Task Management Interfaces: Outlines, "Contexts", Tags, and Areas
Started by Randall Shinn
on 1/23/2009
Randall Shinn
1/23/2009 3:54 pm
Playing around with OmniFocus, Things, and The Hit List has made me consider in general several aspects of designing the interface for a task manager.
Single tasks don?t seem to be as difficult to sort out as projects. For projects, outlines seem natural. On page 220 of GTD David Allen suggests that most project planning can be handled by a simple hierarchical outline. His example is shown in Microsoft Word, and almost any outliner software could do this. OmniFocus and THL have the ability to outline project tasks built in. This is helpful for planning, and it is one of the most requested features for Things on their forum.
Contexts, tags and/or areas? Allen?s concept of ?contexts? is interesting, but in essence a context such as @home is just a type of tag. OmniFocus has stuck with ?contexts,? but Things has moved to tags and smart folders for ?areas? (of responsibility, or location, or type of work--whatever you want). The smart folders collect whatever items include the searched for tags (or you can drag items there). THL allows you to type in either tags or concepts, and the smart folders search for them in the same way.
There is a crucial difference in the way that these interfaces are set up. Both Things and THL assume that you may want to assign multiple tags to an item, and make it easy both to do this and to see all the tags that have been assigned right in the area you are working. Thus you might assign a task to ?work? ?finance?, and another to ?home? ?finance?, and another to ?vacation? ?finance? ?errand? ?30m? to remind yourself to pick up Euros before your trip to Italy (might as well imagine something fun).
Things perhaps has the multiple tag display implemented the best, but if I were planning an Italian vacation, I would love to do that in an hierarchical outline (which I can't yet do in Things). OmniFocus would let me do the outline, but unless I?m missing something, it wouldn?t be really easy to assign multiple tags. The Hit List would allow me to outline the vacation tasks, assign multiple tags, and estimate times on a single line. But THL is still in beta, lacks recurring tasks, lacks synching, and has no iPod/iPhone application.
So for the moment I?m playing around with all three, and waiting to see what happens over the next year with each program. I have read Allen?s books, but after working with these programs I feel that the ?context? label is a confusing term when used for interface design. It is not as ?neutral? as ?tag.? If I need to make a call, I don?t hesitate to put in the tag ?call?, but is the ?context? the phone that I will use to make the call or the call itself? Is my collaborator?s name the context, or is the project we?re working on the context, or perhaps the place we?re meeting? Putting in multiple tags solves all these questions, so for me that needs to be easy and visible on the same page I am working in.
Randall
Single tasks don?t seem to be as difficult to sort out as projects. For projects, outlines seem natural. On page 220 of GTD David Allen suggests that most project planning can be handled by a simple hierarchical outline. His example is shown in Microsoft Word, and almost any outliner software could do this. OmniFocus and THL have the ability to outline project tasks built in. This is helpful for planning, and it is one of the most requested features for Things on their forum.
Contexts, tags and/or areas? Allen?s concept of ?contexts? is interesting, but in essence a context such as @home is just a type of tag. OmniFocus has stuck with ?contexts,? but Things has moved to tags and smart folders for ?areas? (of responsibility, or location, or type of work--whatever you want). The smart folders collect whatever items include the searched for tags (or you can drag items there). THL allows you to type in either tags or concepts, and the smart folders search for them in the same way.
There is a crucial difference in the way that these interfaces are set up. Both Things and THL assume that you may want to assign multiple tags to an item, and make it easy both to do this and to see all the tags that have been assigned right in the area you are working. Thus you might assign a task to ?work? ?finance?, and another to ?home? ?finance?, and another to ?vacation? ?finance? ?errand? ?30m? to remind yourself to pick up Euros before your trip to Italy (might as well imagine something fun).
Things perhaps has the multiple tag display implemented the best, but if I were planning an Italian vacation, I would love to do that in an hierarchical outline (which I can't yet do in Things). OmniFocus would let me do the outline, but unless I?m missing something, it wouldn?t be really easy to assign multiple tags. The Hit List would allow me to outline the vacation tasks, assign multiple tags, and estimate times on a single line. But THL is still in beta, lacks recurring tasks, lacks synching, and has no iPod/iPhone application.
