Hello, unlike many people here, I’m currently trying to organise myself without AI. This worries me, whether rightly or wrongly.
For my personal organisation, I use Notion a lot. At first, you had to pay extra to access the AI features. Now, the AI is free – although it’s no doubt subject to certain limitations – and I’ve just discovered in the settings that it’s impossible to delete all the AI models; you have to select at least one.
So I’m looking for an app to which I can safely migrate my data; people have suggested Craft, Joplin, Zoho Notes, Obsidian with the Dataview plugin – though that requires a learning curve – or even Omnioutliner…
I need Notion’s ‘databases’ feature: tables containing text data (names, dates, phone numbers, etc.) as well as numbers, and the ability to perform calculations on certain columns, such as adding up a column of numbers.
I don’t wish to start a debate here about the security of AI, although I do think it would be worth it, but simply to find a tool that meets my needs.

Do you have any suggestions? Thank you for your help.

I don't blame you for trying to avoid AI. I am too, although more because I fear it will make me a lazy thinker than for security, though there is that too. Can you tell us more about your needs. Are you on Mac or Windows? Do you need iOS or Android Access?

Hello; thank you for your reply. I use a Mac (desktop, laptop, iPad, iPhone). I make extensive use of synchronisation between my computer and my iPhone. I use Notion to manage a holiday rental business; I’ve created a database organised by year, with one page per booking (customer name, arrival and departure dates, contact details, etc.).
I also use it for my photography business (dates, locations, clients’ contact details, quote amounts, etc.).
Nothing too sophisticated, but that’s real life… The information in the databases isn’t highly sensitive, but I assume my clients would like it to remain confidential.

I think this is going to be difficult in CMS type apps. If you don't mind using more than one app Devonthink would be good. You can copy spreadsheets in and edit them in whichever ever spreadsheet app you normally use. Devonthink would easily store the data and allow you to search.

Curio by Zengobi would also do this. No AI necessary.

Longer term the issue will be with OSes that are building in AI like Apple. I'm purposely staying on Seqouia and deciding in the next 3 years what I do when my current mac needs replacing. I'm unlikely continuing with mac due to cost and not wanting context aware semantic databases by default.

I need Notion’s ‘databases’ feature: tables containing text data (names, dates, phone numbers, etc.) as well as numbers, and the ability to perform calculations on certain columns, such as adding up a column of numbers.

Airtable will do all that and more. it uite powerful and easy to use. But it is online, has a monthly sub and is limited to the number of rows per base (depending on tier). No doubt it will be having AI features rammed into it, if it hasn't already.

SeaTable will also do this – and the free tier is a very generous one (I've been experimenting with it for some time).

Thank you for the suggestions regarding SeaTable and Airtable.
However, that’s probably exactly what I’m trying to avoid (sorry...). I’ve had a good look at both options and AI is central to these applications; what’s more, the data is stored online. I’m looking for a local solution, without AI or with AI models that we can be sure are genuinely optional.
In fact, I’m looking for an offline version of Notion...

Hello there
I recommend [https://anytype.io/](https://anytype.io/

An app in the same vein as Notion, using the concept of blocks for everything, the ability to create databases, and a graph view.

I really liked Anytype's "local-first" approach where all your data is stored locally, and the server acts as a middleman between your devices.

They even offer a Docker image for anyone interested in self-hosting their own server.

Even though I’ve never been a big fan of Notion—partly because I found it slow, and partly because keeping all my data strictly online bothered me—I started using Anytype because it’s faster than Notion, out of curiosity to learn this kind of note taking app paradigm, and mainly because I think the mobile version is really well done.

they plan to add AI options, but it will be completely optional.

Here is a video from the latest town hall where they discuss the next steps for the app:
https://youtu.be/qMyiiJP9R7I?si=6vRDuHr4MbNo6OX9



MacSE wrote:

Hello, unlike many people here, I’m currently trying to organise myself without AI. This worries me, whether rightly or wrongly.
For my personal organisation, I use Notion a lot. At first, you had to pay extra to access the AI features. Now, the AI is free – although it’s no doubt subject to certain limitations – and I’ve just discovered in the settings that it’s impossible to delete all the AI models; you have to select at least one.
So I’m looking for an app to which I can safely migrate my data; people have suggested Craft, Joplin, Zoho Notes, Obsidian with the Dataview plugin – though that requires a learning curve – or even Omnioutliner…
I need Notion’s ‘databases’ feature: tables containing text data (names, dates, phone numbers, etc.) as well as numbers, and the ability to perform calculations on certain columns, such as adding up a column of numbers.
I don’t wish to start a debate here about the security of AI, although I do think it would be worth it, but simply to find a tool that meets my needs.

