Hi guys,

I am the inventor of Cyborganize, a text-based info management and productivity system.

It is similar in scope to GTD, but based or radically different principles.

You guys are my target audience, and I'd appreciate it if you'd take a glance.

If the page doesn't hit you square between the eyes right away... well, then I haven't done my job.

Some user quotes:

"Cyborganize is a system for real people."

"You could have the kernel of something bigger than Facebook or Twitter there."

"It?s funny but it?s just the thing I?ve been looking for, without knowing it."

Here's the link: www.cyborganize.org

Thanks,
JB

JB,

:-) There's a fine line between marketing and pomposity, in my eyes - I normally wouldn't hang around for long on a site that blew it's own trumpet quite that much!

I'm afraid I'm one of the "huh?" group. Too much text, too much time required to work out what you're doing and why, and no structure to help people understand (and the graphic doesn't help - not me, anyway).

I'm probably not the type you're aiming for, because I reckon I'm better organised even that the likes of David Allen, but you definitely need a two-minute overview somewhere to make it clear what you're advocating (without the BS).

Graham

PS: bigger than Facebook or Twitter??? In these cases I don't think size and quality can be equated ;-)

Hi there, JB,

At first I thought Graham was being a little rough on you, but having visited the website: phew! What a load of, well, "interesting" claims! Apart from anything else, I don't like enthusiastic jargon which isn't immediately defined (or linked to a definition): what on earth do you mean by "lossless" and "frictionless" - and where do I find out? If you think I'm going to wade through reams of web pages just to find out, you're sadly mistaken! So link those two to something resembling a definition for starters. Second, the phrase "Don't be Overwhelmed" is unfortunately ambiguous: do you mean "don't be overwhelmed by the volumes of data/info you're having to process every day" or (and this is the meaning which suggests itself due to the juxtaposition of other elements like "fastest way to start using", "workflow" etc.) do you mean "Don't be Overwhelmed by Cyberorganize? For me as an info junkie, that's an immediate turn-off. As Graham and others have remarked elsewhere on this forum, an info management system that has a steep learning curve is - more or less axiomatically - a poorly designed one. And yet everything on your introductory page suggests that Cyberorganize is complex and requires first, that users should understand a number of basic premises (your particular take on left-brain/right-brain interaction) and second, that they should make those premises the basis for managing their information. Not what I would call intuitive! Finally, the lack of clarity as far as the modular structure is concerned (I mean: BrainStormWFO - WTF?) does not encourage further exploration, especially since it takes quite a while to find any actual essential details in the explanatory pages. The graphic is pretty, but essentially useless.

I don't mean to sound negative - but appreciate that I do. It could be absolutely amazing! But when you develop a system that promises to help people to clarify their own thoughts (in a lossless, frictionless way!), it is vital that your own exposition should be as clear, limpid and frictionless as possible. At present your website is merely confusing and discourages in-depth exploration. Sort that out, and you could have something that's genuinely worthwhile. I look forward to exploring it (eventually).

Best regards,
Bill

It took me a little while to figure this out, but the Cyborganize system is based on the use of of BrainStormWFO, which is discussed here:

http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/2794

Eventually I worked that out, by which time all interest in checking out BrainStorm WFO had deserted me, especially since NoteLiner seems to do all the same things (more or less) for free... Basically BrainStorm is a single-pane outliner, apparently with cross-referencing (the latter a nice idea, but by no means unique). Have I missed something?

BTW, if you want a really fast single-pane outliner with tagging and a good search function, try ThinkBook on the iPad (sorry, CarbonFin Outliner, I'm deserting you!). Of course you'll need an iPad!

;o)
Bill

I will try the other tools mentioned. Are you sure it duplicates BrainStormWFO's affordance?

I'm in a mad rush right now because I've realized the page desperately needs an intro video. I thought everything was clear but quite evidently it's not. So I'll have to respond in detail to this later.

As far as the "bigger than facebook etc" claim, that wasn't made by me, I'm just quoting an email correspondent.

Yes it is lossless and frictionless. How and why is explained deeper in. Yes I do believe it does what I say it does.

No I don't expect people to wade through reams of text when they don't even know what's going on. Time to record a video...

Sounds good! It's awaited with interest...

Cheers,
Bill

JB,

I think you need to decide if you're selling software or propagating a new information management system. I thought initially it was the latter, but all I could really find on your page was information about BrainStormWFO. If you want to try to do both, you need to be clearer and separate these goals on the site better.