So for the moment I?m playing around with all three, and waiting to see what happens over the next year with each program. I have read Allen?s books, but after working with these programs I feel that the ?context? label is a confusing term when used for interface design. It is not as ?neutral? as ?tag.? If I need to make a call, I don?t hesitate to put in the tag ?call?, but is the ?context? the phone that I will use to make the call or the call itself? Is my collaborator?s name the context, or is the project we?re working on the context, or perhaps the place we?re meeting? Putting in multiple tags solves all these questions, so for me that needs to be easy and visible on the same page I am working in.
Randall
Stephen Zeoli
1/23/2009 8:13 pm
The power for any of application of this type is providing flexibility in viewing its contents. Outline view is great in many ways, but it is restrictive, as well. Tags/contexts can allow smart folders to filter for specific items, but is also, by design, restrictive. What I would like to see is an outliner with columns, which can have a "flat view" -- that is, the hierarchy revmoved -- and then be able to sort and sub sort on the various columns. So, for instance, you can build your task list in the outline, with the headers being higher level projects, then you can assign due dates in one column, priority in another, and -- if you're into GTD -- context in another. Then you can flatten the list, and sort on context and priority. This type of functionality could be useful in many ways, I believe. And I don't think there is any application out there that does offer this functionality... am I wrong? The key is having sortable columnar metadata, and the ability to switch back and forth from hierarchy to flat view.
Steve Z.
Steve Z.
Pierre Paul Landry
1/23/2009 8:44 pm
Hi Steve,
This feature is at the very core of InfoQube. I wrote this on donationcoder recently:
Quote from: http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=16678.25
Hierarchies can be used to help you get organized. The problem is that they can also hide your valuable information.
Being able to view the same information in hierarchy view and in flat view is essential to truly benefit from hierarchies.
Also, items must be able to belong to multiple hierarchies. Being limited to a single simple tree is very limiting
And also this:
Yes, IQ hierarchy display is optional. All items exist independent of the existence of parents, children, etc. (think of items as if they are people, you and me)
You can group people by various hierarchies (work related, family related, etc) and you can also view them in flat view, i.e. no hierarchy. This flat view makes it easier to find information (at times) and also to sort it. In general, sorting is another problem with hierarchy views (try sorting files from 2 different folders...). IQ also has a hierarchy view that sorts correctly.
Tags are basically a "smart" category field (type=text). IQ has category fields. Fields can be Text, Number, Date, Yes/No. All these (i.e. not just tags) can be used for filtering purposes.
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
This feature is at the very core of InfoQube. I wrote this on donationcoder recently:
Quote from: http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=16678.25
Hierarchies can be used to help you get organized. The problem is that they can also hide your valuable information.
Being able to view the same information in hierarchy view and in flat view is essential to truly benefit from hierarchies.
Also, items must be able to belong to multiple hierarchies. Being limited to a single simple tree is very limiting
And also this:
Yes, IQ hierarchy display is optional. All items exist independent of the existence of parents, children, etc. (think of items as if they are people, you and me)
You can group people by various hierarchies (work related, family related, etc) and you can also view them in flat view, i.e. no hierarchy. This flat view makes it easier to find information (at times) and also to sort it. In general, sorting is another problem with hierarchy views (try sorting files from 2 different folders...). IQ also has a hierarchy view that sorts correctly.
Tags are basically a "smart" category field (type=text). IQ has category fields. Fields can be Text, Number, Date, Yes/No. All these (i.e. not just tags) can be used for filtering purposes.
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
The power for any of application of this type is providing flexibility in viewing its
contents. Outline view is great in many ways, but it is restrictive, as well.
Tags/contexts can allow smart folders to filter for specific items, but is also, by
design, restrictive. What I would like to see is an outliner with columns, which can
have a "flat view" -- that is, the hierarchy revmoved -- and then be able to sort and sub
sort on the various columns. So, for instance, you can build your task list in the
outline, with the headers being higher level projects, then you can assign due dates
in one column, priority in another, and -- if you're into GTD -- context in another.