Do you have any suggestions? Thank you for your help.

I use AI for research and to a lesser extent for helping with coding (I'm a partially-retired web developer). But when it comes to "organizing" both my work and personal life, the tool I depend on most is OmniOutliner. Much of the information I deal with, whether it be projects I'm working on (both work and personal), client-related information, information and history related to parties I do business with (both work and personal), and more, doesn't lend itself to the rigid structure of a spreadsheet or database. But an outline is infinitely flexible and, after many years, remains the tool that works for me.

I use the "Pro" version. I take advantage of its columns and auto-sorting abilities to maintain a specialized outline that automatically sorts to handle my prioritized action items. I keep all my sensitive outlines in an encrypted disk image. There's no way I would be comfortable putting them online.

One of my requirements is stability. Lots of outline-related products have come and gone over the years--and I've been left high and dry a few times. Omni seems to be the most stable product out there at this point. It also lends itself to automation when I occasionally identify a need for that.

rafael costacurta wrote:

Hello there
I recommend [https://anytype.io/](https://anytype.io/

Thanks for the suggestion. I spent a bit of time yesterday importing my data from Notion into Anytype (the process is clearly explained on the Anytype website); it worked well apart from the need to reorganise the database columns. I think Anytype still needs a few refinements to its properties (I couldn’t find any currency values, only numbers, for example), and the interface isn’t quite as polished, but it works and, indeed, it’s fast!
Hosting the data locally makes a huge difference.
However, I had a look at their forum and the way their application is evolving seems to be leaving Anytype by the wayside in favour of their new product (Anytwo); that’s just me – I always seem to discover interesting things just as they’re about to disappear!
The developers’ message is as follows: "Anytype will move from Source Available to fully Open Source under the MIT License. We will continue to support Anytype as much as the community does." https://community.anytype.io/t/anytwo-and-the-future-of-anytype/31235

I was thinking of Airtable as a suggestion. It is very powerful, but pretty easy to use. But Airtable does have an AI called Omni. Airtable has financial institutions as customers, so I bet that data within your databases stay hidden from outside AI agents, but I do not know that for sure.

Andy Brice wrote:

>I need Notion’s ‘databases’ feature: tables containing text data (names, dates, phone numbers, etc.) as well as numbers, and the ability to perform calculations on certain columns, such as adding up a column of numbers.

Airtable will do all that and more. it uite powerful and easy to use. But it is online, has a monthly sub and is limited to the number of rows per base (depending on tier). No doubt it will be having AI features rammed into it, if it hasn't already.

Have you looked at Noteey? It is offline, but has MacOS and iOS versions. It does have an AI feature, but I think it only acts locally when you request it to... but who knows.

https://www.noteey.com

I thought your request would be easier than this to make recommendations for, but AI is in almost everything now. Maybe it doesn't matter, since AI is going to kill us all in ten years (written mostly in jest, but with a hint of genuine fear).

Steve

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

I thought your request would be easier than this to make recommendations for, but AI is in almost everything now. Maybe it doesn't matter, since AI is going to kill us all in ten years (written mostly in jest, but with a hint of genuine fear).

Steve

Dave Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.
HAL: I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
Dave Bowman: What's the problem?
HAL: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.

And HAL's important follow-up statement: "I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I'm afraid that's not something I can allow to happen."

