This article by Cal Newport in the New Yorker Magazine may be of interest to some in this forum.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-rise-and-fall-of-getting-things-done

Thanks for posting this very interesting piece. The essential point is correct: knowledge worker autonomy is a myth. Creative energy really is a limited resource, and the challenge of "frictionless" demands on your time via email is an obstacle to productivity. In my previous job, I could see that email was sapping my will to live. I worked out some coping strategies, but a larger, systemic response does seem necessary.

The heart of the article, I thought, was this:

"Consider instead a system that externalizes work. Following the lead of software developers, we might use virtual task boards, where every task is represented by a card that specifies who is doing the work, and is pinned under a column indicating its status. With a quick glance, you can now ascertain everything going on within your team and ask meaningful questions about how much work any one person should tackle at a time. With this setup, optimization becomes possible."

xtabber wrote:

This article by Cal Newport in the New Yorker Magazine may be of
interest to some in this forum.

https://www.newyorker.com/tech/annals-of-technology/the-rise-and-fall-of-getting-things-done

Thanks for posting the link. I respect Cals' work, but this piece, IMHO, was long on history and short on some practical solutions. Cal makes a lot of assumptions about large organizations and how they operate, but much of what he described does not apply to my work environment in a large municipal government. It is great to talk theories and give workers ideas about how to look at their work, which I do believe is helpful if you have an open mind to the situation at hand, but at the end of the day, the work still needs to get done. I also believe it is important to always be open minded to improving the flow of work, but there are limits. Personally, I am happy that we have so many choices, even if I will not use many of them. At least it allows me to match the app or program to the task at hand, rather than try and make one program do everything. Do I still CRIMP, yes. Do I still use paper, yes. have I fallen in love with an app of late, no. But perhaps the searching and trialing helps alleviate some of the drudge of the work? I often say that I wish for my beloved ECCO, but I suspect what I am really saying is that I wish for the days when I was not constantly bombarded with endless email messages, but link to SharePoint site and folders. I take heart in that a Microsoft worker I know mentioned that he and his teams never used SharePoint; they were constantly moving from project to project and they would have ended up being on far too many sites as time passed.

--Ken

Another, related article, from the LA Review of Books:

Hard Times: Martin Hägglund’s “This Life” and the Pomodoro Technique
By Alexa Hazel

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/time-management-on-the-pomodoro-technique-and-martin-hagglunds-this-life/

Great example of cherrypicking quotes and characters and data to build an unsupported claim, namely that workers need to be told more what to do.

Merlin has always been a smart, clever, neurotic, hard-charging, opinionated guy who has repeatedly burned out on various theories and plans and websites. (He must have a dozen separate abandoned topic sites besides 43Folders.)

I was disappointed by Newport's polemic.

Luhmann wrote:

Another, related article, from the LA Review of Books:

Hard Times: Martin Hägglund’s “This Life” and the
Pomodoro Technique
By Alexa Hazel

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/time-management-on-the-pomodoro-technique-and-martin-hagglunds-this-life/

Well, there is a PT cycle of my life I'll never get back. I suspect that Ms. Hazel must have been paid by the word for that piece, and I am surprised I did not see any mention of mother's milk leading to heroin somewhere in there. I am guessing that she could have picked any object or productivity tool and written that piece. Perhaps I am too pragmatic for that much philosophy, but it was not a piece that called to me in any way shape or form. But, I am sure it might call to some folks, so I am just going to say that I am not her target audience and leave it at that.

--Ken

Thanks for the article – I was most amused!

Yes, deciding how best to manage tasks of all kinds is definitely a losing game. Not least because there doesn’t appear to be one single system that works beautifully for everyone.

My wife is a good example: she’s a very busy woman, running several businesses and desperate to manage her lengthy to-do list efficiently. She’s tried about every task management app on the planet, and every time, she returns (with a sigh of relief) to her paper-based system (which is a classic roll-over system). She’s always been an adherent of the “one-touch” approach, and on the whole, manages to implement it remarkably well, so in her case, the roll-over system appears to work.

But recently, she tried Todoist and was so impressed, she decided to use it (with me, so we could share our to-do lists; always convenient!). After a couple of months, she’s (with much regret) abandoned it, and again, her palpable relief at returning to her paper-based system is… intriguing.

I know I couldn’t use a paper-based system (or at least, not exclusively), but I increasingly believe that pure task management apps are not the answer. Not least because they generally treat tasks as “done” or “not done” (pace kanban-based apps, which are slightly more flexible).

I think apps that combine extensive note-taking with tasks are more practical, but defining the “best” user experience for such apps is remarkably difficult, because people really do have different ways of perceiving relationships. The quarrels (sorry: carefully and sympathetically reasoned arguments) my wife and I have over spreadsheets provide an interesting case study: we both have extensive business experience, we both have very different ways of structuring spreadsheets, and each occasionally finds the other’s approach totally baffling. Humans, eh?

