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Recommendations on the "new" generation of outliners?
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Posted by MadaboutDana
Jul 24, 2023 at 10:44 AM
Hm, yes, nice description of the main differences between LogSeq and Obsidian, but slightly outdated. Obsidian uses a hybrid markdown mode nowadays, so you don’t have to switch to preview (although you can choose to have notes appear in “Edit” or “Read” mode; the latter functions as a straight preview).
Bullet points can be treated like blocks, in much the same way as LogSeq (i.e. moved around etc.); bullet-point lists also fold, just like LogSeq. In that sense, Obsidian has clearly been inspired by LogSeq’s default bullet-point layout. You can further enhance this behaviour using the Outliner plugin (although that’s looking increasingly unnecessary).
It’s worth mentioning that you can link to individual blocks by adding your own identifier to any given block. But if you don’t want to do that, you can use (built-in) Bookmarks to bookmark individual blocks and then include them in links. It’s important to note that Obsidian does treat all text paragraphs as blocks, just not as obviously as LogSeq.
With respect to embedding, the amazing Hover Editor plugin (which is being considered for Core plugin status) allows you to hover over any link to view the entire note, and even to open that link in a separate window so you can edit the note. You can also embed using various plugins, but I don’t generally bother – although the ability to create embedded lists of notes based on tags (Tagged Documents Viewer) or indeed embedded lists of paragraphs/blocks of text (Tag Summary) is useful.
One of my favourite features is the (built-in!) Stacked Tabs view. This allows you to view tabs not just as horizontal labels across the top of a window, but in a kind of horizontal accordion (with the labels rotated 90 degrees). If you’re flicking between multiple documents simultaneously but don’t want to open multiple windows or use a fixed two-pane view, this is amazingly useful.
Just a few reasons why I like Obsidian so much!
Posted by MadaboutDana
Jul 24, 2023 at 10:56 AM
Re: Obsidian – I’ve just realised you can indeed embed blocks by putting an exclamation mark in front of the block ID. I must try it!
Posted by Dormouse
Jul 24, 2023 at 12:45 PM
satis wrote:
> Given that Obsidian comes from Dynalist’s
>developers it’s a bit strange they didn’t build Obsidian atop its
>outliner, or prioritize outlining like Logseq does.
>
I don’t think they wanted to risk their Dynalist business on what started as a lockdown project and they’ve said that the Dynalist codebase really needs rewriting from scratch to add new functionality (which is why it’s in maintenance mode).
>I still think that there are too many core functions that ought to be
>included in Obsidian. As I’ve said here
>before I think it’s something of an abdication of developer
>responsibility not to bake in more core functionality.
>
Many Obsidian users use few plugins, so what ought to be core functionality it a matter of opinion, and it was designed from the start to be extended with plugins - many features are core plugins which can be enabled, or not.
There have been times when they have Sherlocked a community plugin. But they are very focused on maintaining speed (important since it’s based on Electron) and would be reluctant to add anything to core that might impact speed and only be used by a subset of users.
They’ve also been limited by being just two developers (with young children) when they started and determined to rely on bootstrapping rather than VC funding. And the ability to add community plugins has been tremendously popular. Logseq are trying to follow suit there but without much traction as yet.
Posted by MadaboutDana
Jul 24, 2023 at 12:56 PM
I have to say many of the plugins are spectacular. For example, you can easily build sophisticated calculations into Obsidian (using tables or code blocks). You can use columns. You have a wide variety of linking options (since researching the whole embedded thing in more detail, I’ve discovered you can easily embed blocks either by their individual identifiers or as blocks under headings; Obsidian opens a dialog box that allows you to scroll through the blocks in a particular note to identify the one you want to link to). Just the core plugins are impressive – combined with community plugins, they become awesome.
Although there are, of course, occasional clashes… ;-)
My favourite embedded calculation function, however, has to be FS-Notes’ support for Soulver 3-style calculations. Lovers of Bear may find FS-Notes just as irresistible.
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Jul 24, 2023 at 06:13 PM
Satis, thank you very much for your reply. It’s reinforced my inclination to work in Logseq.
One other question for which I have seen mixed responses, and that is whether there are web, Android, and Chrome OS versions for Logseq. I would be using Logseq mainly on my Windows machine. However, I have an Android phone and tablet, and a Lenovo Duet 5 Chromebook (wich also functions as a Chrome OS tablet).
Thanks again.
Daly