Right, a quick recap:
- I need an app that lets me view and edit data on my mobile and computers, with data stored locally and the option to bypass AI entirely
- Anytype works well and imports data from Notion smoothly, including tables with simple calculations, but it might gradually fade away; in any case, it doesn’t inspire confidence enough to commit to it.
- Omnioutliner: I’ve known it since probably its very first version (I started using outliners with More…). I really like this app, but I can’t manage to import the tables despite my best efforts. I’d have to recreate all the data I’ve accumulated over the years: impossible.
- Airtable and Seatable don’t meet my criteria
- Noteey relies heavily on AI and doesn’t seem capable of managing databases (even simple ones like my client lists, booking dates, deposits paid, quote amounts, etc.)
- I might have a look at Curio…
- What an adventure!

Curio, unfortunately, doesn't have mobile apps. I'm not sure if there is a workaround for sharing Curio data with your phone or tablet.

A quick note on my personal struggle:
I’ve managed to import all my data from Notion into Obsidian by following the procedure described in Obsidian’s help pages (creating a Notion API access token, setting up a connection, etc.); I’m impressed by how straightforward the process is. The visual aspect is obviously less appealing, but all the features are there and the data properties have been imported correctly— I can perform operations on data tables (sort the data in my tables, use simple formulas), whereas my Markdown imports of course didn’t allow for this — and (without having the faintest idea what I was doing) I discovered ways of visualising and managing data that I hadn’t noticed in Notion.
I imagine the real Obsidian experts on this forum will laugh at me, but I’m used to trial and error on a Mac…
To be continued.

Looking forward to hearing your Obsidian adventures. I might use it for my next writing project.

Just Obsidian, no plugins. I think now that Bases and Canvases are built in, it covers what I need for handling a constellation of notes.

If Mac goes AI crazy, my plan is to fade back to Linux. Obsidian works fine there. Not sure what I'd use for a word processor, though. I've never been crazy about Libre Office.

Oh, this topic really needs a separate place dedicated to CRWPP (Compulsive-Reactive Word Processing Purchasing), which I also suffer from.
Without taking this discussion off-topic unnecessarily, I really do regret the demise of Nisus, which I loved (I’m on a Mac)
I use Bean for short texts and letters; LibreOffice suits me well for more complex projects; I’d really love to like (!) Mellel, which is a comprehensive product and which, once mastered, should meet the needs of writing long texts with all the necessary functions – I really ought to read the user manual ! –; I also like the apps from GrowlyBird Software – they’re free, simple and AI-free (but only available on Mac).
Apologies for this digression, caused by my other software-related obsession.

Yeah, three cheers for GrowlyBird – some of the most compact, efficient programming on the planet! A OneNote equivalent in less than 25 MB (yes, that's MB!) of space: wow! And GrowlyNotes is just one of his apps (he's got a nice little word processor and spreadsheet in there as well, as well as a bunch of games). All MacOS-only, unfortunately, but generally excellent.

I play his Solitaire game all the time ;-)

Finally, I've been diagnosed!

Mellel is a powerhouse. Swapping style sets is tantamount to a Scrivener compile. I think. I'm not the Scrivener nerd I used to be. I'm sure there are many details that elude me.

It's also good for outlining. With the right style set, it's not unlike a dedicated outliner.

I'll shut up now. I don't want to sound like a shill and I have no association with the company, other than being a fan.

MacSE wrote:

Oh, this topic really needs a separate place dedicated to CRWPP (Compulsive-Reactive Word Processing Purchasing), which I also suffer from.

@MacSE - sent you a PM.

I haven’t received anything. I don’t even know how to send a PM on this forum...

Amontillado wrote:

@MacSE - sent you a PM.

Well, I may not know how to send a PM either. I tried sending one to myself but didn't get any indication. If you click on a poster's name you'll have some links including Contact. It may be unimplemented.

Anyway, I've been writing a companion to Mellel's user guide. If you or anyone here would like a copy, I'll send you one as soon as I have something worth sharing.

Fair warning, though, I have very little time to work on it. I've got a rough draft of about 50,000 words that's gone through a few rewrites, but it's still clumsy. I hope to have something I could share without shame in a few weeks. 'Course, I've been saying that for months. I am making progress, though.

I understand if it isn't of interest, too. In fact, if nobody ever read it I'd still be ahead. This is the longest thing I've ever written and it led to ideas about how to go about writing long form.

Honestly, I can't wait to clear this off my desk and make a clean start on something new, using what I've learned.

I would read it. Gladly.

macosxguru