts (a process similar to "reverse outlining"), and that now happens live too.
So if I said that "CT was not quite there yet," now it's definitely there and probably beyond :) Thanks Eduardo!
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
>would say that ConnectedText is likely the best at this, another reason for
admiring
>it.
I think CT is not quite there yet either. The problem at the moment is
that if you are working on a long document, then the table of contents view gets long
too, and so switching back and forth between the view and edit mode requires a lot of
scrolling in the TOC pane. Although you can collapse headings and thus make the TOC
text appear without the scroll bar, for some reason CT expands the collapsed headings
every time one saves the document or switches between the view and edit mode
(switching is required for updating the TOC).
Well, I have just trialled the forthcoming version of CT (I think it will be 5.0.0.11) and Eduardo had not only resolved the above issue but he turned the Table of Contents (TOC) pane into a proper real-time, live outliner. This means that as you type in the edit window, the TOC now automatically displays the developing outline (the hierarchical structure of headings 5 level deep). No need to switch from "edit" to "view" (or hit "save") in order to update the TOC. The outline (or parts of it) will now stay collapsed or expanded, regardless of the length of the outline. Brilliant!!
The added bonus for me is that I also use the TOC as a qualitative analysis tool for annotating long texts (a process similar to "reverse outlining"), and that now happens live too.
So if I said that "CT was not quite there yet," now it's definitely there and probably beyond :) Thanks Eduardo!
Alexander Deliyannis
5/10/2012 7:28 am
At the end of the day, choosing a program for the developer's responsiveness over a 'completely complete' feature set makes sense.
Are the five levels a permanent limitation? I.e. does CT limit the number of levels it displays in the outline? As I understand, the sequence of interconnections itself (which would translate as a hierarchy starting from the home node) is essentially limitless.
the TOC now automatically displays the developing outline
(the hierarchical structure of headings 5 level deep).
Are the five levels a permanent limitation? I.e. does CT limit the number of levels it displays in the outline? As I understand, the sequence of interconnections itself (which would translate as a hierarchy starting from the home node) is essentially limitless.
tradercclee
5/10/2012 2:46 pm
I can't wait to try this!
I bought CT but can't seem to get into it regularly.
The markup and "edit mode" slows me down quite a bit.
I end up fussing with editing more than just letting my ideas flow like I do in Brainstorm.
Not giving up yet though...
I bought CT but can't seem to get into it regularly.
The markup and "edit mode" slows me down quite a bit.
I end up fussing with editing more than just letting my ideas flow like I do in Brainstorm.
Not giving up yet though...
Well, I have just trialled the forthcoming version of CT (I think it will be
5.0.0.11) and Eduardo had not only resolved the above issue but he turned the Table of
Contents (TOC) pane into a proper real-time, live outliner. This means that as you
type in the edit window, the TOC now automatically displays the developing outline
(the hierarchical structure of headings 5 level deep). No need to switch from "edit"
to "view" (or hit "save") in order to update the TOC. The outline (or parts of it) will
now stay collapsed or expanded, regardless of the length of the outline.
Brilliant!!
The added bonus for me is that I also use the TOC as a qualitative
analysis tool for annotating long texts (a process similar to "reverse outlining"),
and that now happens live too.
So if I said that "CT was not quite there yet," now it's
definitely there and probably beyond :) Thanks Eduardo!
Dr Andus
5/11/2012 7:03 pm
Alexander Deliyannis wrote:
Hi Alexander, I should have probably made it clear that I was only referring to the Table of Contents (TOC) headings, rather than the actual Outline tool. To my knowledge there are at least 3 ways to do outlining (i.e. creating a hierarchical structure) in ConnectedText.
1. The Outline pane, which is a dedicated outliner with unlimited levels.
2. An unlimited hierarchy of "topics" (documents) linked via the Home node (but can be developed via linking to any "topic" really, by making it the 'home').
3. The TOC pane that is for developing a hierarchy of headings and sub-headings within a single "topic." This one is limited to 5 levels.
It is this third one that now has been turned into a real-time outliner, even though it's original function was to display the hierarchy of headings just like in Word's Navigation Pane.
I don't actually mind the 5-level limitation. When it comes to structuring a text (retrospectively or while developing it), I find this limitation helpful as it imposes some discipline and prevents outlinititis (a condition whereby I develop such a detailed outline that I lose all sense of spatial awareness :)
>Dr Andus wrote:
>the TOC now automatically
displays the developing outline
>(the hierarchical structure of headings 5 level
deep).