So for me, it’s back (with, yes, a sigh of relief) to NotePlan…

Cheers!
Bill

I personally find the computer based GTD just doesn't work for me. Too much tinkering, plus you cannot view your lists at a glance. I use an A5 Black & Red notebook and follow Mark Forster's Final Version Perfected (http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2015/5/21/the-final-version-perfected-fvp.html He has some great ideas on his site about GTD.

I found that using paper helps me to use my calendar better (only things needing done on the day get put in); which is also a paper based system. I used ot have reminders and alarms going off all the time. I have about 5 sides of A5 full of tasks which I can scan in less than a minute. Can't do that on a computer, tablet or smartphone. I also find that writing seems to help me remember my tasks better in general.

I just us one long flat list. Dates written next to the task/project if due dates are needed. List starts at the front, project pages start from the back. I did try an iPad (12.9), but there's just something about not being able to scan and digest on a computer. Could be my age! I don't use context, tags, start dates or anything else. This saves me sooo much time!

Heh, love it! *Almost* sounds tempting… ;-)

Thanks for the Mark Forster link.

Simon wrote:

I personally find the computer based GTD just doesn't work for me. Too
much tinkering, plus you cannot view your lists at a glance. I use an A5
Black & Red notebook and follow Mark Forster's Final Version Perfected
(http://markforster.squarespace.com/blog/2015/5/21/the-final-version-perfected-fvp.html
He has some great ideas on his site about GTD.

I found that using paper helps me to use my calendar better (only things
needing done on the day get put in); which is also a paper based system.
I used ot have reminders and alarms going off all the time. I have about
5 sides of A5 full of tasks which I can scan in less than a minute.
Can't do that on a computer, tablet or smartphone. I also find that
writing seems to help me remember my tasks better in general.

I just us one long flat list. Dates written next to the task/project if
due dates are needed. List starts at the front, project pages start from
the back. I did try an iPad (12.9), but there's just something about not
being able to scan and digest on a computer. Could be my age! I don't
use context, tags, start dates or anything else. This saves me sooo much
time!

MadaboutDana wrote:

Yes, deciding how best to manage tasks of all kinds is definitely a
losing game. Not least because there doesn’t appear to be one
single system that works beautifully for everyone.

Cheers!
Bill

I agree. In particular, as the task-management application market has blossomed, there's been little acknowledgement (for example, by reviewers or bloggers) of the fact that different apps (or paper-based systems) suit some occupations or work-styles, but don't suit others. For example, nowadays I find start- or defer- dates in some form very desirable in organising my work (which tends to involve longer-duration tasks), while others I know find start-dates simply distracting.

Incidentally, at one time I found Mark Forster's task-management ideas intriguing. I also admired his path to devising them. Trouble was, he seemed to keep refining them (as the name of his latest system appears to hint). I was too lazy to keep up.

Wow, that Pomodoro article wandered a bit, didn't it?

Not that there isn't precedent in some of my own work, and culinary tasks can sometimes benefit from exactly that organizational technique. Just add some tomato sauce and a few meatballs, and that identical structure makes a nice bowl of spaghetti.

One of my most powerful problem solving techniques is to walk away from challenges. I often work to get something finished, then wake up the next morning with a solution in a fraction of the code. My inner nerd is a pretty hard working guy. Sometimes I need to get out of his way.

Kind of like, "Ok, boss, what you need here is heuristic recursion leveraging reentrant self-modifying predictive code. The answer is at the end of about 30 miles of rough fire roads. I'll crank up my dirt bike and come back with what you need."

I wish I were kidding, but I find it's best to just keep my methods secret.

The basic fault in GTD was the misuse of the term "Context" for "To Do Context" (instead of "Doings"?), "contexts" being the (in case, multiple) contexts in which some "item", some "sub-tree" could appear. On the other hand, Allen made millions, probably even multi-millions, by his idea that even disparate "context works" should be grouped on their own whenever they didn't take more than some (2, 3?) minutes to spend on them, and with all due respect to "critics" of all boards, that' some achievement... all the rest being blah-blah.

And for practial things: MLO is deemed, by some, to not be without "bugs" (even losing your "work", some guys say), and it's without formatted text (i.e. it's "plain text", even in late 2020)... and then, and albeit acknowledging that MLO might be the "best" GTD applic, NOBODY out there ever resolved the problem that, be it MLO or for any other "TTPM (time-task-and-more-or-less-personal-project-management) system", you'd need all "the files, the folders, the core matter" within.

As said, coders are conceptual illiterates, and that, up to now, very unfortunately comprises "outliner" and "IM" (information management) coders.

Sorry, I meant, for about 98 p.c. of them. Sorry again.

While finding the perfect time management app is, I suggested, a losing game, I’m always impressed by apps that make the effort to appeal to EVERYBODY!

Take the humble TickTick, for example. It started off as a simple web-based to-do app. Nothing complicated, apart from a rather useful ability to convert tasks from lists of to-dos into a written screed.