Then you can flatten the list, and sort on context and priority. This type of
functionality could be useful in many ways, I believe. And I don't think there is any
application out there that does offer this functionality... am I wrong? The key is
having sortable columnar metadata, and the ability to switch back and forth from
hierarchy to flat view.
Steve Z.
Chris Murtland
1/23/2009 9:02 pm
I haven't used it in a while, so I could be imagining this, but I think ListPro allows flattening the hierarchy. I don't know how sorting then affects the hierarchy, though.
Chris
Chris
Alexander Deliyannis
1/23/2009 9:23 pm
Yes, except for IQ, ListPro has this flatten/sort functionality which I consider essential for project/task management. You can sort on any column, including custom ones. It has been a while since I used it as well, as its portable version is Windows Mobile and I work on Symbian. Thus I have chosen Projekt which is a very powerful portable outliner.
To me, the flat view can be confusing to the point of uselessness if it is not coupled with some kind of filtering, e.g. on priority. ListPro can also do this, as can InfoQube and Projekt.
There are other ways to provide such functionality; UltraRecall can't flatten the outline but its powerful search can show the same information. One can search for tasks, for example, and then sort the search results on whatever column they wish. Similarly, Notecase Pro has a 'list' view which can be populated through search results.
Alexander
To me, the flat view can be confusing to the point of uselessness if it is not coupled with some kind of filtering, e.g. on priority. ListPro can also do this, as can InfoQube and Projekt.
There are other ways to provide such functionality; UltraRecall can't flatten the outline but its powerful search can show the same information. One can search for tasks, for example, and then sort the search results on whatever column they wish. Similarly, Notecase Pro has a 'list' view which can be populated through search results.
Alexander
Ike Washington
1/24/2009 12:13 am
Steve
I think you give a good description of some of Natara Bonsai's features. Yep, it's an outliner with columns in which the data can be shown either in a flat or hierarchical view and then sorted as required.
What I particularly like, find useful for GTD, is that filters can be saved and then accessed directly from the keyboard. In my day-to-day work file, I can see with a click what's due this week, next week, my next actions, completed projects, what I've done this week, last week, what I've tagged ("keyworded") with "To Research"or whatever and so on. The columns can stay the same or change according to the filter. And each filter can show either a flat or hierarchical view. I can set the sort when I define the filter. I can then sort using different criteria when I'm looking at the data.
It's really a great personal task/project application. No Gantt charts or collaborative features, but fine for managing day-to-day work. I bought it because I wanted to plan my projects both on my desktop and on my palm pda. But I'd use it even without the sync to the pda. The desktop version is polished. And I think the pda version is far better than ListPro - as I've said earlier: http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/3091
Ike
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
I think you give a good description of some of Natara Bonsai's features. Yep, it's an outliner with columns in which the data can be shown either in a flat or hierarchical view and then sorted as required.
What I particularly like, find useful for GTD, is that filters can be saved and then accessed directly from the keyboard. In my day-to-day work file, I can see with a click what's due this week, next week, my next actions, completed projects, what I've done this week, last week, what I've tagged ("keyworded") with "To Research"or whatever and so on. The columns can stay the same or change according to the filter. And each filter can show either a flat or hierarchical view. I can set the sort when I define the filter. I can then sort using different criteria when I'm looking at the data.
It's really a great personal task/project application. No Gantt charts or collaborative features, but fine for managing day-to-day work. I bought it because I wanted to plan my projects both on my desktop and on my palm pda. But I'd use it even without the sync to the pda. The desktop version is polished. And I think the pda version is far better than ListPro - as I've said earlier: http://www.outlinersoftware.com/messages/viewm/3091
Ike
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
... an outliner with columns, which can
have a "flat view" -- that is, the hierarchy revmoved -- and then be able to sort and sub
sort on the various columns. So, for instance, you can build your task list in the
outline, with the headers being higher level projects, then you can assign due dates
in one column, priority in another, and -- if you're into GTD -- context in another.
