I tested the new zoot 6 and i am really impressed.
It could be the all-in-one PIM solution.

What do you think about zoot 6 ?
What do you miss in zoot 6 ?

I've been a long time Zoot fan, but it has taken me some time to warm up to XT, but it is growing on me. So far I miss two things:

1. The ability to print mailing labels.
2. A comprehensive help file so I can figure out if there are other things I'm missing.


Steve Z.

I was a longtime Zoot user who abandoned the previous version for other apps that offered the glory of richtext.

I haven't gone back for two reasons:

* I hate the default dark color scheme, though, yes, I know I can change it. There's a reason no successful mainstream apps that I know of use a dark color scheme like that.

* It kept freezing for me when I used Chrome. I did notify the developer but he couldn't trace the problem, nor could I.

I should clarify. CHROME would freeze, not Zoot.

Another thing that discourages me is that the developer, Tom Davis, is building in all these hooks to web services like Facebook and Twitter, which I think is a mistake. Given how long it's taken him to produce this latest version, that says to me that an inordinate amount of his future development time will be spent trying to keep it operating with those constantly changing APIs instead of on Zoot's core information-handling tasks.

And finally, I'm now suffering from IAF -- information-app fatigue.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH MARK!!!

Mark wrote:

Another thing that discourages
me is that the developer, Tom Davis, is building in all these hooks to web services like
Facebook and Twitter, which I think is a mistake. Given how long it's taken him to
produce this latest version, that says to me that an inordinate amount of his future
development time will be spent trying to keep it operating with those constantly
changing APIs instead of on Zoot's core information-handling tasks.

Yes Yes Yes, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH MARK!!!

Another thing that discourages
me is that the developer, Tom Davis, is building in all these hooks to web services like
Facebook and Twitter, which I think is a mistake. Given how long it's taken him to
produce this latest version, that says to me that an inordinate amount of his future
development time will be spent trying to keep it operating with those constantly
changing APIs instead of on Zoot's core information-handling tasks.

Yes, I'm afraid it would also take a lot to get me to look again at Zoot 6.

The time it's taken to produce in unbelievable (I think it's now more than 2 years beyond its initial published release date). It's not so much the speed of release a the constant posting of dates which then get left behind - I'd rather not know than be constantly kept on tenterhooks like that.

I also found data being lost in Zoot, even in the stable previous versions. In Zoot 6 (when still in beta) I couldn't get all my data out of it. When I'd get any response from Tom (unlike some other people I found the support really poor - often there'd be not response at all) it would be put down to some hidden and undocumented feature. With hidden features messing with my data and my head, I decided to stop wanting to get Zoot to work for me and to move to more stable, understandable alternatives.

Graham

I can understand the frustrations with Zoot over the past few years. But I have to say that through the endless updates -- minor and major -- Zoot has worked seamlessly for me, at least in terms of my information. Sometimes it has done some funky things, but I have never lost data and I have found the core functionality remains powerful. I tried switching to UR and MyInfo when I began to lose faith that we'd ever see Zoot 6, but neither of those fine applications has been able to replicate what I can do with Zoot. It may help that I don't rely on Zoot for all my information management (see comments on PersonalBrain from previous posts). I agree that the addition of cloud-type integration is probably problematic, and have no interest in using those functions (although, I may use the Dropbox sync at some point).

Anyway, I am looking forward to the official release, which I hope will include a comprehensive help file. Then I'll be able to make a more informed decision about my future Zootiness.

Steve Z.

Mark wrote:

And finally,
I'm now suffering from IAF -- information-app fatigue.

Yes, I have felt this way for the last few years, especially when there is a device/OS change in my life. Having access to data on many devices comes at a price. And, having new apps popping out left and right can give CRIMPing a bad name. There was a certain comfort to using ECCO on one machine, and some days I am tempted to go back to doing just that, although my new laptop is running Win7-64,and I am not certain if the stock ECCO program will install without serious modification.

