New Outliner/Roam Clone

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Posted by loose wire
Aug 10, 2020 at 12:53 AM

Hi, I’ve tried to keep a list here, but in part it’s a list of lists: http://www.loosewireblog.com/2020/07/directory-of-note-taking-apps.html

washere wrote:
This looked good to me so I downloaded it when this thread was made, but
>haven’t had time to play with it.
> >Would be nice to have all the Roam Research alts in one place, like
>Luhmann’s Roam Research-like knowledge manages thread. But the links
>might get buried in discussion.
> >Or even better a fast one page blog (blogger or WordPress). Or even
>faster a pastebin page which takes no time at all (to edit needs
>registering, can setup a fast email account eg: mail.com) or other
>pastebin alternatives. Then can make a new thread here with that
>blog/pastebin link in OP, listing all the Roam-like alts. I lost count
>how many there are now.
> >Hope to play with this one next weekend.

Posted by washere
Aug 10, 2020 at 11:51 AM

loose wire wrote:
Hi, I’ve tried to keep a list here, but in part it’s a list of lists:
>http://www.loosewireblog.com/2020/07/directory-of-note-taking-apps.html

That’s nice. The correct definition would be I guess apps with Backlinks & Transclusion, but most are using Roam Research Alternatives and Competitors is a good equivalent for Alternatives.

Dynalist added Backlinks as discussed here but I am not sure workflowy has yet.

There are many more like org-roam, Athens Research, logseq etc and several wiki ones too like tiddlywiki ikiwiki ..... No one is maintaining an active list of apps with Backlinks online though. Most lists are dated and incomplete. No one is maintaining an actively up to date list. That was my point. Pity.

A better phrase for Backlinking might be bi-directional linking, but that’s not important.

I had roam team’s offerings since early days but don’t like them and stopped playing with it. I play with Obsidian though when have a few minutes, though as commercial very that might be restricted in future as a free local version with limits on features.

As I said before, a free open source version will emerge on GitHub and a mighty team will volunteer due to it’s popularity as with other popular open source wares, ensuring it’s mortality. But this might take a few years.

This logseq, Athens Research and foambubble which is also open source on GitHub are worth keeping an eye on. But I suspect we might see a completely new one on GitHub in the next year or two with early incomplete versions that will be the one in three or four years time, it’s wait and see now, who knows, let’s see.

Thanks again.

https://nesslabs.com/roam-research-alternatives

https://www.reddit.com/r/selfhosted/comments/f0z6yd/open_source_alternatives_to_roam_research/

https://www.outlinersoftware.com/topics/viewt/9033/10

Posted by washere
Aug 10, 2020 at 12:50 PM

>>commercial very
commercial version

Posted by Luhmann
Aug 11, 2020 at 09:28 AM

For me, “block referencing” is as important as backlinks and transclusion. This is for me where markdown based Roam competitors fall short, since the best they can do is reference a section by the header. There are very few options that have all three: block reference, backlinks, and transclusion. It is interesting to look at the obsidian forms in this regard. Those who have come from zettelkasten are quite satisified, since they tend to take short notes, thus each note is a block. However, those who come from Roam, tend to be frustrated at the lack of granularity within large documents. There are some very interesting discussions on the Obsidian forums about various workarounds, but I’m not very hopeful that they will ever have true block referencing on the paragraph level like Roam.

Posted by JakeBernsteinWA
Aug 11, 2020 at 07:41 PM

I’d be curious to read somewhere about why block referencing is so important. I’m sure it is…I just don’t understand it. Thanks to any who have some resources on this!

Luhmann wrote:
For me, “block referencing” is as important as backlinks and
>transclusion. This is for me where markdown based Roam competitors fall
>short, since the best they can do is reference a section by the header.
>There are very few options that have all three: block reference,
>backlinks, and transclusion. It is interesting to look at the obsidian
>forms in this regard. Those who have come from zettelkasten are quite
>satisified, since they tend to take short notes, thus each note is a
>block. However, those who come from Roam, tend to be frustrated at the
>lack of granularity within large documents. There are some very
>interesting discussions on the Obsidian forums about various
>workarounds, but I’m not very hopeful that they will ever have true
>block referencing on the paragraph level like Roam.

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