Then you can flatten the list, and sort on context and priority. ...
Steve Z.
Chris Thompson
1/24/2009 8:55 am
I think most outliners and task-management systems that have column support also support sorting by column and flattening... it's hard to think of ones that don't. One feature that isn't nearly as universally well-supported is displaying outline context parents (or some other contextual representation) in column views. InfoQube deserves a lot of credit for making this an option everywhere.
-- Chris
-- Chris
Stephen Zeoli
1/24/2009 12:02 pm
Chris Thompson wrote:
I think most outliners and task-management systems that have column support also
support sorting by column and flattening... it's hard to think of ones that don't. One
feature that isn't nearly as universally well-supported is displaying outline
context parents (or some other contextual representation) in column views.
InfoQube deserves a lot of credit for making this an option everywhere.
Hi, Chris,
It has not been my experience that most outliners with column support also have flattening. Two notable examples: OmniOutliner for the Mac, and MyInfo for the PC. Unless I'm missing it (possible, though I've looked), neither of those two outliners with column support have a flatten feature. OmniOutline allows for flattening during printing, but not viewing. I'd love to hear that I'm wrong about this, because these are two of my favorite outliners.
Steve Z.
Randall Shinn
1/24/2009 2:22 pm
Ike Washington wrote:
When I was using a Palm I thought Bonsai was one of the best designed task management programs I had ever seen. I especially liked the option of mixing check boxes and progress bars within the same outline.
Sorry my original post was filled with question marks. I transferred my note from Journler, and it uses smart quotes. Lesson learned.
And one correction to my original post. It seems the area folders in Things are not smart folders. They assign any task you drag to them a tag, but they won't search for tags and place all those tasks with them in the folder, which I think makes them much less useful.
Zoot was the first software I used with "smart" folders, and the Admiral understood how helpful having the software search for words and placing those items in folders could be. I suppose that one sign of progress in info management software is that this feature is becoming more common.
Randall
Steve
I think you give a good description of some of Natara Bonsai's features.
When I was using a Palm I thought Bonsai was one of the best designed task management programs I had ever seen. I especially liked the option of mixing check boxes and progress bars within the same outline.
Sorry my original post was filled with question marks. I transferred my note from Journler, and it uses smart quotes. Lesson learned.
And one correction to my original post. It seems the area folders in Things are not smart folders. They assign any task you drag to them a tag, but they won't search for tags and place all those tasks with them in the folder, which I think makes them much less useful.
Zoot was the first software I used with "smart" folders, and the Admiral understood how helpful having the software search for words and placing those items in folders could be. I suppose that one sign of progress in info management software is that this feature is becoming more common.
Randall
Ike Washington
1/24/2009 2:35 pm
Chris Thompson wrote:
Yeah, this is a definite shortcoming in Bonsai. In a flat view, without making it explicit in the task header, I can't tell what project it belongs to. But it's easy to go via the keyboard from flat to unfiltered and back again so it's not too much of a problem. And I tend to add the project's name in the header.
I'm surprised at the lack of interest in Bonsai. Doesn't anybody else use it? Doesn't it fit your requirements, Steve?
Ike
One
feature that isn't nearly as universally well-supported is displaying outline
context parents (or some other contextual representation) in column views.
Yeah, this is a definite shortcoming in Bonsai. In a flat view, without making it explicit in the task header, I can't tell what project it belongs to. But it's easy to go via the keyboard from flat to unfiltered and back again so it's not too much of a problem. And I tend to add the project's name in the header.
I'm surprised at the lack of interest in Bonsai. Doesn't anybody else use it? Doesn't it fit your requirements, Steve?
Ike
Ike Washington
1/24/2009 2:47 pm
Palm does seem to be history. There is a Bonsai version for Windows Mobile now. And the desktop version has the same feature set as the palm version, is just as well designed.
It does worry me that Palm makes life difficult for developers, isn't the easiest platform to build on. I'd move to an iPhone, Blackberry etc but I just can't afford the time or energy needed to switch just now. It's one thing playing around with photo management software, say. Quite another to mess with my time management routines. Yeah, locked in...
