Hi, so I have/had licenses to many "outliners", and have tried the following as full-term solutions: KeyNote, Maple Professional, MyBase, EPim, InfoQube, Zoot, OneNote, UltraRecall, RightNote, Watership Planner, doogiePim, emClient, Everdesk, and some combination of those with others.

However, I've always had CRIMP, since there are weaknesses in all of these based on my use cases. I used to think this was email handling, but recently I realized that information location and retrieval - and getting an overview of my data - is the chief concern. Information was just piling up and not being useful. Hence, I've been exploring the new generation, ie. LogSeq, Capacities, Tana, Heptabase, Obsidian, etc. Since the early days, I've always thought something where you could visually see an overview and drill down would be a great idea, but The Brain and mindmapping software wasn't really fitting my manner.

The winner is Heptabase, and it's not even close. Now this is of course based on my way of working and what is intuitive to me, but it hits almost every box. The features are so well thought out and integrated, with a small learning curve. It's really just incredible!

The heart of Heptabase are cards, which are organized via the Map, whiteboards, and sections. Cards can include text, pictures, attachments, code, etc. They are visual and can be linked, resized, etc. Then they can be organized into whiteboards, which may have sections. Whiteboards can contain sections or additional whiteboards, so the layering is up to your imagination and organizational style.

Additional features include: cloud OR local storage only, optional OpenAI integration, Journal, global search, card linking, two-way item links, etc. There is even a built in PDF viewer, so that PDFs can be viewed in the right pane.Speaking of the right pane, if you are viewing a card, you can open the linked card (or the backlink) in the right pane - this allows for incredibly fast access of related knowledge without interruption. It also means that the linking gives a wiki-like potential if Obsidian is more your thing.

There is also a view of Tags, which opens all cards with given tag(s) and allows filtering. Properties are given and these can be added and customized. I cannot overstate how powerful this is, although at first glance it appears to be simple. It can be viewed according to multiple organization levels, and even a Kaban board! You can also view the Map, which overviews your whiteboards and allows for organization of all aspects of your information store.

I am going to use this for basically everything other than email, which I'll keep in Outlook. But for everything else, I'll use Heptabase. When I look at my notes, I frequently whiteboard up certain overviews of ie. business and these can actually be reproduced in a vastly superior way in Heptabase. I'll be using this for all my personal and professional planning, as a knowledge base, to review and organize articles, logging meetings, code snippets, idea dump, project plans and todos, work log, goal setting and review, journal, etc.

My only nitpick is that email as an attachment is not handled well - clicking it prompts a download to your machine instead of just opening it with the default client. However, I contacted them and they are aware people want better email handling. So I expect an update to this soon.

Please check out their examples and docs: https://wiki.heptabase.com/getting-started-with-heptabase as I'm not really doing the software justice with this brief set of impressions. But this has clicked in a way that I didn't think possible - after 20 years of the ailment, my CRIMP may be cured!

Best, /TW

Thanks for this. I was impressed with your earlier enthusiasm and have started my free trial today. I'm not as seasoned in apps as you are, but I found my research needs for clear visualisation and connectable text caught between Scapple and Tinderbox for the past five years, and it could be that Heptabase will be the 'just right' option. I plan to keep both Scapple and Tinderbox - I have far too much invested in them - but I'll start some new collateral projects in HB and see how I get on.

So far the only disappointment is the PDF reader which simply doesn't work as smoothly and efficiently on a MacBook Pro as Highlights does, and the lack of space doesn't help - but moving Highlights extractions to HB should be straightforward enough.

I'll post progress comments if I think any of them could be interesting.

Thanks again. R.

Heptabase is very impressive and I like their approach to making sense of texts by mapping out the elements. But I'm an inveterate "one-pane outliner" (although that's a confusing term), meaning that I want each bullet point to stand as an independent unit. Plus I like to be able to add columns/fields to those bullets. With software like InfoQube, Tinderbox, Roam Research, Logseq, Tana, and Remnote, I can brainstorm in outline form and also view all my bullet points in a table view with custom fields. For example, I might want to see a table of bullets sorted by most recently modified, or perhaps sorted by a custom numerical attribute. Plus, I can transclude ("clone") bullets freely. As of now, the bullet points within a card in Heptabase don't appear to have such flexibility, but perhaps it will come, and Heptabase is certainly impressive as it is.

