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Tags, Nested tags, Links/backlinks, Folders- What do you use? (Also, MOC's or Maps of Content pages)
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Posted by steveylang
Dec 15, 2021 at 06:19 PM
How do you all organize your information- tags, nested tags, links/backlinks, folders, something else, nothing at all, or some combination of the above?
I’ve always been a folder guy (out of habit) but right now I’m thinking links/backlinks may be a better way of organizing information, and perhaps using tags for other metadata (status, type of note, etc.)
I have been using Notion for just a couple of weeks, and found myself skipping folder organization and creating ‘dashboard’ project pages that contained a combination of notes, tasks, links to subpages, and even databases in some cases. Then later I read about the concept of MOC’s (Map of Content) and realized I was basically doing the same thing:
https://forum.obsidian.md/t/a-step-by-step-process-for-thinking-with-multiple-notes-in-markdown/1944
My main complaint with Notion is that your data is cloud-only, which can create UI lag and limit access at times. I still may continue with Notion, but am now realizing I can create my dashboard pages with links/backlinks with any PIM that supports it. I already have an UpNote lifetime license, and there are plenty of options- Obisidian, Bear, Craft, etc.
One area where I thought traditional folders might have an advantage is ability to select many notes and categorize at once by moving into a folder. But I wouldn’t be surprised if many apps can accomplish the same with links or tags.
Thanks for reading!
Posted by Amontillado
Dec 16, 2021 at 03:04 AM
I use tags for two things in Devonthink.
Tags can be used to add state information to documents. They can also impose alternate hierarchies, and I really enjoy that.
My latest favorite trick is a script to merge all the markdown documents in a group or tag. For instance, create a tag called Chapter One. Tag all the scene and character notes that contribute to that chapter with the Chapter One tag.
Add the merge script to the tag. Now when you click on the tag you get an updated document with all the individual components merged into one.
If you set the sort order to Unsorted, you can drag and drop to set the order of the documents in a tag or group, which will be respected in the auto-merged version, too.
Not really a critical function, but kind of fun for musing.
Posted by steve-rogers
Dec 16, 2021 at 02:28 PM
I use “Labels” in DT similarly for status/state. I have one group per individual project in an overarching “Projects” group. Each individual project folder contains an .rtf file (with procedures, protocols, and project notes) and all other support materials (documents, PDFs, data) associated with the project. I assign a label to each folder according to status (green=active, yellow=waiting, red=backburner, blue=complete). I parse active projects into a Smart group in the sidebar set to include only items in the “Projects” group that have the label “green/active” for a running list of things I’ am actively working on. The advantage of this is each group has a color associated with their status as a visual cue. The disadvantage is some DT updates forget the name of the label (but keep the color) and have to be re-entered.
In a recent DT tip, I learned that tags may be colored, as well. So perhaps tagging is a better mechanism to 1) preserve the colored visual cue while 2) attaching the “status” to each child element of the group by inheritance.
I really like the tag-based document merge trick you described for composing documents from component parts. I was unaware, so thanks for that!
Steve
Amontillado wrote:
I use tags for two things in Devonthink.
>
>Tags can be used to add state information to documents. They can also
>impose alternate hierarchies, and I really enjoy that.
>
>My latest favorite trick is a script to merge all the markdown documents
>in a group or tag. For instance, create a tag called Chapter One. Tag
>all the scene and character notes that contribute to that chapter with
>the Chapter One tag.
>
>Add the merge script to the tag. Now when you click on the tag you get
>an updated document with all the individual components merged into one.
>
>If you set the sort order to Unsorted, you can drag and drop to set the
>order of the documents in a tag or group, which will be respected in the
>auto-merged version, too.
>
>Not really a critical function, but kind of fun for musing.
Posted by Reder
Dec 18, 2021 at 05:30 AM
steveylang wrote:
How do you all organize your information- tags, nested tags,
>links/backlinks, folders, something else, nothing at all, or some
>combination of the above?
Overall, the most important thing to me is the title of a note, and the tool needs to allow me to directly “jump” to the exact one in 80% of the case. Notational Velocity is the first one to bring this to me, and all main tools I use nowadays supports that (Workflowy, TheBrain, Obsidian).
The hierarchy structure works for me, and that’s the main reason I still prefer Workflowy and TheBrain. With the Mirror introduced in Workflowy, I am able to have the same note under several different hierarchy, which helps to find and track down information. The Brain supports that with parent thoughts for a long time.
