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How do you deal with Privacy?
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Posted by UserX123
Sep 2, 2021 at 03:54 AM
Two cents on DevonThink, since there seems to have been some confusion about what encryption it does or doesn’t offer in this thread.
DT does actually enable users to locally encrypt databases when creating them. To access a database, the password then needs to be entered.
In addition, when synchronizing with iOS via any of the available clouds, one can also set a password to encrypt the data that will be stored in the cloud (called “sync store”). Regarding synchronization, there is also the option to synchronize data via the local wifi, also encrypted by password, so that it is never stored in any cloud in the first place.
So, quite frankly, DevonThink is a great data storage tool for anyone concerned with both raw power under the hood (via automation) and privacy. I realize this sounds like an ad, but I’m really just an enthusiastic user and in no way affiliated :)
Posted by Simon
Sep 4, 2021 at 07:18 PM
Profiteering includes profit made unethically. I’m not on about Apple’s workers, but Apple’s complicity with a regime that removes human rights and abuses people. And of course Apple aren’t the only ones. But in this case it’s iCloud that my data is on and there unethical practices will not induce me to trust them.
satis wrote:
>
>Simon wrote:
>> Their profiteering in China at the expense of peoples human
>> rights and privacy shows a complete lack of integrity.
>
>If you don’t want to trust iCloud that’s up to you but I’d ask you to
>define ‘profiteering’ and perhaps also explain how Apple’s worker
>conditions or legally-mandated treatment of customers in China is one
>iota worse than any other tech company in that country.
Posted by Amontillado
Sep 4, 2021 at 11:51 PM
Thank you! I had not entered an encryption key on my sync store. I haven’t tested it, but I’m quite sure you’re correct and I was wrong.
My apologies to any I misled. I, too, am an enthusiastic Devonthink user. More so, now.
In my defense, there is no option I can find to encrypt a sync store at the time you create it.
Instead, if you use the “i” button to get information about a sync store, there’s a blank to add an encryption key.
It’s not important in my case, since I use an encrypted thumbdrive for the “local” sync store I use between my Macbook and my iMac.
I’m encrypted by default.
When you add encryption to a sync store, it shows a little gray key beside the sync store in the Preferences.
I’ve added a key to my iCloud sync store. Much nicer, now!
The way that Devonthink encrypts local databases is reassuring, too. A sparse, encrypted, volume (image file) contains a normal unencrypted database. The encryption is done by the containing volume.
That’s a good thing. The encryption is handled by the OS using OS features heavily used and constantly refined. Meanwhile, Devonthink accesses an encrypted file exactly the same way it would access an unencrypted database. Files are still kept in their original form. They are in an encrypted box, rather than being encrypted or modified in any risky way.
Thanks again, UserX123. I really appreciate your kind correction.
UserX123 wrote:
Two cents on DevonThink, since there seems to have been some confusion
>about what encryption it does or doesn’t offer in this thread.
>
>DT does actually enable users to locally encrypt databases when creating
>them. To access a database, the password then needs to be entered.
>
>In addition, when synchronizing with iOS via any of the available
>clouds, one can also set a password to encrypt the data that will be
>stored in the cloud (called “sync store”). Regarding synchronization,
>there is also the option to synchronize data via the local wifi, also
>encrypted by password, so that it is never stored in any cloud in the
>first place.
>
>So, quite frankly, DevonThink is a great data storage tool for anyone
>concerned with both raw power under the hood (via automation) and
>privacy. I realize this sounds like an ad, but I’m really just an
>enthusiastic user and in no way affiliated :)
Posted by satis
Sep 5, 2021 at 01:51 AM
Simon wrote:
> Profiteering includes profit made unethically.
You haven’t shown that Apple has either made excessive profits - the definition of profiteering - or even defended your claim that they’ve acted unethically (a tangential claim). Indeed, you yourself separated the two issues when you wrote “Their profiteering in China at the expense of peoples human rights and privacy”. I really don’t think you’ve made either case.
> I’m not on about
>Apple’s workers, but Apple’s complicity with a regime that
>removes human rights and abuses people. And of course Apple aren’t
>the only ones. But in this case it’s iCloud that my data is on and
>there unethical practices will not induce me to trust them.
Apple has no option other than to comply with Chinese law, or else stop selling products in the country. Option A: Apple does what it did — store all Chinese users’ iCloud data on servers in China, under the ultimate control of the Chinese government. Option B: Apple refuses to do so, and the Chinese government shuts down iCloud in China and probably bans the sale of Apple devices. Is there an Option C? I don’t think there is. Option A is Apple’s only way to serve their own customers in China. Chinese iCloud users have less privacy than iCloud users everywhere else in the world. But that’s true of every aspect of life in China. As the NYTimes noted back in May, “People close to Apple suggested that the Chinese authorities often don’t need Apple’s data, and thus demand it less often, because they already surveil their citizens in myriad other ways.” For example:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/17/technology/china-surveillance.html
If you feel any company that manufactures in China or follows a country’s laws - which it has no option but do - perhaps it’s you being unethical by using the company’s products… but good luck finding a computer maker that doesn’t manufacture in China and follow Chinese laws for its workers.
Posted by Luhmann
Sep 5, 2021 at 07:37 AM
It seems to me that a discussion of Apple’s ethics belongs somewhere other than in this thread. The question posed here is whether or not your data is secure with Apple? To answer this one has to break it down into two separate questions:
1. This depends in part on whether you trust Apple
If Apple used true e2e you would not need to trust them, because they wouldn’t have the keys to your data. This is the case with some of your data, like passwords, but not others, like iCloud backups. If you don’t trust Apple you could use a phone without using any iCloud services and your info would be very secure.
If you do use iCloud services you should understand what that means:
2. It depends on whether you trust the government in your country
Apple complies with the laws of whatever country they are in. Some countries, like Germany, place a higher value on privacy, while others, like China, much less. (China is enacting new privacy laws right now, but these are privacy from corporations, not the government, which will continue to have complete access to your data.) Since Apple has the keys to your data, and complies with these laws, your data is only as secure as these laws are. In the case of China, Apple gives the government complete access to your iCloud. In the case of the US they only do so when law enforcement requests it and they don’t always comply with requests if they feel that the request would not hold up in court.
Having looked at this situation, and the fact that my iCloud info is in the US, I have decided that this situation is acceptable for my needs, and when it is not I can always use an extra layer of encryption before putting something in the cloud.