Hello fellow outline fanatics,

I have been a daily user of PC Outline since the mid 1980's. There was a supposed "bug" in the software, which I have figured out and have devised a very simple "work-around" to. I will share it with anyone who responds. I am willing to provide support to anyone that asks regarding PC Outline (DOS version only). If anyone has a printed copy of the manual, I would be most interested in copying it!.

It is a great program and has withstood the test of time! My website is www.seattle-investigations.com. Send me an email at croninj@ix.netcom.com and I will respond.
All the best!

In reply to Jim Cronin, I've been a user of PC-Outline since it was a shareware program from BBO, and I still use the last version that was distributed as a companion program to WordStar. There never was a printed manual, Jim, the manual was an outline that automatically came up when you first opened the program. It showed you how to use the program, quite nicely. I've also used the second version of the program, written by the same author and finally distributed by Symantec, but I never liked it as well, it seemed to me to have too much in the way of added features that weren't needed.. And the less said about the windows version that BBO brought out after they'd moved to England, the better. By the way, I was a user on this site under the name charlie3f (back in '05), but I've no idea where the f came from.

CharlieMartin

An update to my previous post. ThereIS a full manual (not just the wimpy one that is included as a text file with the software). I have a copy and am willing to share it in PDF with anyone who requests it. I am still willing to provide support to anyone who has a question regarding the DOS version of PCO. It is a great program and I'm still using it every day!
Cheers.

Perhaps my memory is failing, but I recall that GrandView was written by the author of PC Outline. The author went on to other endeavors and never created a Windows version of GV. Someone else tried to create a Windows version, but couldn't get it to work well. Note: The underlying file structure of GV was pretty sophisticated (complex).

PCOutlne was the first outliner I ever used, loved it. Later on I switched to Grandview.

Here's a link where you can download it.

http://www.developer-resource.com/free-download/Text-Utilities/pco334zip/51607.html

I got an error message when I tried to run PCO.EXE directly, but I was able to run it under DOSBox 0.74. (That's the way I can run Grandview, too.) Don't know if there's a way to run these programs without DOSBox. I'm running Windows 7 64-bit.

jim

According, to this link, both were written by John Friend, although there were some legal disputes:

http://books.google.com/books?id=rDAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA21-IA16&lpg=PA21-IA16&dq=pc+outline+brown+bag&source=bl&ots=9LIUDd_K2t&sig=fTQsWOU2IL87b-u7yxlNM1mdAh8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T2HRUKuvK4ac2QWN5oG4Aw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA


Cassius wrote:

Perhaps my memory is failing, but I recall that GrandView was written by
the author of PC Outline. The author went on to other endeavors and
never created a Windows version of GV. Someone else tried to create a
Windows version, but couldn't get it to work well. Note: The
underlying file structure of GV was pretty sophisticated (complex).

Thanks gunars for John Friend's name. Age has caused my long-term memory to bog down. The memories are still there, but dragging them out sometimes takes hours.

Years ago, I actually spoke with John. I was hoping he could provide documentation on GrandView -- particularly on the file format. Unfortunately, he had just moved, was surrounded by boxes, and had no idea which box the documentation might be in. Also, as I said, he had moved on to other pursuits.
-----
gunars wrote:

According, to this link, both were written by John Friend, although
there were some legal disputes:

http://books.google.com/books?id=rDAEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA21-IA16&lpg=PA21-IA16&dq=pc+outline+brown+bag&source=bl&ots=9LIUDd_K2t&sig=fTQsWOU2IL87b-u7yxlNM1mdAh8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T2HRUKuvK4ac2QWN5oG4Aw&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBA

Ah, PC-Outline. My first outlining program. I loved this program. Simple, powerful and easy to use. It made all the outliners built into word processors look like crap. Recently I found I had a need for a simple outliner again so I am testing some out. But PC-Outline was certainly a useful tool in it's time.

I have been a PC Outline user since the Fall of 1986, IIRC. I still use it, but find that the DOS window in Win XP is less congenial than the native PCO screen. My version has all the files associated with the program, all work in the Win XP environment.

Moving my PCO to Win 7 is worrisome, as I've not used Win 7 to support any DOS programs, and am not sure how to install them or set up the shortcuts so they will work properly.
(I have found this link, but its a small part of the total process: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff756590.aspx )

I have not found another outliner that works at all well for me. If there are any that come close to the level of PCO, I would like to know what they are, so I could check them out.

Thanks

JimPivonka wrote:

I have not found another outliner that works at all well for me. If
there are any that come close to the level of PCO, I would like to know
what they are, so I could check them out.