--Ken

This is an interesting thread. I enjoyed reading all the posts.
I am new to this forum (this is my 2nd post today), but I have been reading it in my feed aggregator (Google reader) for quite a while. I rarely visit the forum.

I have trialled/evaluated lots of PIM tools and started to suffer from the abovementioned IAF (Information-App Fatigue) a couple of years back.
I have recently again been reviewing various client-based PIM and Wiki tools, but still am unable to find any single one that meets my peculiar requirements.
I have been a user of the excellent IS (Info Select) for years, but stopped upgrading it at version 8 as the developer seemed to have the software not on a systematic developmental path (e.g., providing improved functionality to meet users' defined requirements) but rather on an ad hoc change-thrashing path that was focussed on *features* rather than requirements.
At the time I started using IS, it was my first choice (after evaluation) instead of Zoot - which I also evaluated and which was my second choice. I have occasionally re-evaluated Zoot over the ensuing years but never had a sufficiently compelling reason to overcome my IS-inertia and migrate away from IS to Zoot.
Zoot was(is) a superb piece of software, IMHO, but the comments in this discussion thread seem to indicate that its development might have an unclear path/purpose - same as IS, I guess. This is a pity, as I had always through that Zoot would probably be the best tool for me to move to.

I am currently indexing/searching/finding, storing and managing my information (knowledge base) using various disparate tools:
- IS8
- Google Desktop (and Indexing/Search).
- Windows 7 Indexing/Search.
- ScrapBook add-on (and indexing/search) in Firefox
- CHS (Clipboard Help and Spell) from Donation Coder.
- Lotus Agenda (for DOS-based storage of legacy data only).
- Qiqqi (a reference management and OCR/index/search tool for text in PDF document/image files). I am trialling this.
- xplorer?
- Google docs and Google docs Sync.
- Gmail (integration of email and Google docs).
- MS Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access) + MS Project.
- MS OneNote. I am trialling this.

Though I have assiduously avoided using the proprietary MS Outlook unless obliged to do so by clients (I work as an independent consultant), I have recently started trialling Jello Dashboard, which is not a standalone application but is built rather like an add-in to Outlook. Looking through the Jello-Outlook functionality, I figured that not only might Jello-Outlook provide a partial replacement for Info Select, but it also seemed to have some of the capability to automatically dynamically filter/categorise information items in the same way as Lotus Agenda, and in a similar way that can be done in the CHS database.

*@Mark*: re your post above about Zoot and Facebook/twitter.
I had always rather hoped that Zoot might be the ultimate PIM for me and could be taken by its developer in a direction that would eliminate the unavoidable and inefficient overlap and duplication that is inherent in the above set of tools that I am using. However, if it now seems that his greatest worry (?) is to keep it in step and integrated with the dynamically changing APIs for "social networks", then I fail to comprehend the rationale for this.

Welcome aboard.

I think it is inaccurate to view Zoot as now being focussed on a Twitter/Facebook development path. Zoot XT has many enhancements, and I do not believe Tom Davis has shirked the core functionality of Zoot. I do agree that engaing the cloud as he has may slow future development, but development has long been slow, even before the advent of the cloud. I'm not saying I'm thrilled about the cloud-focus, and I'm sure you are right that it will absorb more development time, but at least it ensures development will continue.

And, as I said, there is a lot more to Zoot XT than cloud-support.

Steve Z.

Slartibartfarst wrote:

This is an interesting thread. I enjoyed reading all the posts.
I am new to this forum
(this is my 2nd post today), but I have been reading it in my feed aggregator (Google
reader) for quite a while. I rarely visit the forum.

*@Mark*: re your post above about Zoot and
Facebook/twitter.
I had always rather hoped that Zoot might be the ultimate PIM for
me and could be taken by its developer in a direction that would eliminate the
unavoidable and inefficient overlap and duplication that is inherent in the above
set of tools that I am using. However, if it now seems that his greatest worry (?) is to
keep it in step and integrated with the dynamically changing APIs for "social
networks", then I fail to comprehend the rationale for this.