Are the five levels a permanent limitation? I.e. does CT limit the number of
levels it displays in the outline? As I understand, the sequence of interconnections
itself (which would translate as a hierarchy starting from the home node) is
essentially limitless.
Hi Alexander, I should have probably made it clear that I was only referring to the Table of Contents (TOC) headings, rather than the actual Outline tool. To my knowledge there are at least 3 ways to do outlining (i.e. creating a hierarchical structure) in ConnectedText.
1. The Outline pane, which is a dedicated outliner with unlimited levels.
2. An unlimited hierarchy of "topics" (documents) linked via the Home node (but can be developed via linking to any "topic" really, by making it the 'home').
3. The TOC pane that is for developing a hierarchy of headings and sub-headings within a single "topic." This one is limited to 5 levels.
It is this third one that now has been turned into a real-time outliner, even though it's original function was to display the hierarchy of headings just like in Word's Navigation Pane.
I don't actually mind the 5-level limitation. When it comes to structuring a text (retrospectively or while developing it), I find this limitation helpful as it imposes some discipline and prevents outlinititis (a condition whereby I develop such a detailed outline that I lose all sense of spatial awareness :)
Dr Andus
6/30/2012 5:05 pm
Regarding "live outlining" (having an outline created according to headings of a text as you write) and "reverse outlining" (developing an outline for an existing document retrospectively), I'm hearing through the grapevine that the forthcoming beta ConnectedText 6 (to be released in a couple of months) is going to introduce some new features to the Table of Contents (TOC) pane that can already do the above. Apparently it will be possible to rearrange headings and the text belonging to those headings directly in the TOC pane (i.e. the "outline").
I'm interested in this development as this would mean that the TOC (and CT) can be used as an outliner that is capable of having in-line notes (the text) under each heading and then having them easily and quickly rearranged (as there don't seem to be many outliners with in-line notes out there).
The other interesting application for this feature would be the quick restructuring of large texts.
You can already do the above in CT but it requires copy-and-paste and the manual restructuring of the header hierarchy. (Please note that the TOC is different from the "Outliner" function and pane in CT. That's yet another way to do outlining in CT.)
I'm interested in this development as this would mean that the TOC (and CT) can be used as an outliner that is capable of having in-line notes (the text) under each heading and then having them easily and quickly rearranged (as there don't seem to be many outliners with in-line notes out there).
The other interesting application for this feature would be the quick restructuring of large texts.
You can already do the above in CT but it requires copy-and-paste and the manual restructuring of the header hierarchy. (Please note that the TOC is different from the "Outliner" function and pane in CT. That's yet another way to do outlining in CT.)
Dr Andus
6/30/2012 5:08 pm
Dr Andus wrote:
I'm assuming that's what Sense might be for, though I haven't been able to spend time with Sense yet. But it sounds like CT is developing capabilities that are similar to that of Sense (?)
The other interesting application for this feature would be the
quick restructuring of large texts.
I'm assuming that's what Sense might be for, though I haven't been able to spend time with Sense yet. But it sounds like CT is developing capabilities that are similar to that of Sense (?)
Alexander Deliyannis
6/30/2012 10:31 pm
Indeed I find Sense unsurpassable for working on long texts, keeping track of both the overview and the detail. Sense is basically a two-pane outliner, where each paragraph, header or chapter in the detail pane (right) becomes a line in the explorer tree (left). The two views can be maintained constantly in sync, and if you want to focus on a specific area of the text, you can collapse all the rest in both panes.
For one-pane fans it is now possible to hide the tree completely and do everything in the detail pane alone.
Sense has its quirks, but I like the direction it is heading to, and the developer is very open to suggestions.
For one-pane fans it is now possible to hide the tree completely and do everything in the detail pane alone.
Sense has its quirks, but I like the direction it is heading to, and the developer is very open to suggestions.
notreadbyhumans
7/5/2012 9:03 pm
For an online solution to retrospective outlining there's 'The Outliner of Giants' which allows you to upload existing unstructured document and then break it down into its component parts:
http://www.theoutlinerofgiants.com/
Further, it allows you 'split' paragraphs down to their component parts as well so you end up with a fully structured outline, useful if you are going back to re-write or re-structure a document..
http://www.theoutlinerofgiants.com/
Further, it allows you 'split' paragraphs down to their component parts as well so you end up with a fully structured outline, useful if you are going back to re-write or re-structure a document..
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