Since then, however, it has steadily evolved. Over a period of around 4 years, it’s gained: macOS/iOS (and I think Windows/Android) apps, nested subtasks, sharing, Calendar view, folders, (excellent) markdown support, separate notes (as opposed to tasks), attachments, tags, sections, summary reports, colour filters, customisable smart lists, and a running log of activities (created/modified/deleted). And most recently, a (rather good) kanban view.

It wouldn’t surprise me if GANTT charts were on the horizon. You’ll find a subset of the above list of features in excellent task managers like Things, Todoist, NotePlan etc., but you won’t find all of them.

For a very modest subscription, it’s one of the most comprehensive task managers around. We’re re-examining it as a possible collaborative platform, having been impressed (but then somewhat overwhelmed) by Pagico. Which is very good, but – what’s the fairest summary? – too fussy, perhaps. TickTick isn’t beautiful (although it’s not ugly); it “just works”.

But on personal stuff, they’ll have to prise NotePlan from my cold, dead hands… ;-)

The humble TickTick is a Chinese app with a nominal California headquarters, from what I can tell. Given what we've learned about Chinese governmental influence and access with social, video, drone and other apps, I have a lot of hesitance with keeping my data in a cloud and company that isn't strictly in my country, with its protections, or isn't allowing me to use the cloud service of my choice.

I feel a lot more comfortable using an inferior tool like Microsoft To Do, or a more competitive product like Todoist, which is headquartered in Barcelona and supports EU privacy rules.

True, the Chinese provenance has always been my reservation.

But I really have to wonder if anything I put on TickTick could be remotely interesting to some Chinese lurker obsessively collecting data. Maybe. Or maybe not.

If the Chinese have tasked their intelligence community with documenting what I have on my to-do list for next Tuesday ... I'm okay with that. Anything that really, really matters I don't put on the cloud; as for the other 98% of my life, just ask.

jaslar wrote:

The heart of the article, I thought, was this:

"Consider instead a system that externalizes work. Following the lead of
software developers, we might use virtual task boards, where every task
is represented by a card that specifies who is doing the work, and is
pinned under a column indicating its status. With a quick glance, you
can now ascertain everything going on within your team and ask
meaningful questions about how much work any one person should tackle at
a time. With this setup, optimization becomes possible."

Combining this thread with 'The demise of native coded apps' thread I feel I should point out that https://www.hyperplan.com does the above and runs as a native[1] app on both Windows and Mac. ;0)

Andy Brice
[1] Well 99% native, it is built on the Qt library rather than directly on the the Windows/Mac libraries.

MadaboutDana wrote:

True, the Chinese provenance has always been my reservation.

But I really have to wonder if anything I put on TickTick could be
remotely interesting to some Chinese lurker obsessively collecting data.
Maybe. Or maybe not.

My own view is that the Chinese provenance is a red herring. Data online is the issue - if it's really, really important that you keep it really, really confidential, just don't do it online.

Also, let's not forget that many non-Chinese companies have connections with China - via investment, or supply chain or whatever. We live in a increasingly connected world and it's beyond the capability of all but a few to be able to function with absolute confidence that none of our connections go to places we'd rather they didn't.

Full disclosure - I use TickTick, but I don't care how knows the lamb bhuna ingredients I'm shopping for today. I use Notion and Roam, among others, but I don't put client data, or anything personally confidential in either

NickG wrote:

if it’s really, really important that you keep it really, really confidential, just don’t do it online.

'Confidential' should not be the standard, any more than the argument that ad companies may track you as much as they want (which ignores the considerable dossiers built up on people), or that you don't care if the government listens in on lil' innocent you.

As far as China goes all sorts of data has been exfiltrated to China to winnow out whom in the USA to track, so just because you're boring doesn't mean other damage isn't being done. And drone and Strava users have been forbidden from using their devices near military bases because non-condifential info is nevertheless militarily valuable to the Chinese military.

We see the clampdown China has on its own citizens, disallowing VPNs and requiring licenses for all mobile apps (to which they can access data), and we do know about Chinese efforts to collect swathes of data, confidential or not, about American, Korean, Japanese and European citizens.

If a Chinese company wants to sell me a product into which I'd pour personal information, I'd need that data to be held somewhere politically neutral (or at least not in China). TickTick is a nice product, but there are a large number of competing products which offer much better data policies.

satis wrote:

If a Chinese company wants to sell me a product into which I'd pour
personal information,

Where was your computer built? And your smartphone?

Manufacturing location of hardware is irrelevant to my personal data... unless you have some insight into data exfiltration somehow implanted into those billions of devices.

satis wrote:

Manufacturing location of hardware is irrelevant to my personal data...
unless you have some insight into data exfiltration somehow implanted
into those billions of devices.

No, I haven't.
But spearfishing by implanting eavesdropping hardware in computers delivered to a particular person is something that has happened. At least, that's what crypto experts such as Bruce Schneier say.

A couple of focused state-sponsored attacks on a handful of server machines has absolutely nothing to do with what we're discussing here, however.

I wonder if those who are so worried about what a Chinese company can do with their data, if they remember why Edward Snowden has been a refugee in Russia for years. Tip: It's not about China