I’ve used Ecco Pro for many years, and it may be that finally I’m not able to run it at work (might need admin privileges to run after latest Windows update).
I use only Windows for work, writing patent applications. I use Ecco to dump a lot of potential content for the patent application, organize it, rearrange it, collapse/expand heavily, and often write preliminary paragraphs in Ecco, then move to Word. I often use multiple tabs (are they called notebooks? Can’t remember, and can’t open Ecco right now to check). I also really like the ability to add another notebook to a window to get a side by side view of two outlines. It’s critical for me to have a clean interface, to avoid distraction. I’ve tried InfoQube a few times, and I’m sorry, but the interface is just not for me. I use Dynalist for managing personal todos, but haven’t used it for the larger amount of content my work would entail. So I’m looking for options for my type of workflow, on Windows. I don’t use Ecco to maintain, long term, a large database of items. I use it to whittle down a large pile of information into eventual paragraphs, using basic expand, collapse, move, rearrange outline operations. And although the single pane view is where I spend 90%+ of my time, the side by side view and multiple tabs are helpful. I don’t use other Ecco features much, like columns or linking items between folders or filtering. I do use styles occasionally, to make top level items stand out more. I like the hotkeys to expand collapse items at different levels. So, I know this gets asked now and then, but any hints on what my best options might be on Windows ?

Thanks in advance.

You've already mentioned the two outliners that first come to mind: InfoQube and Dynalist.

Another that would work is Emacs Org-mode, a great outliner that meets all your requirements though it has a learning curve. A potential set-up could be using Markdown in VS Code, which approximates an outline using heading styles.

I'm leapfrogging over Dynalist and InfoQube, since you've already decided they won't work for you. An outlining app that is now defunct, but which might still work is called Noteliner. It is very clever. You can download it here:

https://download.cnet.com/Noteliner/3000-2076_4-75328353.html

Here's the webarchive of the original home page:

https://web.archive.org/web/20151110020459/http://www.noteliner.org/i/Main.html

From your description of how you use ECCO, perhaps an app like Scrivener -- incorporates an outliner, but really isn't one -- would work:

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

Steve

I really liked Noteliner as a quick and simple single-pane outliner. I even stress-tested it by loading a handful of books from Gutenberg, and even with 1.2 million words in a file, it operated pretty quickly (although loading time was not quick).

Unfortunately, development ceased, although I think you can still download it from the web archive - https://web.archive.org/web/20151020061833/http://www.noteliner.org/i/Main.html

Have you tried the pared-down Outliner version of InfoQube? It has a simpler interface. See bottom of https://www.infoqube.biz/download

Nice simultaneous posts about Noteliner :-D

Also, I *think* you can run Ecco from a USB stick, although I've never tried it. You can get the "installation" files from https://groups.io/g/EccoPro (after signing up) - you don't really have to install it, just extract it somewhere.

How strong are the outliner features in Scrivener ?

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

From your description of how you use ECCO, perhaps an app like Scrivener
-- incorporates an outliner, but really isn't one -- would work:

https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview

Steve

Great minds...

Chris Murtland wrote:

Nice simultaneous posts about Noteliner :-D

Also, I *think* you can run Ecco from a USB stick, although I've never
tried it. You can get the "installation" files from
https://groups.io/g/EccoPro (after signing up) - you don't really have
to install it, just extract it somewhere.

Well, great for a wordprocessing app; mediocre for an outliner. You can build outlines pretty quickly and rearrange the nodes with drag and drop, including nesting the nodes. I know you said you didn't use the columns of ECCO very much, but you do have access to a number of meta-data columns in Scrivener.

There is a free trial, so I would suggest giving it a run.

ndodge wrote:

How strong are the outliner features in Scrivener ?

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

>From your description of how you use ECCO, perhaps an app like
Scrivener
>-- incorporates an outliner, but really isn't one -- would work:
>
>https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview
>
>Steve

Stephen Zeoli wrote:

Well, great for a wordprocessing app; mediocre for an outliner.

And occasionally problematic for a writing app, it seems. Although I own the app I do not use it, but someone I know who's written over a dozen novels (and ghostwritten about that many more) recently lost several chapters and notes for a book when something in Scrivener got corrupted. She's told me that she's heard that this has happened to others she knows as well. She's so gun shy she's now abandoned Scrivener and is working with Pages + SaveTheCat (which to me seems like torture) as she builds out a couple of novels in progress from beat sheets. The change doesn't seem to be bothering her, although she said she'll probably look for something better later on this year.

ndodge,
If using Mac OS is an option for you. Try SheetPlanner. it should be very familiar to Ecco users.

