For example in UR, when you connect in one item to the other, you cannot describe the connection itself if any way
In TheBrain, one can at least give a name to the link (link type) connection the items

Here's the question:

Is there a PIM where link itself is some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

quant wrote:

For example in UR, when you connect in one item to the other, you cannot describe the
connection itself if any way
In TheBrain, one can at least give a name to the link (link type) connection the items

Here's the question: Is there a PIM where link itself is some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

----------
In Inspiration one can add text to a link in a "text box." AS I have never done it, I don't know what limits may apply. (See www.inspiration.com .)

-c

quant wrote:

Is there a PIM where link itself is some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

Great question. Links should be capable of being multi-tagged and filtered just like other items. For example, if you were working on a database of the American Songbook, with link types, you could filter the display to show only who collaborated with whom: songwriters, lyricists, producers. Instead of a free-form or delimited field for someone's place of residence, you'd connect that city by a defined link, and be able to see who else lives there. So you'd have more of the benefits of a relational database, without the design rigidity.

Jerome S.

NEO, the new version of TAO, allows exactly this. Links can be typed, bidirectional, unidirectional, or undirected, and you can assign an arbitrary amount of RTF text to describe each link.

http://d-lit.com/macosx/neo2/en/html_about.html

-- Chris

quant wrote:

Here's the question:

Is there a PIM where link itself
is some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

Thanks, I'll check it.

The best PIM I found so far in this respect is FlyingLogic, but the links alow only plain text and when the structure gets bigger it's messy, there is no way to change the layout. For example, when I click on certain item, I'd like to see the items linked to it, but if the structure is big one can see only links, zooming out doesn't really help, there is no way to restrict to view to see only the "closest items" :(

Chris Thompson wrote:

NEO, the new version of TAO, allows exactly this. Links can be typed, bidirectional,
unidirectional, or undirected, and you can assign an arbitrary amount of RTF text to
describe each link.

http://d-lit.com/macosx/neo2/en/html_about.html

--
Chris

quant wrote:
>Here's the question:
>
>Is there a PIM where link itself
>is
some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

mac :(

quant wrote:

Thanks, I'll check it.

The best PIM I found so far in this respect is FlyingLogic, but
the links alow only plain text and when the structure gets bigger it's messy, there is
no way to change the layout. For example, when I click on certain item, I'd like to see
the items linked to it, but if the structure is big one can see only links, zooming out
doesn't really help, there is no way to restrict to view to see only the "closest items"
:(

Chris Thompson wrote:
>NEO, the new version of TAO, allows exactly this. Links
can be typed, bidirectional,
>unidirectional, or undirected, and you can assign an
arbitrary amount of RTF text to
>describe each
link.
>
>http://d-lit.com/macosx/neo2/en/html_about.html
>
>--

>Chris
>
>quant wrote:
>>Here's the question:
>>
>>Is there a PIM where link
itself
>>is
>some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

Have you considered the Axon Idea Processor?
axon-research.com

$bill

Doesn't Personal Brain have this capability? And also, I believe, Tinderbox does.

yoojj wrote:

Doesn't Personal Brain have this capability? And also, I believe, Tinderbox does.

It's one of those things you'd think Tinderbox would have, but it doesn't. You're limited to one line of text without RTF when annotating links in Tinderbox.

-- Chris

Aibase http://www.aibase-cs.com/ can be described as a graphical object oriented database which is as flexible and powerful as it is idiosyncratic. I suggest you take a look at it if you make extensive use of graphics in your information notes.

quant wrote:

Is there a PIM where link itself
is some type of an item in which you can write (html/rft) ?

I had a look, created two items connected them and moved them around.
This is the result:
http://tinypic.com/r/293ayo9/4

How ridiculous is that?

There is no "optimize links" or sth like that, unless I missed the point?
I think any program that allows you to move items should have in version 0.0.0 function that optimizes link, i.e finding the closest path which connects two items such that it minizes overlap with other items (or themselves, which you'd think should not happen, but in this soft it is possible because the point where the link starts from item boundary is fixed).

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

Aibase http://www.aibase-cs.com/ can be described as a graphical object oriented
database which is as flexible and powerful as it is idiosyncratic. I suggest you take a
look at it if you make extensive use of graphics in your information notes.

quant
wrote:
>Is there a PIM where link itself
>is some type of an item in which you can write
(html/rft) ?

quant wrote:

How ridiculous is that?

I don't know if it is ridiculous, but I am certain that it is purposeful. Note my earlier phrase "as flexible and powerful as it is idiosyncratic".

A few years ago I spent a weekend ill in bed and took advantage of it by playing around with Aibase. I was genuinely impressed by what one can do with it and still am. I don't think there's anything else like it out there and, if I ever went back to electronic engineering, I'd definitely put it to heavy use.

That said, I decided that it wasn't what I needed for my everyday data, whose structure is usually much more conventional (tables, outlines and mind maps are sufficient for me).