Ike
Randall Shinn wrote:
It does worry me that Palm makes life difficult for developers, isn't the easiest platform to build on. I'd move to an iPhone, Blackberry etc but I just can't afford the time or energy needed to switch just now. It's one thing playing around with photo management software, say. Quite another to mess with my time management routines. Yeah, locked in...
Ike
Randall Shinn wrote:
When I was using a Palm I thought Bonsai was one of the best
designed task management programs I had ever seen. I especially liked the option of
mixing check boxes and progress bars within the same outline.
Randall Shinn
1/24/2009 2:53 pm
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
The developers of Things are taking the restrictions of outlining very seriously in considering how to offer "nesting." If you go to this link http://culturedcode.com/things/wiki/index.php/Future_Features and then go to the "here" link about halfway down the page, you'll find a discussion of how they are trying to avoid burying tasks deep in outlines while still providing subprojects and subareas.
Given their already substantial user base and their careful, well-thought-out approach to adding features, I have a lot of respect for the way Cultured Code is operating as a business. By that I partially mean that I suspect they will survive and do high quality work. The way the world is at the moment, for a software company simply to keep developing and offering their product seems a major accomplishment.
Randall
The power for any of application of this type is providing flexibility in viewing its
contents. Outline view is great in many ways, but it is restrictive, as well.
Tags/contexts can allow smart folders to filter for specific items, but is also, by
design, restrictive. What I would like to see is an outliner with columns, which can
have a "flat view" -- that is, the hierarchy revmoved -- and then be able to sort and sub
sort on the various columns.
The developers of Things are taking the restrictions of outlining very seriously in considering how to offer "nesting." If you go to this link http://culturedcode.com/things/wiki/index.php/Future_Features and then go to the "here" link about halfway down the page, you'll find a discussion of how they are trying to avoid burying tasks deep in outlines while still providing subprojects and subareas.
Given their already substantial user base and their careful, well-thought-out approach to adding features, I have a lot of respect for the way Cultured Code is operating as a business. By that I partially mean that I suspect they will survive and do high quality work. The way the world is at the moment, for a software company simply to keep developing and offering their product seems a major accomplishment.
Randall
Jan Rifkinson
1/24/2009 5:21 pm
Hmmmm. Wonder about Palm Pre -- getting great reviews. Designed by former iPhoner
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-pre-in-depth-impressions-video-and-huge-hands-on-gallery/
http://www.palm.com/us/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aC2I.kb1DIjo&refer=us
With the Best Buy development, it may get a wider play, create more purchases, interest & 3rd part software
--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT USA
Ike Washington wrote:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-pre-in-depth-impressions-video-and-huge-hands-on-gallery/
http://www.palm.com/us/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aC2I.kb1DIjo&refer=us
With the Best Buy development, it may get a wider play, create more purchases, interest & 3rd part software
--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT USA
Ike Washington wrote:
Palm does seem to be history. There is a Bonsai version for Windows Mobile now. And the
desktop version has the same feature set as the palm version, is just as well designed.
It does worry me that Palm makes life difficult for developers, isn't the easiest
platform to build on. I'd move to an iPhone, Blackberry etc but I just can't afford the
time or energy needed to switch just now. It's one thing playing around with photo
management software, say. Quite another to mess with my time management routines.
Yeah, locked in...
Ike
Randall Shinn wrote:
>When I was using a Palm I thought
Bonsai was one of the best
>designed task management programs I had ever seen. I
especially liked the option of
>mixing check boxes and progress bars within the same
outline.
Stephen Zeoli
1/24/2009 7:03 pm
Ike Washington wrote:
I'm surprised at the lack of interest in Bonsai. Doesn't anybody else use
it? Doesn't it fit your requirements, Steve?
I had been a long time user of ListPro, which is very similar to Bonsai, so I mostly have not looked into Bonsai before. Because I no longer use a handheld device -- I have had both a Pocket PC and a Palm -- I have not really used ListPro much recently. I will look again at Bonsai, and reassess using the ListPro desktop application.
