I started a new, substantial writing project this week, and decided to try the first draft in Scrivener for Windows.

Before this, I never understood what the advantage of Scrivener was over MS Word for drafting -- but so many people think it's useful that I thought I'd see for myself. I still can't articulate exactly what makes it better than using Word, but there is something about it. Maybe it's the fact that you work on isolated sections of text, rather than inserting text into a whole document.

Unfortunately, Scrivener for Windows has some flaws that make it very hard to use. Common paragraph styles are totally missing or require multiple menu items to apply (bullets, numbering, block text quotes). Heading styles are totally missing. Cut and paste from Word is hit-or-miss and sometimes yields bizarre results. Also - and I'd like to know if this is the same in Scrivener on Mac - when you "compile" into a full document, you lose the outline levels from the binder - everything ends up flat and headings are indistinguishable from sub-headings.

Overall, I find myself spending about 1/4 of my time formatting, instead of writing. And after I compile, I expect to spend another couple of hours re-formatting.

So now I am at the point where I see the value of Scrivener, but I want something that actually works -- on Windows. Any suggestions?

So now I am at the point where
I see the value of Scrivener, but I want something that actually works -- on Windows.
Any suggestions?

I am happy to recommend Whizfolders Organizer, where you can do some similar things. However, I am also looking forward to a working Windows version of Scrivener. I am also new to it and I only had a couple of occasions to play with it. I did find the outlining features very clunky (as I mentioned it in a previous post), and so if organising topics in a hierarchical structure is similarly important to you, I think Whizfolders is superior on that.

One feature on Scrivener that had emerged as a killer feature for me however is the ability to work on the document in full screen, where you can block out the rest of the desktop and all distractions whatsoever (by making it black). I've been dreaming about something like that for years (basically to simulate a typewriter environment, by just having the keyboard and a white piece of paper in front of you, and the words that are on that paper). This feature is absolutely brilliant. I wonder if any other writer's software can do that. Unfortunately that's where Whizfolders falls down, as the whole interface is overcrowded with various icons and functions (which are useful but I just wish I could switch to a blank paper at some point).

So if Scrivener could (1) make it easier to manipulate the topic and folder hierarchy (dragging and dropping or indenting/out-denting and moving up and down), (2) could have an EndNote add-on for academic referencing (rather then the current workaround that is needed to do what takes just one click in Word), and (3) work with Dragon Naturallyspeaking (which I haven't had a chance to try that), then Scrivener would be an absolute winner for me.

If anyone out there is aware of any other software which can do this typewriter simulation (white paper, black background, and absolutely nothing else on the screen), I would be very interested in and grateful to find out about.

So now I am at the point where
I see the value of Scrivener, but I want something that actually works -- on Windows.
Any suggestions?

Word add-in called Writing Outliner:
http://writingoutliner.com/
It is at quite early stage of development, but the developer is very friendly, responsive and engaged in adding new features.

Dr Andus wrote:

If anyone out there is aware of any other software which
can do this typewriter simulation (white paper, black background, and absolutely
nothing else on the screen), I would be very interested in and grateful to find out
about.

Check out
Q10 http://www.baara.com/q10/ (also mentioned in another thread)
and WriteMonkey http://www.writemonkey.com/

In all fairness, Scrivener for Windows is still in beta. The newest version (beta 5) was posted today. They are also keeping a comprehensive of bugs and missing features at . As others have mentioned, the developers intend eventually to bring the Win version up to the Mac version (currently 2.0), but the first non-beta Win release will be 1.1, in February, with features corresponding to the Mac version 1.1. I am definitely keeping my eye on this one!
Cheers,
David

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Check out
Q10 http://www.baara.com/q10/ (also mentioned in another
thread)
and WriteMonkey http://www.writemonkey.com/

Alexander, thanks very much for these, they are both great. Unfortunately I couldn't install Q10 on Windows 7, but runs fine on XP.

doctorandus

DrAndus

Early last month I did an informal test of Scrivner with Dragon Naturally Speaking -- and the text input fields are not what Dragon considers normal. I believe that was not true of the corkboard notes field -- that one, oddly, reporting back as normal according to Dragon.