I'm aware that you didn't make the bigger than Facebook/Twitter claim, but if somebody said to me that an outliner software (which won't need to be used by 750 million users) was comparable to a social media site (how and why they should be comparable I don't know), I would have assumed that somebody was taking the piss, and would certainly never have written it on my site or in any marketing material!

I'm aware that some of what you wrote might come over better in the USA, but as the site can be viewed from anywhere it needs to be toned down - from my side of the Atlantic it just seems brash.

I am being negative - sorry about that - but if you promise a revolution and just deliver a simple (though no doubt worthy) single pane outliner software, people are apt to become miffed. But I also appreciate that your bravery in opening yourself up for our broadsides, so you get brownie points for that!

Cheers!

Graham

JB,

FWIW, I would never watch a video to learn about software. I suspect that a lot of users are like me: we will give your page approximately 30 seconds to convince us the software is worthwhile, otherwise we'll move on to something else.

A video longer than 30 seconds, therefore, will never get watched by many of us. Additionally, if the video requires sound, nobody is going to look at it during work. I don't even have speakers on my computer.

Take a look at Evernote's page for an example of good marketing. They've convinced millions of users to download their software, and they do it, in part by simply explaining the benefits - what you will get out of it if you use the software. http://www.evernote.com/about/learn_more/

Note that they're not talking about philosophy. They're not explaining how the UI works - they don't even have a screenshot! They're not focusing on HOW the software works. They're saying what you can DO with the software, and they give a number of concrete examples (clip a webpage of a recipe, file it, and find it fast later). Its super simple, and it convinces people in 30 seconds.

While I used to agree about not watching video, and still would not at work, I am more inclined to do so if it is short, AND, if the rest of the information on the web site has me hooked. One thing I do fine very useful, is screenshots. Good screen shots help me to quickly see if a program "makes sense" in my mind. I cannot comment personally on your web site, however, because it is being blocked by my employer.

Good luck,

--Ken

I've just posted a 5-minute video that walks you through the unified Cyborganize graphic.

Basically, the magic is in the interplay between the scratch sessions, the snippet loop, and the longform loop.

Graham:

I am not pompous in person... for what it's worth.

It's just the nature of the product. Think about the ambition and scope of comprehensive info management systems like GTD, or what the creator of Supermemo attempted to accomplish. In this space, the goals we are attempting to realize are grandiose. If any system achieves those goals, it will deserve the superlatives I've used to describe Cyborganize. The relevant question is, does Cyborganize achieves what it aims at? If it does, then there's no bragging, just a straightforward description.

I am not claiming to be a genius... just a very persistent person forced by circumstances to focus on a single issue for a very long time, resulting in a very large number of costly failures and one success.

If you're willing to watch the 5 minute video, I think you'll be drawn in. If not, then wait for more social proof before investing your time.

I am definitely aiming at hyper organized people... they're the ones who feel the strongest need for eliminating mental fragmentation.

The "facebook or twitter" quote was from a person who views social networks as inherently useless, which is clear if you read the full quote. It's being taken the wrong way... he has a wry sense of humor.

Dana:

Lossless refers to the chronological tapes which preserve a permanent record of all info captured.

Frictionless refers to the multiple methods by which Cyborganize prevents you from ever feeling "stuck".

The links are in the "recommended reading order" section.

As for "don't get overwhelmed," I mean both. Cyborganize is incredibly simple and easy to use, which is why it can be represented in a single sparse graphic. However, if you only implement part of it, you are very likely to be susceptible to overhead creep, because you will be over-relying on certain portions. Cyborganize's elements work together to reduce workload. The "don't get overwhelmed" article shows you how to start with the piece that is least dependent on the others - tasks.

Cyborganize does have a steep learning curve right now, just as GTD did when it was completely unfamiliar to everyone. That's because it's radically different.

If you want to skip straight to the core workflow, it's clearly marked under "Core Workflow".

The website has just been put together and I expect to continue to improve it.

Noteliner is not a substitute for BrainStormWFO. Noteliner is a standard outliner. BrainStormWFO has several unique design features that render it irreplaceable for Cyborganize. E.g., forced focus and mark sorting.

Graham#2:

Only 3 of 18 of my posts are about BrainStormWFO. The focus is the information system. Maybe you missed the recommended reading order section?

dan:

Evernote is selling a much simpler product. A better comparison would be GTD.

And when I actually describe what it does, apparently it sounds like pompous bragging!

Anyway...

You guys are tough, but I appreciate the feedback!

All I'm looking for is a few good first users. Two or three people are interested so far, that I know about. Interesting times ahead...

OK, GTD.

First, GTD is a book, not a software product. Maybe that's the issue -- if your goal is to write a book, then a website is not the place to do it. Maybe a blog would be better?