Steve Z.
Cassius
1/25/2009 6:18 am
Projects and, indeed, much problem solving, requires simultaneous tasks and feedback. I don't see how a "flat" view supports this. Also, based on what I've seen on the "Rationale" Web page, it doesn't seem to either.
While I am not particularly fond of flow charts, I think a graphical view of processes is often needed. And, while Inspiration is not the easiest to use, its ability to (at least partially) link an outline and a graph can be useful.
-c
While I am not particularly fond of flow charts, I think a graphical view of processes is often needed. And, while Inspiration is not the easiest to use, its ability to (at least partially) link an outline and a graph can be useful.
-c
Stephen Zeoli
1/25/2009 12:46 pm
Cassius wrote:
Projects and, indeed, much problem solving, requires simultaneous tasks and
feedback. I don't see how a "flat" view supports this.
I don't think I follow your reasoning, but perhaps I don't know what you mean by "feedback." A flat view is essentially a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet is one of the long-standing planning tools. And I don't see how a hierarchical view is more conducive to feedback. Perhaps you can explain a little more.
Steve Z.
Cassius
1/26/2009 1:50 am
Stephen Zeoli wrote:
1. Here's a "feedback" example: One has a project, part of which is to build a predictive statistical model of, say, boating fatalities. One starts with some data that "should" be useful, such as annual boat sales. One discovers that this data has NO relationship to boating fatalities. (Perhaps because the industry "fudges" the sales numbers.) This knowledge is then used to "restart" the model building process, this time testing other data. The process is repeated until one (hopefully) finds a data set that can be used to build a robust model. In this case, such data was found--unlikely as it appeared to be: Annual boating fatalities on boats of age 2 years through 20 years turned out to be almost perfectly described by a declining exponential curve with boat age as the explanatory (x-) variable.*
This is precisely what the scientific method does. One tests a theory, obtains results, modifies (or rejects) the theory, and begins again.
2. Steve Z said, "And I don't see how a hierarchical view is more conducive to feedback."
He's right, it isn't. But what I had said was, "While I am not particularly fond of flow charts, I think a graphical view of processes is often needed. And, while Inspiration is not the easiest to use, its ability to (at least partially) link an outline and a graph can be useful." When I said, "...at least partially...," I was thinking about feedback, which does not fit into the hierarchical structure of an Inspiration Outline.
* For those curious about the boating fatality example, I did the research in the middle '70s. For boat ages over 20 years, the data were too sparse to obtain any statistical significance. For boats of ages one year or less, fatalities were less than predicted by the exponential, possibly because some boats are purchased after the beginning of the boating season, or because people are more careful in a new boat. For boats of age one to two years, fatalities were greater than predicted by the exponential curve, possibly because of the "sophomore effect," which appears to apply to many situations, including, I have been told, private piloting.
-c
Cassius wrote:
>Projects and, indeed, much problem solving, requires simultaneous tasks and feedback. I don't see how a "flat" view supports this.
-------
I don't think I follow your reasoning, but perhaps I don't know what you mean by "feedback." A flat view is essentially a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet is one of the long-standing planning tools. And I don't see how a hierarchical view is more conducive to feedback. Perhaps you can explain a little more.
Steve Z.
1. Here's a "feedback" example: One has a project, part of which is to build a predictive statistical model of, say, boating fatalities. One starts with some data that "should" be useful, such as annual boat sales. One discovers that this data has NO relationship to boating fatalities. (Perhaps because the industry "fudges" the sales numbers.) This knowledge is then used to "restart" the model building process, this time testing other data. The process is repeated until one (hopefully) finds a data set that can be used to build a robust model. In this case, such data was found--unlikely as it appeared to be: Annual boating fatalities on boats of age 2 years through 20 years turned out to be almost perfectly described by a declining exponential curve with boat age as the explanatory (x-) variable.*
This is precisely what the scientific method does. One tests a theory, obtains results, modifies (or rejects) the theory, and begins again.