I haven't messed with subsequent releases although I would expect that characteristic is already pretty much set in programming stone.

Having said that, it is true that Dragon 11 is usually dead-on accurate, so correction hassles will be minimal.

Happy New Year to all!

MsJulie wrote:

I haven't messed with subsequent releases although I
would expect that characteristic is already pretty much set in programming
stone.

That could be because Scrivener doesn't use the native Windows interface but is built on top of QT GUI framework (I believe).
Try to contact the developer who is highly responsive.

For context, here's another interesting tool providing an environment for writing without distractions; Textroom is free and works on Windows, Mac and Linux.

See here http://code.google.com/p/textroom/ and here http://textroom.sourceforge.net/


Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Check out
Q10 http://www.baara.com/q10/ (also mentioned in another
thread)
and WriteMonkey http://www.writemonkey.com/

Dr Andus wrote:

>If anyone out there is aware of any other software which
>can do this
typewriter simulation (white paper, black background, and absolutely
>nothing
else on the screen), I would be very interested in and grateful to find out
>about.

Alexander,
TextRoom is a good find. I've been playing with it this afternoon and it's a keeper. Thank you. gB

GeorgeB wrote:

Alexander,
TextRoom is a good find. I've been playing with it this afternoon and it's
a keeper. Thank you. gB

Textroom does look nice, but it crashed a couple of times on Windows 7 when I tried to use the flowchart feature (the buttons for which also didn't show, BTW), without saving the text. So that's not sufficiently stable for my liking. I'm still looking forward to the full-screen feature of Scriveners Windows.

My latest find in my quest for minimalist writing interfaces is iA Writer on iPad: http://www.informationarchitects.jp/en/writer-for-ipad/ You probably need a wireless keyboard to make full use of it, however, it's the closest I could get to the experience of writing on an old style portable typewriter. There is nothing to distract you. The font is beautiful, and there is a nifty feature where you can make it focus on 3 lines only and grey out the rest of the text. It creates .txt files and allows you to back it up on Dropbox or email it out. No formatting or any other distractions. Just like a typewriter. Okay, the iPad screen (with an external keyboard) would only allow you to display one or two paragraphs at a time, however, it can also be an advantage, as it forces you to focus on the paragraphs you are actually writing.

Apparently they are working on an iA Writer for desktop as well, but unfortunately only for the Mac at the moment. I'd love to have this on Windows.

Apparently they are working on an iA Writer for desktop as well, but
unfortunately only for the Mac at the moment. I'd love to have this on Windows.

Have you tried Writemonkey? http://writemonkey.com/

JohnK wrote:

Have you tried
Writemonkey? http://writemonkey.com/

Yeah, Writemonkey is almost there. However, I wish I could block out the rest of the screen around the paper by making it black, like you can do in the full-screen mode in Scriveners. Scriveners is almost perfect in that regard, except I wish they would lose the scroll-bar, which kind of ruins the illusion that it's like typing on paper.

Full-screen mode in Writemonkey does block out the whole screen. That was the developer's main purpose in creating Writemonkey (it is more or less a clone of Writeroom - http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom

Hi, I'm Paulo, Brazilian writer and illustrator, long time lurker. I just had to leave my two cents:

Scriveners is almost perfect in that regard, except I wish they would
lose the scroll-bar, which kind of ruins the illusion that it's like typing on paper.

In the latest beta (020) of Scrivener the full screen scroll bar fades away after a couple of seconds.

I'm in no way associated with the product, so let me say I don't think there's a real alternative to Scrivener. Scrivener is openly a writing tool, not a formatting one. Writemonkey (another excellent tool) doesn't offer any formatting either, and this is advertised (and should be understood) as a feature, not a bug. The whole concept is using Scrivener to write the bulk of the manuscript and do the formatting elsewhere, when it's finished. This may not be ideal solution to those who are used to "build" their text around the formatting styles with which the final text will be presented -- but to some of us the "just write in chunks, do the formatting when it's finished" thing is definitely appealing.