(As far as true "one-pane" outliners that also have some of the visual features of Heptabase, some of the top contenders would probably be InfoQube's Surface view, Tinderbox's Map view, and Logseq's Whiteboards.)

There are a lot of pros to that style of organization, ie. each bullet point or info item (InfoQube) being independent. Also, tools like Zoot or InfoQube (even UltraRecall) are enormously powerful in their ability to add searches/smart folders/grids for new information connections. In Heptabase you can also link to a particular bullet point, although it still isn't its own info item.

For me though, Heptabase strikes a perfect balance in keep information relevant and visible, as well as interconnected.

I also consider it to be more of a 3-paner, with those powerful features (links or PDF in right-pane).

Also, I don't use Mac so I think the PDF tools are sensational. You can have the card in the main window (with PDF attached), the PDF in the right-pane, and then highlight the PDF and made embedded links visible in the card. If you open the PDF in the main window, now all your highlights/notes are in the right-pane - you can locate them in the PDF or turn them into mentions that you then can link to from other cards, or just stick to a whiteboard. It's really sensational!

One more caveat - such as with email, files attached do not open with the default program. Hopefully they address this along with email.

In terms of subscription pricing, I think it's quite fair as several years ago I realized it's useful to pay yearly for a valuable program, as they need revenue to keep the app supported. The worst thing is to adopt a great program to see it eventually get abandoned.

Just my further thoughts on the recent comments.

Export options are weak, which is a killer for me.
"we have positioned Heptabase 1.0 as the best tool for learning and researching complex topics", so I suppose it depends on what your use would be. I'd say it's aimed more at learners than researchers.

I like many aspects, but every time I've tried it with a project I've ended up by moving it away. Either cumbersome or lacking an essential feature.

Thank you for the thorough overview of Heptabase and why it works for you. I've been impressed by the software for a while. The feature set is pretty remarkable. I haven't gone all in with Heptabase, because more recently I've tried to go simpler. Thus I'm currently using Reflect. But Heptabase is incredibly enticing.

Steve

I don't mean to be trite, but the distinction simply isn't true if you believe that even advanced research is learning. I work in the history of medicine (ex-academic) and I can see great potential value in what Heptabase is offering for my research projects - all of which involve a large amount of material which needs to be sorted, connected in various ways and kept easily available. So far, HB looks good.

On the other hand, the downsides are accumulating: not being able to open file attachments in their native app is a real pain (because of the inter-linking I want to do with my previous Tinderbox projects) and, as you say, the export options are weak. At the moment I am signed up for the trial and will continue if impressed enough this week with a monthly sub. But I'm not going to commit until I know when these weaker points might be addressed.

Dormouse wrote:

Export options are weak, which is a killer for me.
"we have positioned Heptabase 1.0 as the best tool for learning and
researching complex topics", so I suppose it depends on what your use
would be. I'd say it's aimed more at learners than researchers.

I like many aspects, but every time I've tried it with a project I've
ended up by moving it away. Either cumbersome or lacking an essential
feature.

Rausch wrote:

I don't mean to be trite, but the distinction simply isn't true if you
believe that even advanced research is learning.

I agree. I was trying to be generous. Virtuously all researchers need to publish and therefore need good exports. There was a conspicuous lack of response when I made the point, and another user's comment " the developers have pretty clearly stated that Heptabase is intended for learning and not as a notetaking or productivity app" was backed up by the developer.

I've tested it extensively for nearly a year. Many nice features, but every time I tried to use for something useful it was always missing something necessary. I was comfortable waiting for the feature set to extend but, after comments referred to above, reached the conclusion that the developers' vision wouldn't take it in directions I needed.

Dormouse wrote:

I agree. I was trying to be generous. Virtuously all researchers need to
publish and therefore need good exports. There was a conspicuous lack of
response when I made the point, and another user's comment " the
developers have pretty clearly stated that Heptabase is intended for
learning and not as a notetaking or productivity app" was backed up by
the developer.

Strangely, there is a tutorial on their "Beginner workflows" site that is called "A simple method to convert your thinking into writing".
https://wiki.heptabase.com/a-simple-method-to-convert-your-thinking-into-writing

From time to time I am looking into Heptabase. But I am always off-put because of the basic export feature: It does export to MD but only the entire database not a single card or whiteboard. Too bad.