But if we're talking about GTD software then what I said about marketing on your website still applies. You have to list concrete examples of what people get get out of your software

For example, here are 3 things a user can get out of GTD software, stated simply:

1. keep your email inbox cleaned out
2. know what task to do next
3. make sure no tasks fall through the cracks.

A website listing those 3 features would sell a ton of software. That's why GTD software is popular. If you can list 3 concrete benefits like that, in that many words or less (using active verbs), you can get people to download your software. Here's an example of GTD software (recommended by David Allen) that is marketed like this - in fact the main focus of the webpage is 6 active verbs, under which is lists concrete examples of what users can DO with the software (e.g. "Quickly and easily record all your miscellaneous to-dos and store items in your inbox until you're ready to process and organize them."): http://www.omnigroup.com/products/omnifocus/features/

In contrast, looking at your website now, I don't see even one user benefit. There is a section called "benefits" but it doesn't explain any concrete benefits: "cyberorganize is a chaos engine" does not sound like a benefit to me. "A general solution to procrastination and laziness" is not concrete and is frankly unbelievable unless you're selling meth. :)

Like others, I'm not trying to be hypercritical: I actually want to know what your software is useful for -- so I'm challenging you to produce 3 statements like the ones above.

I do like the Omnifocus home page, that's a good example.

However, it's not a software product... it's more like a GTD book, with certain specific software requirements.

It will eventually turn into a book, this is just my way of releasing it to the public early.

Here are my three benefit statements:

1. Eliminate mental fragmentation and resistance
2. Discover your true identity and mentally evolve
3. Execute optimally

Sounds hokey but that's exactly what Cyborganize was designed to do.


"?A general solution to procrastination and laziness? is not concrete and is frankly unbelievable unless you?re selling meth. :)"

That's my problem... nobody would believe my benefits.

Believe me, I WISH I were selling something like "clear your inbox" or "capture anywhere."

And I'm giving it away free!

I see the merits of BrainStorm (forced focus and quick rearranging) and keeping things segmented based on source (internal/external) and level of polish or completeness. But perhaps the system is too abstract and seemingly convoluted (there is a lot of copying and pasting, and things live in multiple places) to be immediately useful to someone first reading about it - it would be nice to see some specific examples or scenarios like taking an incoming client email that contains 10 tasks of varying complexity and timeframes and processing that through the system. The system seems rather introspective, which is not bad - but work is often full of competing, external demands.

Also, BrainStorm does have unique affordances, but I get a little lost on the need for two blogs and a wiki... couldn't these just be three folders of text files, for example?

Do you use namesakes at all? It seems like that might be a way to preserve the chronological order within BrainStorm while still sorting the same entries conceptually in another part of the model.

Anyway, it's always interesting to read about very detailed workflows.

Chris

JBfromBrainStormWFO wrote:

...
Here are my three benefit statements:

1. Eliminate mental fragmentation and resistance
2. Discover your true identity and mentally evolve
3. Execute optimally

Sounds hokey but that's exactly what Cyborganize was
designed to do.

----------------------------------------------------
Gee, this sounds very much like what Neil Larson says about his MaxThink.

-cassius

Whoah... I just checked out Maxthink. Last time I looked at it I never got past the ridiculous intro video. This time I successfully navigated to the features demo vid.

Maxthink is the only program I've ever seen that could substitute for BrainStormWFO in Cyborganize. It has the same mark sorting capacity.

It looks a great deal more complicated than BrainStormWFO, and I'm not sure how well it scales, but I certainly like the perpetual undo function. It could also be more mature and stable, I'm not sure. The display is more cluttered but to compensate you need fewer keystrokes since marks are always present. Anyway, an impressive program.

Aha - I think I just found its fatal flaw. Maxthink only has one pane. In BrainStormWFO I'm almost always working with two panes. Whew, I guess we can keep the "world's fastest outliner" title, although just by a hair.

====
Cassius wrote: "Gee, this sounds very much like what Neil Larson says about his MaxThink."

Yes, we are all trying to accomplish the same goals in this space. MaxThink is similar in scope and function to BrainStormWFO. Everything that MaxThink can do falls under the Snippet Loop, which is just 1/3 of Cyborganize's total capabilities.

====
Chris Murtland wrote: "I see the merits of BrainStorm (forced focus and quick rearranging) and keeping things segmented based on source (internal/external) and level of polish or completeness. "

Awesome!

"there is a lot of copying and pasting, and things live in multiple places"

Really it's not. I spend vastly less time organizing with Cyborganize than with any of my previous systems. It's all automatic, no thinking involved, so it goes very fast. And it's batchable.

