I'm in search of a web-based outliner for text editing. Not looking for all-purpose productivity software with cutesy bullet icons that take up a lot of space. No checkboxes. No complicated multiple columns or tables. No fake corkboard graphics. No multi-stream tools for organizing characters while writing screenplays or novels.

Just simple text editing, with easily collapsible, movable nodes. Just the text, folks.

However, I do need nice, tight indentations, to fit as much text in one line as possible. I've seen lots of outliners with really wide, non-adjustable indentations, and that's no good for me. I also need tight line spacing. The best one I've seen so far is Checkvist, but it puts so much white space between each line, I could fit a whole line in between each line. That makes it unusable for me.

Any suggestions?

One possibility:

http://littleoutliner.com/

Wouldn't Dynalist or WorkFlowy do the job?

I clicked the link but it asks me to log into Twitter to continue. I don't use Twitter.

Tiggerlou wrote:

The best one I've seen so far is Checkvist, but it
puts so much white space between each line, I could fit a whole line in
between each line. That makes it unusable for me.

I was going to suggest Checkvist ;). For the presentation, Checkvist allows you to put your own CSS, so you can make it use a smaller font, or less padding, or whatever you need to make a better use of your screen real estate while taking into account what kind of content you have. Also see the page below for ideas and examples.

https://checkvist.com/checklists/486715

‑Alex

https://vimflowy.netlify.app
https://github.com/WuTheFWasThat/vimflowy

Dr. Andus, thanks SO much for your suggestion to look at Dynalist and Workflowy. I spent some time today checking them both out and I'm absolutely sold on Dynalist.

To start with, Dynalist has **nested folders**. Aahhhhh (cue the choirs of angels). Given how I need to convert hundreds of documents into the new outliner, the one long list of documents in Workflowy would be a tangled mess. I'd have a hard time locating documents, even with tagging and searching. I love using both tags and folders, so having both options in Dynalist makes me happy.

There are other features that sold me on Dynalist, most of which make it possible to fit more text into one line. Customized list density AND smaller point size AND smaller fonts AND removing checkboxes AND narrow document layout (ahh....more choirs of angels). There are other features I wasn't expecting, but they look very interesting. Flat search, colored highlighting, bookmarks. The mindmap view might even get me to try that out. I don't have a use for a 'font for dyslexia' but, gosh, it does my heart good to know that exists for somebody out there :-)

Yes, Dynalist is twice the price of Workflowy, but nested folders were a non-negotiable. I wouldn't seriously consider any outliner that doesn't have that. Meanwhile, the several features in Dynalist that help me condense text on the page make it even more attractive. Oohhh and I can customize my own keyboard shortcuts. Yay, yay....

I'm sold. Thanks so much for your help!

P.S. Alessandro Vernet, thanks for the suggestion to use CSS on Checkvist. But I'm a lowly non-techy person. I'd rather exercise my grey matter on the text itself, rather than on learning a skill I don't have any use for otherwise.

Just when I'd been happily creating daily notes in DevonThink, I read this thread and start thinking about outliners again. I've created trials in both Workflowy and Dynalist and I'm preferring Dynalist to date.

I can see this working nicely for a daily note system, as well as possibly everything else.

Reality says I'm creating another location and further data fragmentation, but CRIMP - right?

I've got data in other places too, specifically Evernote. I've been using that happily for years, as well as Clarisworks. Yehhh... good old Clarisworks 5.0 from 1997. I've been so attached to that software, I've been putting off updating my operating system out of Windows 7 just so I could keep using it. I've got easily hundreds of outline documents in Clarisworks. I've converted some of them into Evernote documents, but its outline capabilities are pretty pathetic.

There was no way I'd give up outliners in general. Ever since a friend introduced me to an outliner he designed in the late 80's, I *think* in outline form. So I've used them to organize performance setlists, book notes, public speaking notes, comparisons of various products I've considered buying, records of computer specs and software codes, personal finance, etc etc. Everything I've put through my scanner has gone into Clarisworks.

Every so often in the last 10-15 years, I've poked my head out to see if there's a good alternative to it. I haven't seen anything that looked good, then went right back to Clarisworks. But enough is enough. Postponing an upgrade of my OS like this is just silly, so here I am again.

Feeling good about trying out Dynalist, and grateful for the recommendations. I'm actually looking forward to converting those documents now, after 10-15 years of dreading that as a chore, and that says a lot!