Franz Grieser wrote:

Strangely, there is a tutorial on their "Beginner workflows" site that
is called "A simple method to convert your thinking into writing".
https://wiki.heptabase.com/a-simple-method-to-convert-your-thinking-into-writing

Yes. And discussions had often been about note-taking, using PDFs etc. The developer wrote a new article - the one about learning - just before the open launch and I concluded that this was about the market they have decided to target.

Export options are very limited, but the daily local backup includes separate markdown versions of each card. Includes internal database stuff too, so you'd have to strip that to use it. I thought about using those, but decided that it would be a) too much work and b) I didn't want to be using an app that wasn't moving in my direction.

Indeed, Heptabase just clicked for me in a way that addressed about 95% of my CRIMP symptoms. The visual organization, multiple nested whiteboards, recent whiteboards/cards at left, linking, PDF handling, tags and tag view. It all works together to enhance my ability to get an overview, see various aspects, etc. The flexibility is astonishing. I am getting a better visual overview of my goals and what they entail than with Goalscape. And I'm creating better project organization, not to mention starting to build up knowledge base.

One thing that really struck is a video link someone posted here about not taking and saving notes on everything. I previously did that meticulously, and organizing all that info can be more of a burden than a help (and now those are scatter among programs). Now I am trying to make a frame of relevant topics/areas, and set a "skeleton" of information which can be updated and replaced. The visual organization style is conducive to this, because you can remember where something is "supposed to be" and add/alter as needed, as well as get a fast overview of pertinent info.

I agree that not opening files/emails with the local app is frustrating. As well as not having at least whiteboard level export. I'll ask them about these, and see if they are on the roadmap. The program is so mature in features that hopefully they will put resources to those core features instead of more bells and whistles.

Lucas, if you like 1-paners, I see no reason to move away from InfoQube! And for those that want individual info items, again there is nothing like InfoQube IMO. I still like it tremendously, but I was not able to keep up with it and it's clear that I require a more visual style.

Okay, I have to disagree with Export being weak.

If you click the settings icon, and "Export now", you get a zip with all cards as markdown, the whiteboard structure, etc. The database stuff appears to be cards linking to cards, whiteboards, embedded pics, etc. I'm not sure how these could be omitted from the export, I'm mean this also acts as a manual backup.

So the main missing feature is to allow linked/attached files to open on your local machine, which hopefully they will address soon.

I signed on with Heptabase and am more or less abandoning Scrintal. I'm just starting out, but while there's much to like, there are some features that are kludgy or nonexistent as far as I can tell.

I don't think you can add tags on the fly (they must be added in the Info section of a particular card). Tags in particular seem to have quite limited utility so far. I find it particularly frustrating that I cannot input tags into the Property section of a card, but must essentially be type the name of each tag and have it appear as a separate bubble without any connection to the tag -- and the information put into Properties is not searchable across cards. People who have used Roam, Tana, Logseq or Obsidian might miss the ability to click on a tag and see every reference to it in one location.

I think that selecting multiple cards and moving or resizing them is poorly implemented -- you can't select multiple cards via Control + Click, but only by dragging the cursor over them. And changing the size and location of cards on a whiteboard seems similarly onerous. Maybe I've missed easier ways to do these things or that they are on their way to being improved, but I think that some users might find navigating the app to be a bit frustrating. And to be clear, in my opinion the documentation is particularly weak at this point -- more about the philosophy behind the app than about step-by-step instructions on how to do things.

Very interested in whether I have just missed things, or that these and other feature are in the works.

Tumbleweed wrote:

Okay, I have to disagree with Export being weak.

If you click the settings icon, and "Export now", you get a zip with all
cards as markdown, the whiteboard structure, etc. The database stuff
appears to be cards linking to cards, whiteboards, embedded pics, etc.
I'm not sure how these could be omitted from the export, I'm mean this
also acts as a manual backup.

This demonstrates no data lockin (up to a point) but is virtually useless in day to day use. Copy and paste is more effective.

exatty95 wrote:

I signed on with Heptabase and am more or less abandoning Scrintal.

Purely out of interest, what's prompted you to abandon Scrintal?

I used it right from the beginning, and I found it better as a writing helper than at knowledge management -- my principal use. To be fair, I haven't used it recently, as I have been using Obsidian and Tana. Looking at it now, it does seem much improved at knowledge management, so perhaps I acted prematurely. I'd be interested in others' experiences.