In any case, you might want to check another user's opinion here: http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/1507

I really can't see any purpose in the link going all around the empty space, ... might be just me ... in any case thanks for suggestion.

Alexander Deliyannis wrote:

quant wrote:
>How ridiculous is that?

I don't know if it is ridiculous, but I am
certain that it is purposeful. Note my earlier phrase "as flexible and powerful as it
is idiosyncratic".

A few years ago I spent a weekend ill in bed and took advantage of
it by playing around with Aibase. I was genuinely impressed by what one can do with it
and still am. I don't think there's anything else like it out there and, if I ever went
back to electronic engineering, I'd definitely put it to heavy use.

That said, I
decided that it wasn't what I needed for my everyday data, whose structure is usually
much more conventional (tables, outlines and mind maps are sufficient for me).

In
any case, you might want to check another user's opinion here:
http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/1507

Zoot 6 is slowly taking over the funcitons of most of my other info toys...but its not great at visualization (neither is InfoQube's Map view). I ran across an interesting program today and remembered this disucssion - check out "Visual Understanding Environment"

http://vue.tufts.edu/index.cfm

This has a lot of hidden power and in fact among other things provides for annotation of links between nodes - to include the ability to attach/link them to files or URLs. I'm playing with it to see if there is a way to import my PersonalBrain info to it cleanly (looks possible via XML). I'm impressed at the quality given that its open source. will play with export capabilites too.

I haven't seen this discussed in this forum (though that does not mean it has not been mentioned)...Anybody used it before?

Zman
(a long time lurker and first time poster with a very long and chronic CRIMPer habit MAC/PC/LINUX)

vue seems interesting, but it doesn't support one/two features that I consider crucial.
1. It offers many ways to reorganize map, but none of them reorganize data so that items connected to the selected item are moved closer to it to see crearly the connection on the small map. Imagine a big map, and you connect two items that are far way. You can fade away rest of the map, but the link goes through the whole map and everything is too small.
2. no attempt to position items to minimize text/items overlap.

Zman wrote:

Zoot 6 is slowly taking over the funcitons of most of my other info toys...but its not
great at visualization (neither is InfoQube's Map view). I ran across an interesting
program today and remembered this disucssion - check out "Visual Understanding
Environment"

http://vue.tufts.edu/index.cfm

This has a lot of hidden power
and in fact among other things provides for annotation of links between nodes - to
include the ability to attach/link them to files or URLs. I'm playing with it to see if
there is a way to import my PersonalBrain info to it cleanly (looks possible via XML).
I'm impressed at the quality given that its open source. will play with export
capabilites too.

I haven't seen this discussed in this forum (though that does not
mean it has not been mentioned)...Anybody used it before?

Zman
(a long time lurker
and first time poster with a very long and chronic CRIMPer habit MAC/PC/LINUX)

Hi:

quant wrote:

1. It offers many ways to reorganize map, but none of them reorganize data so
that items connected to the selected item are moved closer to it to see crearly the
connection on the small map. Imagine a big map, and you connect two items that are far
way. You can fade away rest of the map, but the link goes through the whole map and
everything is too small.
2. no attempt to position items to minimize text/items
overlap.

I just used VUE for some brainstorming with myself (yeh, I do that sometimes) and found it very helpful. I did tend to lay out the diagram myself, though.

What I did to accomplish what you were trying to do was to use the select mode (those little boxes across the top of the screen) I clicked on the one that selected the nodes immediately connected to my node of interest. I then copied that selected set and pasted it into a new diagram. With a one or two of the layout tools I got a version that just need me to tweak some lines and positions in only a minute or two. This gave me a version where I could focus on that specific set of connectoins.

I, of course would prefer a better solution (perhaps a way to "weight" the connections and then a physics model (springs or other forces) that bring together truly connected items). But, until that comes along, I think I'll continue to use VUE for this type of work.

Also, the developer is a university. Perhaps they would respond to some requirement statements (gotta keep those grad students busy).

Charles

1. It offers many ways to reorganize map, but none of them reorganize data so
that items connected to the selected item are moved closer to it to see crearly the
connection on the small map. Imagine a big map, and you connect two items that are far
way. You can fade away rest of the map, but the link goes through the whole map and
everything is too small.
2. no attempt to position items to minimize text/items
overlap.

Using the Exloration Tool (under the Windows menu) in conjunction with the Clustering Tools in the Format menu and the selection tools (and pay attention to the six linked squares on the right side of the menu next to the search field), I'm finding there are several ways to accomplish this task. I'm much more interested by two other things:

1. There is an ability to perform a search and then create a search term node linkded to the search results - effectivey creating a visual tag that you could then roll into each of the nodes manually or leave as a separate link. There is also a tool to auto genreate reachhability matrices that you can use externally to do more detailed analysis, and
2. There is an ability to do data driven diagramming - if you think of your text and tags as data insead of words you can start to reap the benefits of this...

The Exploration tools and the Content tools hold a lot of potential uses.

Zman