2. Steve Z said, "And I don't see how a hierarchical view is more conducive to feedback."
He's right, it isn't. But what I had said was, "While I am not particularly fond of flow charts, I think a graphical view of processes is often needed. And, while Inspiration is not the easiest to use, its ability to (at least partially) link an outline and a graph can be useful." When I said, "...at least partially...," I was thinking about feedback, which does not fit into the hierarchical structure of an Inspiration Outline.
* For those curious about the boating fatality example, I did the research in the middle '70s. For boat ages over 20 years, the data were too sparse to obtain any statistical significance. For boats of ages one year or less, fatalities were less than predicted by the exponential, possibly because some boats are purchased after the beginning of the boating season, or because people are more careful in a new boat. For boats of age one to two years, fatalities were greater than predicted by the exponential curve, possibly because of the "sophomore effect," which appears to apply to many situations, including, I have been told, private piloting.
-c
Ike Washington
2/1/2009 1:55 pm
Great news if Palm is back. Though since it's a new OS, limited interest to me and my palm e2.
Yes, it's the third party software which really makes a difference. All those hobyists and small developers who extended what the basic palm could do. I've just bought a new palm tungsten e2. My old one's battery gave out. But since I've stretched its capabilities via third party software to what's exactly right for me, I was quite loath to give up on it, switch to a new smartphone and have to figure out a whole new system. This might have appealed a few years ago, but I just don't have the time or energy to get caught up with tweaking on a grand scale again.
So I carry an antique unit around.
Perhaps I'll be still be raving about my Palm E2 in years to come rather like you MORE and Grandview fans out there...
Ike
------------------
Jan wrote:
http://www.palm.com/us/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aC2I.kb1DIjo&refer=us
With the Best Buy development, it may get a wider play, create more purchases, interest & 3rd part software
--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT USA
Yes, it's the third party software which really makes a difference. All those hobyists and small developers who extended what the basic palm could do. I've just bought a new palm tungsten e2. My old one's battery gave out. But since I've stretched its capabilities via third party software to what's exactly right for me, I was quite loath to give up on it, switch to a new smartphone and have to figure out a whole new system. This might have appealed a few years ago, but I just don't have the time or energy to get caught up with tweaking on a grand scale again.
So I carry an antique unit around.
Perhaps I'll be still be raving about my Palm E2 in years to come rather like you MORE and Grandview fans out there...
Ike
------------------
Jan wrote:
Hmmmm. Wonder about Palm Pre?getting great reviews. Designed by former iPhonerhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/01/08/palm-pre-in-depth-impressions-video-and-huge-hands-on-gallery/
http://www.palm.com/us/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aC2I.kb1DIjo&refer=us
With the Best Buy development, it may get a wider play, create more purchases, interest & 3rd part software
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Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT USA
Ike Washington
2/1/2009 2:05 pm
Since I have a licence for it (free from Giveaway of the day, I think), I'll look at ListPro again. Both ListPro and Bonsai are excellent for keeping track of items. It's just that Bonsai got to me first, I think. Once a system gets set up and works, others generally don't look quite right, require a steep unlearning curve as much as a learning curve. Hence my reluctance to get to grips with ListPro and InfoQube.
Ike
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Stephen Zeoli wrote:
I had been a long time user of ListPro, which is very similar to Bonsai, so I mostly have not looked into Bonsai before. Because I no longer use a handheld device?I have had both a Pocket PC and a Palm?I have not really used ListPro much recently. I will look again at Bonsai, and reassess using the ListPro desktop application.
Steve Z.
Ike
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Stephen Zeoli wrote:
Ike Washington wrote:
I?m surprised at the lack of interest in Bonsai. Doesn?t anybody else use
it? Doesn?t it fit your requirements, Steve?
I had been a long time user of ListPro, which is very similar to Bonsai, so I mostly have not looked into Bonsai before. Because I no longer use a handheld device?I have had both a Pocket PC and a Palm?I have not really used ListPro much recently. I will look again at Bonsai, and reassess using the ListPro desktop application.
Steve Z.