I liked Scrintal better than Hepta originally, but they were very late getting their dark mode out. Promised earlier but not delivered. And by that time I was using Hepta. And I've not got back into it since.
My impression is that Hepta is developing faster. And I liked it being local rather than web.
I also found that Obsidian's Canvas was often more effective when I had a task in mind. Simpler whiteboard but far more note options.

When I was thinking about giving up on Heptabase, I wondered if Mindomo could be used as whiteboard/notes instead. (The thought was triggered by trying the mindmap feature in Hepta and being surprised by how useful it was.) For my particular current needs, it's actually working very well. I still do my real notes in Tangent - but I've always done that anyway. I'm not sure I have a need for Hepta or Scrintal now. I was never comfortable with the idea of all my notes being in a database.

I am very much of the same mind: I keep Bear for my general note-taking and foresee Heptabase as project-oriented, populated only with relevant notes - either new reading and thoughts, or those carefully chosen from my existing notes. That's how I used Tinderbox too.

I'm hoping that HB is really going to help me then to organise and develop each project, or part of a project. Of course, some parts will become permanent resources for future projects as well.

R.

Tumbleweed wrote:

One thing that really struck is a video link someone posted here about
not taking and saving notes on everything. I previously did that
meticulously, and organizing all that info can be more of a burden than
a help (and now those are scatter among programs). Now I am trying to
make a frame of relevant topics/areas, and set a "skeleton" of
information which can be updated and replaced. The visual organization
style is conducive to this, because you can remember where something is
"supposed to be" and add/alter as needed, as well as get a fast overview
of pertinent info.

Thanks for this recommendation: I think I'm already sorted with my research notes and long-form writing apps (I'm testing it to see if HB fits in the middle) but I generally write a lot - as an exercise, and as a strategy: oddly enough sometimes my brainstorming seems to work better through rough prose than an analogue or digital whiteboard.

I'm not sure how much of Tangent notes I'll end up using, but the writing and rabbit-hole exploring which the app developer talks about fits this prose kind of brainstorming really well, and having used it now for a day I find that the app has a lovely friction-free presentation.

R.

Dormouse wrote:

I still do my real notes in Tangent - but I've always done that anyway.
I'm not sure I have a need for Hepta or Scrintal now. I was never
comfortable with the idea of all my notes being in a database.

I find Tangent has the features I need for notes and doesn't intrude on my thinking or writing. Simple and quite elegant.
I find that I spend 99% of my time in it thinking and writing - where in Obsidian it sometimes felt I was doing well to hit 50%. And Obsidian is always available if I need an extra feature, though I haven't so far.

I've relatively recently switched my long-form writing to Mindomo and Word. Very smooth integrated workflow, and everything had to end up in Word anyway. And it's easy to import .md notes into Mindomo if that should ever be needed. In some ways I always felt that HB was better for working with sources, but the evidence never quite backed that up.

Mobile apps for Hepta released. iOS and android... with a pdf reader to come soon.

Not a bad effort for opening their userbase to mobile!

Love the look of Tangent – thanks for the recommendation!

Dormouse wrote:

I find Tangent has the features I need for notes and doesn't intrude on
my thinking or writing. Simple and quite elegant.
I find that I spend 99% of my time in it thinking and writing - where in
Obsidian it sometimes felt I was doing well to hit 50%. And Obsidian is
always available if I need an extra feature, though I haven't so far.

After a few weeks (trial period and one-month sub) I've decided to leave Heptabase aside for the time being. Although it does have a lot of excellent features, in my case they didn't add a lot of functionality to the established workflow I already have (in fact it interrupted it).

Tangent, on the other hand, is finding a home ...

R

Tangent is great. For awhile I was running both Obsidian and Tangent, and can understand its appeal and simplicity. Also, I like it's map view better than Obsidian's graph view (which I don't use at all.) But over time I used it less and less, as the Obsidian plug-ins and customizability won me over. I don't spend much time tinkering any more, so that's how I'm able to come closer to that 99% rather than 50%. I also use Minimal theme and keep the visual interface pretty bare.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Love the look of Tangent – thanks for the recommendation!

Dormouse wrote:
I find Tangent has the features I need for notes and doesn't intrude on
>my thinking or writing. Simple and quite elegant.
>I find that I spend 99% of my time in it thinking and writing - where
in
>Obsidian it sometimes felt I was doing well to hit 50%. And Obsidian is
>always available if I need an extra feature, though I haven't so far.

Is Tangent a 1-peson operation?