I use tags sparsely, probably about 10 to 20 tags. It’s the way I separate the notes out and give me a quick filtered view. The Workflowy view is the one I like the most.
Nested tags don’t work for me. With the provided hierarchy structure, it works much better than maintaining a separated and limited structure. I am still figuring out if I like links or backlinks. It sounds like a wonderful idea but I haven’t found it useful, at least for looking up or organization.
Posted by Dr Andus
Dec 18, 2021 at 12:43 PM
steveylang wrote:
How do you all organize your information- tags, nested tags,
>links/backlinks, folders, something else, nothing at all, or some
>combination of the above?
>
>I’ve always been a folder guy (out of habit) but right now I’m thinking
>links/backlinks may be a better way of organizing information, and
>perhaps using tags for other metadata (status, type of note, etc.)
I think a lot depends on what the purpose of organising information is (such as what type of job you’re in, e.g. research, management, writing etc.), what the type and amount of information is that you are dealing with on a daily basis and what your working habits are (single machine and location, multiple different machines, OS’s, and locations) etc.
My situation is complex (needing to juggle management, with research, teaching etc.), using mutliple machines and locations (incl. virtual locations for where data is saved), with diverse and large amount of information coming my way (think of a fire hose).
I had to give up any ambition to organise all this information. It’s now about making an immediate judgement whether something is important to read, save, and tag or not, and if yes, whether it’s for short term or long term purposes, and then choose the system and approach that best suits that purpose.
I kind of established a 2-tier system.
For things that I need to deal with immediately and intensively for a short period of time I’d use Google Drive (using folders and search to find things), Google Sheets (to work things out to make decisions, and then being able to quickly find them again and refer to them - pastes nicely into Outlook emails as simple tables), and Roam for day-to-day task management, which also turns into a growing database of past tasks and decisions (where it’s all about automatic backlinks, and also forward linking into the future (linking items to future dates that will become relevant, so they are kind of “links to the future” and “backlinks from the future”)), so all this is accessible from any device from the browser.
For things that are needed for longer term memory, I’d organise them in folders on my local PC. But if there is anything that is super important, I’d also record that location in Roam and WorkFlowy, as ‘overlays’ or maps for whatever is saved in my folders.
I use WorkFlowy for longer-term planning, project tracking and memory management, though also sometimes to work out urgent issues quickly. In WorkFlowy the hierarchy is a kind of de facto folder organisation. I mainly use tags to annotate items, rather than a tool for organising.
The recent improvements in WorkFlowy though have created some interesting opportunities. Recently I needed to design a database for being able to quickly filter items on a variety of criteria (to help analyse different scenarios, such as different opportunities that arise on the basis of different combinations of criteria being selected), and WorkFlowy has turned out to be amazing for this, as I could build quite a sophisticated database, where individual items can contain external links, images, lots of text etc., but it’s easy to analyse the data by filtering for different combination of criteria (using tags), and the ability to add colour to different tags and items also helps visually understand the situation.
So you can whittle down a long list of hundreds of items which otherwise would be hard to get an overview of into a handful, by just continuing to click on different tags (to narrow results gradually), as the displayed results are gradually reducing in number to even one or two items being displayed, as the outcome of a particular line of logic. Yes, you could try to do this in Excel or Google Sheets or some other database software and use filters, but each WorkFlowy item can hold so much richer data than a cell or row can, and it’s quicker and easier to click on the tag to filter for it, than using spreadsheet filters.
I guess this was a long answer to say that I use many different tools with many different organising principles for different purposes. Maybe I have a tendency to do this, but I can’t see how else I could deal with the amount of information that is coming my way, and given the need to do both short-term decision making and longer term planning and information retrieval.
Yes, it is a bit of a mess, but I’ve given up on the idea of a single approach or system, as it’s too time-consuming to construct one and then stick to it, and one tool or approach doesn’t suit all the needs, and the needs are often changing.
Maybe the “single system” is the particular combination of the various toolchains and workflows that I use across these multiple software and devices, which itself keeps changing and evolving as situations change.
BTW, the “fire house” is essentially a constant stream of emails (and their attachments) coming in via Outlook (even that I need to manage using two separate tools, the Outlook Windows client and the Outlook web client), as well as info coming in via MS Teams chats and posts.