I beg to disagree. I believe that Tom has taken the only reasonable route to maintain his application relevant in a networking world: to link it with services like gmail, twitter and, yes, facebook (apparently facebook messaging competes with email in the number of messages sent worldwide). Yes, significant investment will be needed, but the alternative would be to lose the ever-expanding clientele which expects every software they purchase to be also available for web, iPhone, iPad, Android etc...

Providing such connectivity expands Zoot's capabilities and accessibility without needing to develop for additional platforms.

I should note that a very significant percentage of software discussed here which I adore, is becoming more and more useless for me because I cannot use it in a collaborative setting.

Further, re social networking: I belong to a generation that did not have it or missed it, but now find that I need to learn it and use it, or else my own work will become largely irrelevant. I appreciate it when tools that are familiar to me (Zoot actually is not) evolve to cater for these changing circumstances.


Mark wrote:

Another thing that discourages
me is that the developer, Tom Davis, is building in all these hooks to web services like
Facebook and Twitter, which I think is a mistake. Given how long it's taken him to
produce this latest version, that says to me that an inordinate amount of his future
development time will be spent trying to keep it operating with those constantly
changing APIs instead of on Zoot's core information-handling tasks.

What both Alexander and Steve said. While I too, am of the generation that grew up without social media - in fact - even without PCs (!) - I love being able to communicate with friends and family on other continents so conveniently.
One of the main requirements today is to be able to access your information wherever you are - I find myself increasingly impatient with software that expects me to always be at my one PC. So Tom's persistence in massaging Zoot to cooperate with gmail, and especially Evernote is, IMHO, to be applauded. Apart from the fact that Zoot XT (6) has made some truly remarkable improvements and added functionality.
(uhm, ah... does it show that I like it? ;-)

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

.... a very significant percentage of software discussed here which I adore, is
becoming more and more useless for me because I cannot use it in a collaborative
setting.

Further, re social networking: I belong to a generation that did not have
it or missed it, but now find that I need to learn it and use it, or else my own work will
become largely irrelevant. I appreciate it when tools that are familiar to me (Zoot
actually is not) evolve to cater for these changing circumstances.

In my experience, collaboration-ware tends to be insufficient for personal use, and vice versa. That's sort of inherent - personal flexibility is lost with cross platform and cross-person availability and 1-1 correspondence.

I agree, but Zoot is not collaboration-ware; it is a PIM which connects to external communication channels. Much of the software we discuss here does this to an extent, either directly or indirectly. E.g. Outlook, Chaos Intellect and Daisho directly integrate email with contact and task management. By contrast, UltraRecall can link to Outlook emails rather than include an email client.

Zoot has taken the direct route, which in my view is the hardest; as Tom himself noted, Zoot is many apps in one, and each one of those (e.g. the email client) represents a formidable task in itself. It is also very ambitious, including mail, RSS, social media, you name it. But, if it manages to be at least good at most of what it does, the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts.

The concept is not completely new. Omea Pro (no longer developed) integrated just about every channel there was at the time. The challenge is significant though; I can almost compare it with having Google (Mail, Calendar, Reader, Groups, etc.) installed in your PC, in terms of the extended integration of services.


JBfrom wrote:

In my experience, collaboration-ware tends to be insufficient for personal use, and
vice versa. That's sort of inherent - personal flexibility is lost with cross
platform and cross-person availability and 1-1 correspondence.

Ah ok, I see what you're saying now. That is ambitious and interesting.

For a PIM such as Zoot, it is possible that pursuing a strategic direction of product integration with social networking sites may prove to be misguided.
Some people might say (not me, you understand) that it can be shown that social networking sites consume real human creative effort and/or work in their development, whilst providing a trivial service of no real value to humanity. That is, the service merely blots up the user's productive time and cognitive surplus - hence the term "social NOTworking".