I've never seen what PC Outline looks like (other than the screenshots here: http://www.danielsays.com/ss-gallery-dos-sw-pc-outline-334.html

My suggestion would be Outline 4D, for the following reasons:
http://drandus.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/outline-4d-for-drafting-and-reverse-outlining/

But there are decent free outliners out there as well, such as Noteliner, UV Outliner, The Guide etc. It depends on the particular use, i.e. whether it's for lists, short or long writing, whether it should be single-pane, or double-pane etc.

I can also recommend Bonsai: http://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/4193/0/natara-bonsai--still-a-top-notch-outliner

JimPivonka wrote:

I have been a PC Outline user since the Fall of 1986, IIRC. I still use
it, but find that the DOS window in Win XP is less congenial than the
native PCO screen. My version has all the files associated with the
program, all work in the Win XP environment.

Moving my PCO to Win 7 is worrisome, as I've not used Win 7 to support
any DOS programs, and am not sure how to install them or set up the
shortcuts so they will work properly.
(I have found this link, but its a small part of the total process:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/ff756590.aspx )

I have not found another outliner that works at all well for me. If
there are any that come close to the level of PCO, I would like to know
what they are, so I could check them out.

====================================

You might wish to try Inspiration, which is both a single-page outliner and an associated graphic creator. (You can convert an outline into a graphic or create a graphic, such as a mind map or org. chart, from scratch.)

Perhaps more importantly, you MAY be able to convert your PO Outline files into Inspiration files. PC Outline was the precursor of GrandView. I have reproduced below instructions for converting GV outlines to Inspiration outlines. This method MAY also work for PC Outline outlines.
-------------------
10/30/11:

The best approach (so far) that I've found for converting GV files to Inspiration is:

In the GV file, switch to "Outline View" and turn both "Columns" and "Category Display" OFF.
Expand EVERYTHING, then highlight EVERYTHING.
Choose the labeling style "Outline/Labels/Get Style/Indentation w/no labels."
Export the file to "PA -Paragraph" format. (File/Export/Paragraph)
Pick a file name and add the extension ".rtf" Note which folder the file is in.
Open the exported file in Inspiration. Inspiration will automatically convert the ".rtf" file to an Inspiration file.

To keep the GV file the way it was before you made these changes, do not close the file using the GrandView "Quit." Instead, with the GrandView window displayed, close it in Windows using one of the following:
Press the combination ALT-SPACEBAR, then choose CLOSE (works in XP, may work in others)
OR
Open the Windows Task Manager, choose GrandView and choose "End Task."

FOR SAFETY, do not delete your GrandView file. The conversion might have errors or might not have copied everything.

The one possible difficulty may be the limited size of each Inspiration note. I don't know what might happen if the conversion process encounters one that is too long.
----------------

www.inspiration.com

Jim,

As of Oct 2014, I'm still using PCO every day. I'm running Windows 8, and use DosBox 0.74. It runs with no significant problems. Sometimes when switching to other applications within Windows, the screen resolution will change, but giving the commmand "Alt Enter" returns the screen to normal size. Also, the LZRJET.cfg printer config file will not longer drive my HP laser printer. I end up exporting the PCO file to an ASCII file, and then opening the ASCII file in Word, and then I can print it as needed. I also notice some "computer gobbledygook" scrambled across the screen whenever I save changes to the program using the F10 configuration files. The program continues to work OK.

One "bug" that was identified many years ago was that the program tended to corrupt files over time. I figured out what caused this. The files got corrupted when the "Autosave" feature was enabled, and you attempted to switch windows (within PC Outline). The program would be in the middle of saving your data, and it would corrupt the data. The simple fix to this is to disable the Autosave feature, and save your files manually. Since I started doing that many years ago, I have yet to have a file crash on me.

I use PCO for creating/keeping up to date my investigative checklists. I'm a private investigator, and handle many different types of investigations for insurance companies and attorneys. I've built dozens of checklists over time and have keep them current. I also use it for creating timelines/chronologies, prioritizing pending leads, planning interviews and generally keeping track of pending leads in cases. I also love it for billing. It is so easy to document, summarize and organize chronologically the steps I've taken in investigations based on my memos, notes and reports. It ensures that I don't miss billable time, and fully justifies/speeds up my getting paid.


I've been using this since the mid-80's. PCO is my all time favorite program! I'm still willing to help anyone that is interested. I'd love to hear from other users. My website is: www.seattle-investigations.com . All my contact info is there. Cheers.

I used to use this. I'd like to use it again.

But I can't find the DOS download. And I always heard terrible things about the Windows version.

Is there an official link for the old file? I'm happy to pay for it, assuming there is still a programmer to pay.

if you google for pco334.zip, you'll find some links.

here's one:
http://www.skeptictank.org/treasure/GUTILS/PCO334.ZIP

your browser may throw up a warning but it's probably ok.

i tried it out again just for fun a while back. Extremely limited and dated. Grandview for DOS and Ecco for Windows are better choices IMO.