Okay, Drewster. You're gonna have to translate the acronym CRIMP for me. I looked it up and can't find anything that makes sense.

I don't suppose you meant to say, "Community Road Improvement and Maintenance Project".

Lucas, I did look up Vimflowy. OMG, the indentations for each successive lines are huge.
Sorry, that wouldn't work for me, but thanks anyway.

Tiggerlou wrote:

Okay, Drewster. You're gonna have to translate the acronym CRIMP for me.
I looked it up and can't find anything that makes sense.

It's an insider joke here (see the link below the Search field to the left):

CRIMP stands for a make-believe malady called compulsive-reactive information management purchasing. Symptoms include:

- never being satisfied with your current system of information management
- continuously being on the look-out for something newer and better
- purchasing every new PIM program you learn about
- and secretly hoping you won’t find the perfect PIM, because then you’d have to stop looking for a better one

So, when someone speaks of succumbing to his or her CRIMP, it means acknowledging that they’ve purchased another PIM program even though they really don’t think they need it.

Franz Grieser wrote:

CRIMP stands for a make-believe malady called compulsive-reactive
information management purchasing.

I agree with everything you said Franz, except that it's make-believe! I feel I truly have it!!! :-)

Drewster wrote:

I agree with everything you said Franz, except that it's make-believe! I
feel I truly have it!!! :-)

That's what psychologists call "denial" ;-)

Franz Grieser wrote:

Tiggerlou wrote:
>Okay, Drewster. You're gonna have to translate the acronym CRIMP for
me.
>I looked it up and can't find anything that makes sense.

It's an insider joke here (see the link below the Search field to the
left):

CRIMP stands for a make-believe malady called compulsive-reactive
information management purchasing. Symptoms include:

- never being satisfied with your current system of information
management
- continuously being on the look-out for something newer and better
- purchasing every new PIM program you learn about
- and secretly hoping you won’t find the perfect PIM, because then
you’d have to stop looking for a better one

So, when someone speaks of succumbing to his or her CRIMP, it means
acknowledging that they’ve purchased another PIM program even
though they really don’t think they need it.

That is HILARIOUS!

Apparently, I have a particularly strong immunity to this ailment. Consider the fact that I've continued to make daily use of Clarisworks 5.0, which hasn't been updated since 1997. I've resisted changing to anything else, because I've been convinced that nothing will be as good as Clarisworks. I still haven't seen any software as full-featured and customizable for my purposes, not even Dynalist. The only reason I'm switching is because I need to upgrade my operating system, away from Windows7.

Because I love Clarisworks so much, I've just stayed put. I haven't spent a dime on new outliner software in 23 years.

It appears I have another ailment entirely: PISA. Persistent Intractable Software Inertia.

Tiggerlou wrote:

It appears I have another ailment entirely: PISA. Persistent Intractable
Software Inertia.

We can cure that, too.

You have indeed --by providing kind assistance and advice.
Helping me move on to software that is NOT old enough to vote............

Tiggerlou wrote:

Lucas, I did look up Vimflowy. OMG, the indentations for each successive
lines are huge.
Sorry, that wouldn't work for me, but thanks anyway.

True. I had mistakenly assumed that you were already aware of the big players like Dynalist, so I was looking for niche options.

That's fine. Thanks!

Lucas wrote:

https://vimflowy.netlify.app
https://github.com/WuTheFWasThat/vimflowy

Vimflowy is amazing! Thank you for the pointer. I'd love it if the authors were to take it and also offer it through a subscription service, so they could make it their full time job and have more time to improve the product, market it, and provide support.

‑Alex

Tiggerlou wrote:

P.S. Alessandro Vernet, thanks for the suggestion to use CSS on
Checkvist. But I'm a lowly non-techy person. I'd rather exercise my grey
matter on the text itself, rather than on learning a skill I don't have
any use for otherwise.

I totally understand, and I'm glad that, with Dynalist, you found something that works for you. It is a great product, developed by a great team.

‑Alex

Although I use dynalist for daily todos and some reference lists, I still use Ecco Pro when I have to churn through a bunch of stuff for work.

Franz Grieser wrote:

Tiggerlou wrote:
>It appears I have another ailment entirely: PISA. Persistent
Intractable
>Software Inertia.

We can cure that, too.