Over time we will add more and more of the power features that Ecco users loved.

Peter

ndodge wrote:

I’ve used Ecco Pro for many years, and it may be that finally
I’m not able to run it at work (might need admin privileges to run
after latest Windows update).
I use only Windows for work, writing patent applications. I use Ecco to
dump a lot of potential content for the patent application, organize it,
rearrange it, collapse/expand heavily, and often write preliminary
paragraphs in Ecco, then move to Word. I often use multiple tabs (are
they called notebooks? Can’t remember, and can’t open Ecco
right now to check). I also really like the ability to add another
notebook to a window to get a side by side view of two outlines.
It’s critical for me to have a clean interface, to avoid
distraction. I’ve tried InfoQube a few times, and I’m
sorry, but the interface is just not for me. I use Dynalist for
managing personal todos, but haven’t used it for the larger amount
of content my work would entail. So I’m looking for options for
my type of workflow, on Windows. I don’t use Ecco to maintain,
long term, a large database of items. I use it to whittle down a large
pile of information into eventual paragraphs, using basic expand,
collapse, move, rearrange outline operations. And although the single
pane view is where I spend 90%+ of my time, the side by side view and
multiple tabs are helpful. I don’t use other Ecco features much,
like columns or linking items between folders or filtering. I do use
styles occasionally, to make top level items stand out more. I like the
hotkeys to expand collapse items at different levels. So, I know this
gets asked now and then, but any hints on what my best options might be
on Windows ?

Thanks in advance.

OmniOutliner? Still chugging along. Stable, polished, reasonably fast--perhaps the most solid pure outliner out there. I use it heavily.

Hi ndodge,

if I get you right and you look for basic outliner features, maybe the outline feature of Atlantis Wordprocessor (Collapsible Headings) will do:

https://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/help/collapsible_headings.htm

At least it meets all the requirements you mentioned:

- no columns
- multiple tabs/windows
- highly compatible to MS Word (probably you won't need Word anymore)
- dead easy drag & drop rearrangement of items in a tree view (control board)

https://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/help/control_board_headings.htm

- all the features of an advanced word processor

Best regards
Achim

Just tried to download and run Noteliner from the given link but it doesn't work.

Can't find the Microsoft VC80 runtime and installing it didn't solve the problem either.
Maybe i find some time investigating it later or does someone knows how to run this on Windows 20H2?

Just tried to download and run Noteliner from the given link but it doesn't work.

Can't find the Microsoft VC80 runtime and installing it didn't solve the problem either.
Maybe i find some time investigating it later or does someone knows how to run this on Windows 20H2?

Noteliner's dev had a site on MobileMe/iCloud, a feature that Apple discontinued 7-8 years ago. You can still see a version of his site here

https://web.archive.org/web/20151110020459/http://www.noteliner.org/i/Main.html

I think you can still download the last (aged) version of the app from Softpedia.

I think you can still download the last (aged) version of the app from
Softpedia.

Thats exactly like the other link posted here. It's the zip archive not in installer or a zip that contains the C Compiler + MFC DLL runtime.
And new Windows wont allow side loading of the DLLs anymore if you just put them just in the folder.

Too much security kills it all ... you don't even get a normal error message anymore.

Thanks everyone. Good news is that my IT department worked hard to try to get it to work, turns out deleting registry entries for NetManage does the trick.

I'll look at a few of the other options (I am limited to Windows) becasue some day I probably will have to switch. Dynalist is also still a potential candidate as well, I did a test workflow and I think it could work ok. But for now, I still carry on with Ecco.

I'll probably check this one out (need to get permission to install, although this has a run from thumb drive looks like you need to do a full install first and then export to a thumb drive install). If I can do collapsible headings within table cells then I may have struck gold-just hoping, no idea if that will work).

Achim wrote:

Hi ndodge,

if I get you right and you look for basic outliner features, maybe the
outline feature of Atlantis Wordprocessor (Collapsible Headings) will
do:

https://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/help/collapsible_headings.htm

At least it meets all the requirements you mentioned:

- no columns
- multiple tabs/windows
- highly compatible to MS Word (probably you won't need Word anymore)
- dead easy drag & drop rearrangement of items in a tree view (control
board)


https://www.atlantiswordprocessor.com/en/help/control_board_headings.htm

- all the features of an advanced word processor

Best regards
Achim