That said, each new beta of Scrivener comes more polished. IMO anyone interested in writing should give it a try.

Also here: http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/03/removing-the-stigma-from-writing-software/72323/

Cheers!

-----
Paulo Brabo
http://www.e- brabo.com
http://www.baciadasalmas.com

JohnK wrote:

Full-screen mode in Writemonkey does block out the whole screen. That was the
developer's main purpose in creating Writemonkey (it is more or less a clone of
Writeroom - http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom

It's a very minor point but I was referring to the actual size of the writing area, vs. the rest of the screen. So if you have a wide-screen monitor, with Scrivener you can just create a white e.g. A4 size (in portrait) writing area, with the rest of the screen blocked out in black. As far as I know, Writemonkey can't do that. The entire wide-screen would be the same colour as the writing area. I just find that that Scrivener feature helps me focus on the page and the writing (and reduces glare from a massive white screen - I know you can choose other background colours in Writemonkey, but I like white).

Paolo,

I found your post interesting because I think it probably explains where some of my issues with using "writing software" like Scrivener is coming from. I think maybe these programs are focused on fiction or other types of writing that do not involve many cites or quotes, and rarely have multiple levels of headings for each section. In contrast, legal writing is all about cites and quotes and always involves multiple heading levels. You say:


The whole concept is using Scrivener to write the bulk of the manuscript and do the formatting elsewhere, when it?s finished. This may not be ideal solution to those who are used to ?build? their text around the formatting styles with which the final text will be presented?but to some of us the ?just write in chunks, do the formatting when it?s finished? thing is definitely appealing.


Similarly, in the article you linked to, the Scrivener developer says:


while textual content is always the author's concern, the final presentation is often someone else's -- and even if the author is self-publishing or writing a thesis that has to be presented in a particular way, the writing process rarely benefits from worrying about typesetting options simultaneously with trying to choose the right words.

I am a person who prefers to "write in chunks." But when you write with lots of citations, you need block quotes inside your "chunks." And it is a huge hassle to re-format citations at the end of a project, so you need to be able to add footnotes and cites with italics to your "chunks." And as you are organizing "chunks" into the final order, you need to be able to specify what level of heading each section will get.

It would be nice if there was software for those of us who like to write in "chunks" but who cannot have meaningful "chunks" without including block quotes, footnotes, and italics in our "chunks." It would also be nice to have support for multiple levels of headings during output. WritingOutliner seems to come the closest so far.

dan7000 wrote:

It would be nice if there
was software for those of us who like to write in "chunks" but who cannot have
meaningful "chunks" without including block quotes, footnotes, and italics in our
"chunks." It would also be nice to have support for multiple levels of headings during
output. WritingOutliner seems to come the closest so far.

If your writing is not so structured as that supported by WritingOutliner, e.g. during initial research perhaps, you might want to try Connected Text, which apparently has good support for footnotes; see http://www.connectedtext.com/changelog.html

As I don't use the program, I'm not sure how these are exported though.

Writing Outliner was mentioned already, maybe this one wasn't:
StoryBox from http://www.storyboxsoftware.com/

Thomas.

In which respect is Storybox superior to Scrivener for Windows (apart from the fact that ScrivWin is still in beta)? At first look, I couldn't find anything that is not in Scrivener.

Franz

While it is clear that the developer of StoryBox was "inspired" by Scrivener, one thing that he has done that Keith Blount (Scriv's developer) resisted, and that is making the application specifically for fiction. And I say thank goodness for Keith's restraint. I have quite understood the need so many developers have to cater to fiction writers, when 90% of all writing is non-fiction of some kind or another (okay, I pulled that number from out of thin air, but I believe it to be about right).*

*A quick Google search found a couple of items saying about the same thing -- which proves it!

In which respect is Storybox superior to Scrivener for Windows?

IMHO it's not superior in general but more of one of the alternatives if Scrivener is not a match for some reason, though I'm unable to articulate differences in favor of Storybox due to short time (and long ago) use of Scrivener.