Yo folks,

Re: Notebag (macOS only pro tem)

Yes, I recently took advantage of an offer by Mariner Software to buy a macOS app, Notebag, for a reduced price. It looked decidedly interesting (not least because it supports wikilinks and backlinks, as well as tagging).

It’s been a pleasant discovery. The developer has taken the unusual step of providing a roadmap (inventively hosted on Trello at https://trello.com/b/AJkNjCqP/notebag-public-roadmap and the app is already very polished. It’s a bit like Bear, but optimised for what he calls “projects” (in practice, hashtags; Notebag supports hierarchical hashtags, too). The backlink function in particular is very slick.

There’s a 7-day trial available on the website (https://notebag.app and even the full price is very modest. There are still things that need improving, but they’re all on the roadmap, as is the promise of mobile apps (critical for an app of this kind).

Cheers!
Bill

Yes, I've had it since the week came out, yesterday users got email 2nd update released with new features, one major was my suggestion, will update today.

Another Roam wannabe (without all the Zettlekasten cant in its marketing material, thank goodness). Borrowed from Obsidian some of the look and feel. FWIW, Obsidian and Dynalist (same crew) have been using Trello boards for their roadmaps since their relative inceptions.

Notebag looks like a one-time license on the face of it but seems to act like a subscription -- $16.99 USD but that only includes one-year's updates. This is a bit like the Agenda pricing model.

Between Notebag and Obsidian, I'll go with Obsidian. Exactly the same features as Notebag plus a lot more already delivered or on the roadmap.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Yo folks,

Re: Notebag (macOS only pro tem)

Yes, I recently took advantage of an offer by Mariner Software to buy a
macOS app, Notebag, for a reduced price. It looked decidedly interesting
(not least because it supports wikilinks and backlinks, as well as
tagging).

It’s been a pleasant discovery. The developer has taken the
unusual step of providing a roadmap (inventively hosted on Trello at
https://trello.com/b/AJkNjCqP/notebag-public-roadmap and the app is
already very polished. It’s a bit like Bear, but optimised for
what he calls “projects” (in practice, hashtags; Notebag
supports hierarchical hashtags, too). The backlink function in
particular is very slick.

There’s a 7-day trial available on the website
(https://notebag.app and even the full price is very modest. There are
still things that need improving, but they’re all on the roadmap,
as is the promise of mobile apps (critical for an app of this kind).

Cheers!
Bill

Are you sure. The developer is Austrian. Mariner software is headquartered in Minneapolis. I have been on Mariner softwares website and can find not mention of it, although the developer appears to be selling it directly from his website.

Most don't see behind apps' blurbs. But all depends on if it is closed source or FOSS + who is the dev(s). This dev puts out serial apps which are then abandoned and does not have much time between working freelance and travelling. He's trying his luck with this one one the back or roam's hype to see if it catches big time.

Apparently some are selling/buying Roam trials after it closed, i tried it some months ago, didn't like it. Also in this class of Roameos, which is what i call them, you need more than one dev & major funding of a couple of coders at least. Which is why Obsidian is doing best & i check it's new features sometimes. But ultimately Obs too will be a nasty commercial cloud PITA.

Not knowing who the owners might eventually sell the data &or company to, might be someone in a country with no legal data oversight or even an anon shell company offshore. The biggest loss would be not just the data or the more important: personal data structures developed, but the huge time invested over the years. At least with MS Google Apple Dropbox, they are too big to be sold off rogue like that,

Obs forced roam to offer local too as opposed to his creepy insistence re: his failing basement server syncs & in other ways too, competition is good. Long term, one or two years+, need another team of FOSS devs to do a good job of it, non commercial, this might take a few years but will come as is early days. Right now Athens research & org-roam (orgy flave, not GUI) have made a start but we ultimately need a team doing a good job of it, open source on github.

> He’s trying his luck with this one one the back or roam’s hype to see if it catches big time.