For example: *Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKmQW_Nkfk8

The discussion is currently focusing on the social media services.
I would like to ask you to direct the discussion to another point.
There are so many programs out there and some features may overlap.
Some programs perform specific functions that no other
program offers.
For example, Devonthink has artificial intelligence.
Without this artificial intelligence, DEVONthink would lose its real value.

Back to my three main questions.
1 What are the core functions of Zoot, which you can not cope with the other programs.
2 What do you think is unique about Zoot?
3 What do you think is still missing in Zoot?

These are good questions. I am wondering the same.

Too often I have flitted around to the "next best thing" only to find that I spent too much time converting data to use with the new "thing" and this new "thing" didn't add that much to my knowledge or ability to find information. Lots of hype, lots of buzz, lots of flash, but not much more.

I like the solutions that are focused and fast. I like Brainstorm because it works. It's unique. It is focused and I know what it can do.

Steve

maties wrote:

The discussion is currently focusing on the social media services.
I would like to
ask you to direct the discussion to another point.
There are so many programs out
there and some features may overlap.
Some programs perform specific functions that
no other
program offers.
For example, Devonthink has artificial
intelligence.
Without this artificial intelligence, DEVONthink would lose its
real value.

Back to my three main questions.
1 What are the core functions of Zoot,
which you can not cope with the other programs.
2 What do you think is unique about
Zoot?
3 What do you think is still missing in Zoot?

It's hard to describe all the great features of Zoot, because there are so many. I used to say that Tom Davis would add functionality before anyone even realized they needed it; or to put it another way, if I decided I needed to do something with my information, I almost inevitably found that Zoot had that ability built in. Other applications have caught up some, but not in every area. The core function of Zoot, I suppose, is the smart folder. Not only do Zoot's smart folders act as saved searches, they also can perform actions on your notes, such as moving completed items to a completed folder, highlighting items that have a certain due date. The only other application that has both those features is Tinderbox, at least that I'm aware of.

So there are two ways to use Zoot, I think. Dump info into it and rely upon smart folders later on to make sense of it. Or set up elaborate databases ahead of time to organize more structured information. I use it both ways. I have a database, for instance, for tracking my inventory purchases. I have the following columns in the grid:

Description
Item#*
Vendor*
Date
Type*
Invoice#
Paid

The columns I've marked with asterisks are "folder" columns. For example, the Vendor column creates a folder called "Vendor" and each new vendor I add gets a folder created automatically that collects purchases from that vendor. As I add records to the main folder, I instantly have my data organized for me. If I need to know all the purchases from one vendor, I just click on the vendor folder. If I need to see the last time we purchased Item X, I just click on the Item X folder. And this is fast and easy to set up.

Steve Z.
maties wrote:

The discussion is currently focusing on the social media services.
I would like to
ask you to direct the discussion to another point.
There are so many programs out
there and some features may overlap.
Some programs perform specific functions that
no other
program offers.
For example, Devonthink has artificial
intelligence.
Without this artificial intelligence, DEVONthink would lose its
real value.

Back to my three main questions.
1 What are the core functions of Zoot,
which you can not cope with the other programs.
2 What do you think is unique about
Zoot?
3 What do you think is still missing in Zoot?

Three things that I find Zoot fantastic for are:

1. Archiving Outlook email - I am on a corporate exchange server with limited storage space (abount 400MB), so once or twice a month I need to archive or I can't send or receive email on that account. With Zoot, I can synch email from any folders I choose and then archive to Outlook. this gives me a second backup in case the .pst files crash (has happend to me before), and it also gives me an extremely rich search capability where I can dump all the email into one place and then sort it on the fly with smart folders.

2. The Safe - this is a great tool for saving account passwords (used to do this in Evernote before it went totally into the cloud - still use Evernote, but not for that purpose. BTW - export from Evernote to Zoot works pretty well.

3. Feeds - coupled with smart folders, this is the best Feed consolidator I've ever used.

I still haven't figured out how to use the Outliner in Zoot...