UV Outliner has doubtless been mentioned before but it is the closest thing to a modern, single-paned alternative to PC-Outline that I've found.

http://uvoutliner.com/

Further to this post. PC Outline is still alive and kicking on my computer every day.

(1) There is a full manual in PDF and I will share it with anyone that requests it.

(2) The program runs great in DOS Box!

(3) The printer drivers are obsolete, but you can get around this by sending your outline to a text file and then opening it in Word.

Jim Cronin (206) 992-1555
email: croninj@ix.netcom.com
www.seattle-investigations.com

Software is ephemeral. I hope somebody is still using the software I wrote in 30 years time! Some environmental modelling software I helped to write back in the 90s still seems to be going ( https://www.quintessa.org/software/AMBER/index.html ). I'm not sure there will be much of my code left in it by now though.

Here it is, six years after I first posted about PC Outline in 2013. I'm still using PC Outline every day, and still loving it. (My all-time favorite program!) As previously reported, I am willing to share a full copy of the software, and PDF of the online and printed manuals, as well as help anyone having technical issues. I still run PCO through DosBox, and send all files to a TXT file to be edited/printed in Word. Also, be sure to turn OFF the Auto Save feature. This will prevent your files from being corrupted. Ever since I did that, I have NEVER had a file go south on me since. I'd love to speak with the author or other PC Outline fanatics.

Jim Cronin
Seattle Insurance and Legal Investigations
(206) 992-1555
www.seattle-investigations.com

Jim, that's a generous offer. I no longer have an active Windows machine, but I do have one running Linux. DOSBOX should work. Where does one find the PC-Outline file these days?

I found and downloaded PCOutline here: https://www.pcorner.com/list/WORDP/PCO334.ZIP/INFO/ The file is pco334.zip.
PCOutline was my favorite outliner/PIM until I found eccopro.
Prior to PCOutline I used Kamas which I also found at the same website under the category WORDP. The file is kamas25.zip.

I would like to run some other DOS software through DosBox. Unfortunately, DosBox constantly runs with a high CPU load that drains my battery. I assume that it is caused by "busy waiting" of Dos software.

Did you find an acceptable config setting that balances CPU load and program execution?

Thanks for yout input!


JIM_CRONIN wrote:

I still run PCO through DosBox,
and send all files to a TXT file to be edited/printed in Word.
Jim Cronin
Seattle Insurance and Legal Investigations
(206) 992-1555
www.seattle-investigations.com

On an old Ubuntu box, I downloaded DOSBOX-X, then the program file for PCO (https://www.pcorner.com/ Then I unzipped the files, set up a new DOSBOX directory as c.

mount c /home/jlarue/Downloads/pco/

Then I went to the c drive (c:)

Typed pco, and I have PCoutline running in Linux!

There are some oddities. Movement by word is supposed to be Shift-left/right (this is using the F1 help key function). But it only works when I do the number key arrows. And some of the other choices don't seem to work at all. Function keys are necessary for promotion and demotion. Bottom line: it's ok. It would take a while of living in it to love it. And I would have to read the manual, I think, to grok it. Absent word count and printing, I'm not sure it's a good use of my time. But today, I have CRIMPed.

Author Robert J. Sawyer has just shared an archive of WordStar 7.0 complete with manuals and utilities to get it running under windows. The archive contains the version of PC-Outline that was distributed with WordStar, and a comment to run PCO.EXE using vDosPlus, which is also included in the archive. I tested it and it works. I was also playing around with GrandView for Windows, shared here earlier, which seems easier to use than PCO.

See https://sfwriter.com/ws7.htm for the complete archive and explanation of how to get the programs to work.

Very amusing! I was just reading an article that suggests well-known authors like Anne Rice and George R. R. Martin still use WordStar, for goodness’ sake!

Personally, I think WordPerfect was the best DOS-based word processor ever. I remember producing a 150-page software manual, complete with illustrations, box-outs and marginal notes, in WordPerfect 5.2 (on a Toshiba T1200 laptop) back in the day.

Cyganet wrote:

Author Robert J. Sawyer has just shared an archive of WordStar 7.0
complete with manuals and utilities to get it running under windows. The
archive contains the version of PC-Outline that was distributed with
WordStar, and a comment to run PCO.EXE using vDosPlus, which is also
included in the archive. I tested it and it works. I was also playing
around with GrandView for Windows, shared here earlier, which seems
easier to use than PCO.

See https://sfwriter.com/ws7.htm for the complete archive and
explanation of how to get the programs to work.

Reviving Wordstar looks like a fun way to spend a day! But in truth, I eventually moved on to VDE, a free Wordstar clone that was in my opinion even better and faster. https://sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor/Home/vde-files

These days, of course, I'm mostly use Dynalist and Google Docs, with a smattering of emacs/org-mode.