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How do you deal with Privacy?
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Posted by Simon
Sep 5, 2021 at 07:50 AM
And there’s the point. In calluding with the Chinese government they make millions/billions from the Chinese people. They would be better not to sell their products and services at all. If all the corporations and nations did that it would send the message the human rights abuse will not be tolerated. But to profit from it is in fact profiteering in the same way people profited from the misery of those in the second world war.
satis wrote:
>
>Simon wrote:
>> Profiteering includes profit made unethically.
>
>You haven’t shown that Apple has either made excessive profits - the
>definition of profiteering - or even defended your claim that they’ve
>acted unethically (a tangential claim). Indeed, you yourself separated
>the two issues when you wrote “Their profiteering in China at the
>expense of peoples human rights and privacy”. I really don’t think
>you’ve made either case.
>
>> I’m not on about
>>Apple’s workers, but Apple’s complicity with a regime that
>>removes human rights and abuses people. And of course Apple
>aren’t
>>the only ones. But in this case it’s iCloud that my data is on
>and
>>there unethical practices will not induce me to trust them.
>
>Apple has no option other than to comply with Chinese law, or else stop
>selling products in the country. Option A: Apple does what it
>did — store all Chinese users’ iCloud data on
>servers in China, under the ultimate control of the Chinese government.
>Option B: Apple refuses to do so, and the Chinese government shuts down
>iCloud in China and probably bans the sale of Apple devices. Is there an
>Option C? I don’t think there is. Option A is Apple’s only
>way to serve their own customers in China. Chinese iCloud users have
>less privacy than iCloud users everywhere else in the world. But
>that’s true of every aspect of life in China. As the NYTimes noted
>back in May, “People close to Apple suggested that the Chinese
>authorities often don’t need Apple’s data, and thus demand
>it less often, because they already surveil their citizens in myriad
>other ways.” For example:
>
>https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/technology/china-surveillance.html
>
>If you feel any company that manufactures in China or follows a
>country’s laws - which it has no option but do - perhaps it’s you being
>unethical by using the company’s products… but good luck finding a
>computer maker that doesn’t manufacture in China and follow Chinese laws
>for its workers.
Posted by satis
Sep 5, 2021 at 12:08 PM
Simon wrote:
And there’s the point. In calluding with the Chinese government
>they make millions/billions from the Chinese people.
Calluding (sic), aka following the law, is what every company does in every country on the planet. And that’s not profiteering.
> They would be
>better not to sell their products and services at all.
So you would be better not to buy anything form China then. But you don’t. By your own logic (with which I disagree) you are profiteering.
Posted by satis
Sep 5, 2021 at 12:11 PM
... or at the very least benefiting from what you believe to be immoral behavior which should not be tolerated. You are yourself ‘complicit’ by your own definition and all you do is ‘lack trust’ in the company? Does not… compute.
Posted by satis
Sep 5, 2021 at 12:13 PM
Amontillado wrote:
>That’s a good thing. The encryption is handled by the OS using OS
>features heavily used and constantly refined. Meanwhile, Devonthink
>accesses an encrypted file exactly the same way it would access an
>unencrypted database. Files are still kept in their original form. They
>are in an encrypted box, rather than being encrypted or modified in any
>risky way.
This is what I assumed was being done with Obsidian. Perhaps they’ll eventually get it working.
Posted by satis
Sep 5, 2021 at 12:22 PM
Luhmann wrote:
>If Apple used true e2e
Again, that’s not a definitional term. There are multiple flavors and types of e2e, which only means communication is never decrypted during transmission from sender to receiver.
>If you do use iCloud services you should understand what that means:
We agree.
>2. It depends on whether you trust the government in your country
Except you have no choice. And those who do not can utilize their own on-device encryption before sending it to a cloud drive (although they’d be subject to judicial decryption orders, just as cloud providers are, as we’ve seen in cases in the US and around the world).
>Apple complies with the laws of whatever country they are in. Some
>countries, like Germany, place a higher value on privacy, while others,
>like China, much less. (China is enacting new privacy laws right now,
>but these are privacy from corporations, not the government, which will
>continue to have complete access to your data.) Since Apple has the keys
>to your data, and complies with these laws, your data is only as secure
>as these laws are. In the case of China, Apple gives the government
>complete access to your iCloud.
Potentially, but then the same goes for the US as well. The Chinese government cannot simply access cloud files at will, but need to petition for individual account keys, to which they do not have free access.
> In the case of the US they only do so
>when law enforcement requests it and they don’t always comply with
>requests if they feel that the request would not hold up in court.
Actually it’s exactly the same in China, the difference being that the government is more insistent and moves much more quickly, and the judiciary is servile.
>Having looked at this situation, and the fact that my iCloud info is in
>the US, I have decided that this situation is acceptable for my needs,
>and when it is not I can always use an extra layer of encryption before
>putting something in the cloud.