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Zavala - An open source outliner for Macs, iPads, and iPhones
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Posted by Maurice Parker
Oct 30, 2021 at 08:29 PM
In retrospect, I see what a poor choice of name “Row Metadata” is. It will do nothing but confuse most users and probably frighten some of them.
I like “tag(s)” for a name, but I’ve kind of backed myself into a corner there. I use “tag” to identify a way of categorizing and organizing outlines. Using it differently when applied towards rows is going to be confusing.
I’m kind of leaning toward the word “token”. As in, you can apply different tokens to a row to give it structured meaning. In a search field on iOS and macOS, we sometimes use what are called tokens to do structured searches. For example, in Mail.app if you do a search, Mail.app offers to limit your search to the subject field. You then end up with a token that has “subject” on the left and the search term on the right. That’s kind of what I am going after, so “token” mostly works.
As you point out, the one of the biggest weaknesses to this proposal is scanning for data visually. I will need to work on this some. One thing I do plan on doing is being able to search by metadata key and value. That way only the rows meeting a given criteria will be shown and the found metadata can be accentuated (probably by color) to make it stand out more. I concede that columns will probably always be superior for visual scanning.
Thank you for your input and your time, Satis. It is very difficult (impossible) to make well designed software in a vacuum. I really appreciate it when someone helps me get a different perspective.
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Oct 30, 2021 at 08:45 PM
I think most people are familiar with the term columns, and that in infomanagers/outlining programs they provide metadata. If you can offer an innovative twist on columns that’s great!
Daly
Posted by Maurice Parker
Oct 30, 2021 at 09:06 PM
That’s a good point. The column data from OmniOutliner will translate into Zavala metadata and back the same way. Anything I can do to tie those together would be helpful. I just can’t think of anything way (so far) to do that without actually using columns.
Posted by Luhmann
Oct 31, 2021 at 06:14 AM
In Logeq there is the the concept of “block properties” which appear somewhat like notes, on a line below the block, but not as a separate block.
- block #tag
property:: value
property 2:: value
- child block
(included a tag, which is different from a property in logseq, in that it appears inline within the block)
In Logseq you can query such properties (and generate tables) somewhat differently than tags.
Posted by Maurice Parker
Oct 31, 2021 at 03:16 PM
Thanks for pointing to Logseq, Luhmann. I was aware of the project, but hadn’t spent anytime with it until you pointed it out.
It does look like their “block properties” are basically the same concept as columns (or row metadata). It would be nice if they imported and exported block properties in OPML, but it doesn’t look like they do. That might change at some point. It looks like a project that is still being fleshed out.
I’ll have to keep an eye on Logseq. It isn’t my style, but they do have some interesting concepts in there. As far as that goes, there is probably a lot I could learn from the Roam Research derivatives that are out there.