As for things living in multiple places, they do, but in different forms, each providing a unique affordance. You won't feel you're duplicating effort. And you won't feel like you don't know which location is canonical. Depending on your purpose, it will be obvious where to look.

"it would be nice to see some specific examples or scenarios like taking an incoming client email that contains 10 tasks of varying complexity and timeframes and processing that through the system."

In GTD there would be just one way of doing this. In Cyborganize, you have a lot of freedom. The major determinants are the complexity involved and whether you forget key information.

Here's how I'd personally handle that email:
1. Read it in Gmail, if it's not urgent star it, make an actionable to come back to it in some timeframe
2. After sorting my actionables, and executing until I come to the entry again, begin working on the email
3. Copy the email over into a scratch file, and also into "quotes" if necessary.
4. Digest the email line by line in the scratch file. Create notes and actionables. Execute some of them on the spot.
5. Create more scratch files if necessary as I continue to work, gaining the benefits of a contiguous work session.
6. Eventually I'll hit stopping points or lose interest.
5. If nothing else is urgent, let the scratch files sit until I batch process them.
6. When they're batch processed, their actionables will go back into the Snippet Loop, and some of the scratch files may also be copied into the T3 layer for permanent preservation.

As far as time and deadlines, you'll need a calendar app, or perhaps even a full GTD or project management app, if your work involves complex inflexible time and resource constraints. That's fine. These tools will not become overloaded because you will use them only for what they do best.

If you need to set a number of deadlines for yourself, I would set the urgent ones at #1, and the rest somewhere between #2 - #4.

The relevant point is that deadlines and constraints evolve as our execution and priority trees evolve. So Cyborganize focuses on flexibility and dynamism, whereas traditional scheduling and resource management apps overwhelm you in a wealth of concrete individual settings that must be modified every time your paradigm shifts.

"The system seems rather introspective, which is not bad - but work is often full of competing, external demands."

Actually no, Cyborganize achieves self-knowledge and personal growth WITHOUT spending time on introspection. GTD is an introspective system because it forces you to do reviews, pay attention to completed tasks, etc. This is unnatural because our mammalian minds always want to move forward. Cyborganize just permits you to continually clear your mind, and helps the different mental modes to talk with each other, and helps to surface your true opinions and priorities, all of which naturally leads to the benefits above.

"I get a little lost on the need for two blogs and a wiki? couldn?t these just be three folders of text files, for example?"

No it couldn't. You need to have conveniently searchable, editable, categorizable, date-stamped and readable T3, T2 and T1 CMS's.

You COULD use Evernote for your T3 or T2 blogs, as long as you kept them separate from your chron tapes and each other. But I think Wordpress is the best solution. It's very extensible and open and user-friendly in all senses.

"Do you use namesakes at all?"

No I do not. Web interlinking violates the focus principle of the outline. And namesakes are a poor implementation of web interlinking. If I wanted that, I'd use TheBrain.

"It seems like that might be a way to preserve the chronological order within BrainStorm while still sorting the same entries conceptually in another part of the model."

Stay away from the dark side, young Jedi! You cannot do this in the Snippet Loop. To try will drive you mad. Everything there is being constantly rewritten and rearranged... datestamping is hopeless.

Chris, thanks for your excellent questions. You are clearly understanding what I'm talking about and grappling with the why's and wherefores. Some of your ideas (chronological tracking using namesakes) are stuff I've tried and discarded. You are not far from Cyborganize! I'm thinking about how to incorporate your questions into a new post.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Basically BrainStorm is a single-pane outliner, apparently
with cross-referencing (the latter a nice idea, but by no means unique). Have I missed
something?

Yes. I've been using Brainstorm for many years and I can tell you that it is unique. For example, cross-referencing happens automatically, at least in English; just type an identical entry and it will be recognised as a 'namesake' (clone). Thereon you'll be able to navigate 'sideways' (left-right arrow) along its various occurences.

There are other special and interesting aspects to Brainstorm, some of which are actually related to its limitations (you always work on one level, with the level above as a heading). Brainstorm has been discussed in this forum very much (its roots go back to the 80s) so I won't go further into it here.

@JB
I haven't yet had the time to study Cyborganize, though I found its 'totally integrated' approach interesting. I have two questions however:

- How is Cyborganize tied to Brainstorm in terms of marketing? Is it as a kind of cross-promotion? Will people who purchase the software get a (teaser) free webinar on Cyborganize and vice-versa?

- Are there plans for Brainstorm development? I believe that, useful as it may be, the program has currently quite a few quirks that reduce its appeal to contemporary software buyers, e.g. its read-only aerial view.

JB,

If anything that has an inherent use is bigger than Facebook (which, I agree, is next to pointless), it's rather a barbed compliment! But I'll leave that ...

To me at least, anybody who advocates a task and time management system is in danger of coming across as pompous (Dave Allen, Michael Linenberger and co. included) because they assume that everybody works the way they do, and that because it works for them it works for everybody. I am not a fan of Dave Allen, Michael Linenberger or their systems. There is no advantage in their systems for me, and I don't see any in yours. I'm sure you're not deliberately pompous, but in one of your posts, for example, you say your system "radically different". I can't see anything in it that people aren't already doing, so it just appears to be hyperbole to me, which immediately raises my hackles. Dave Allen etc. are the same and get short shrift from me in my reviews of their books.

Talking of books, instead of having 9 or whatever web sections to describe what your system does, how about a properly structured (e-)book so that we don't have to peck around trying to work out what you're trying to tell us?

It might be wonderful for some people, but not for me.

In opposition to some of the other posters, I do appreciate (short!) videos and would never download software that didn't at least include screen dumps on the site.

Sorry, BrainStormWFO just isn't something I need - I don't have that mental fragmentation issue that it seems to have been created for.

Graham

Graham: Feel free to pay no further mind, then. I'm not interested in converting people who don't want to be convinced. And I note this is the first instance of the "This was already obvious" response.

Alexander: I approached BrainStormWFO's new owner some time ago about redoing their marketing efforts. So I'm now involved. That was after I'd developed Cyborganize. Cyborganize itself is free. And it seems one can limp along using MaxThink instead of BrainStormWFO, if one likes. So BrainStormWFO is not a necessary part of Cyborganize.

Yes there are plans for BrainStormWFO's development... they are still being kept under wraps by the new owner for the time being.

JB,

Like you said earlier, this is a tough crowd. It is nice of you to offer your system free, especially since you also promote Brainstorm, software that I admire. I took a quick look at your site when you first posted. It wasn't obvious to me that you were talking about a system and not an additional piece of software, and I didn't understand it was free until reading your most recent post.

I DO like videos, finding them a good way to learn (see the PersonalBrain web site for the best video collection around). In fact, I've viewed a couple of your videos on the Brainstorm WFO site. I think they help explain what your system is and will probably be useful for others, but you should keep them short -- cover the same material, just in shorter chunks, starting with the basics.

Good luck.

Steve Z.

Thanks Steve. Cyborganize's presentation still has a long way to go, and I'll be acting on all the valuable feedback I've received here.

I think I've made major progress in a short time though... it used to be totally incomprehensible to nearly everyone. Now I can proudly replace "totally" with "mostly".

I have written a new post directly comparing GTD to Cyborganize. It explains what concepts I've borrowed, and where I've differed and why.

This might be a less confusing way to introduce Cyborganize. It immediately establishes what category Cyborganize fits into.

Perhaps this will help people understand more easily the reasons for various design features. The entire system could be seen as a revolt from GTD. I borrow many GTD concepts, and my explanations tend to assume familiarity with GTD.

Basically, my thesis is that GTD was designed for the pen and paper era, whereas Cyborganize was designed from the ground up to take advantage of computer text processing power. And therefore Cyborganize is the next generation productivity workflow.

Here's the link: http://www.cyborganize.org/got-gtd-blues-join-the-digital-age-with-cyborganize/

The title is "Is GTD Too Much Work? Join the Digital Age with Cyborganize"

Whether GTD designed for pen and paper or not, I think the point is that it has lended itself to digital use quite readily - and there's any number of good applications for this - see the thread on Nozbe - http://www.nozbe.com/a-A3F240E3 - which I began this week.

I do not want to prejudge your system because I realize it is in the formative stages and that you are seeking new ways to describe it. However I see some issues which may be more methodological than a reflection of the system itself:
1. Given the early stage of your system I think it unfortunate that you've made such great claims for it - the claims may over time prove themselves to be warranted, but in making them now you are in a sense setting yourself up for responses in the light of the claims.
2. The right and left brain analogy - I'm not sure it fits all that well, and like the claims for the system, may set you up.
3. You tie your system to one particular software tool - this may be limiting your potential market, and at this time limiting the number of people who will join you as the "beta" testers of your system. While Brainstorm is a very capable piece of software, it is not one which all of us feel comfortable with. As well as developing using Brainstorm, you might find the free program Noteliner an alternative - there could be ways to use its table tool to create what you want, or in other software such as MyInfo the cloning capabilities & columns. Just a thought.

I'll continue to follow your progress with interest.

Daly