He’s trying his luck with this one on the back of roam’s hype to see if it catches big time.

Well, it’s a nice app and he’s responsive to suggestions, so enough with the cutting criticism already! Maybe he has picked up on Roam/Obsidian - good for him: it’s not long ago that people were lamenting the decline of the Zettelkasten-style app with wikilinks/backlinks. Now there’s an increasing number of them!

As for Mariner Software - nothing mysterious there, Mariner regularly organises sales of other people’s software; they’re not really a developer themselves, they either sublicense stuff from developers (e.g. MacJournal) or simply sell third-party software (e.g. Notebag and a whole bunch of other non-Mariner apps). You’ll also find Notebag being promoted on the BoingBoing website, for example. Again, this doesn’t mean the developer is some kind of tricksy scumbag, it means he’s being sensible and selling via multiple channels. Jeez, people.

Cheers,
Bill

Main point remains: to compete with Roameos like Obsidian, you need at least one funded coder full-time & let's face it, realistically more. Or if non-commercial, a serious team of several coders part-time on github. Otherwise not in the same class as roam or obsidian. Stone cold fact. Sunday solo coding hobby? Something different. Let's get real.

Also, Not responsive at all, nor any response at all in many cases that mention that online.
+
Just facts, serial abandonware apps to his name, & his own words: not any serious time for apps (more than one app) development since freelancing to pay bills + serious social media time. And oh yes, he says even less time in future as he's backpacking to Philippines soon, again. Not even the best choice for repeated yearly backpacking Asian destination, as many could tell him.

Ok, time to put on my rose tinted glasses again, and get screwed again. Peace out man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmYi5u9BhtI

Well, you may be right, but I’m quite impressed that versions are available for macOS, Windows and Linux.

That suggests he’s fairly serious.

And there are plenty of individual developers out there producing seriously heavyweight software (Pierre? Eduard of NotePlan fame?), so I think it’s important not to weigh in against a particular app “just” because it’s got one developer behind it. True, there have been many disappointments. Equally true: some of these one-person apps evolve into major team-supported apps because they’re that good (again, NotePlan is an interesting example here; Eduard is no longer all on his own).

Also worth considering: quite a few heavyweight apps have vanished off the face of the planet *despite* having large teams behind them (or maybe because - I’m a great believer in the unadulterated vision of the solo developer… yeah, go on, call me a Romantic…)

Cheers,
Bill

Sorry, folks, should have made that clear: Notebag is actually available for Windows, Mac and Linux.

MadaboutDana wrote:

Yo folks,

Re: Notebag (macOS only pro tem)

Yes, I recently took advantage of an offer by Mariner Software to buy a
macOS app, Notebag, for a reduced price. It looked decidedly interesting
(not least because it supports wikilinks and backlinks, as well as
tagging).

It’s been a pleasant discovery. The developer has taken the
unusual step of providing a roadmap (inventively hosted on Trello at
https://trello.com/b/AJkNjCqP/notebag-public-roadmap and the app is
already very polished. It’s a bit like Bear, but optimised for
what he calls “projects” (in practice, hashtags; Notebag
supports hierarchical hashtags, too). The backlink function in
particular is very slick.

There’s a 7-day trial available on the website
(https://notebag.app and even the full price is very modest. There are
still things that need improving, but they’re all on the roadmap,
as is the promise of mobile apps (critical for an app of this kind).

Cheers!
Bill

Bill, i agree with some of your points.

But sole developer was not my point. I've having almost no time for it was, as he says often. Specially competing with big teams apps trying to emulate.

Also good sole devs don't create serial abandonware apps, they put years of SERIOUS work into an app, every week, as we know some.

As for names disappearing, that's my point. A big hit open source app will not die easy because:

Open source > IFF Big hit popular app > other devs join in &or Takeover


If the dev drops out for whatever personal reasons. Anyway, money talks, I was one of the first to buy the app. So I hope it keeps going, nice toy now & wish the dev the best & safe journeys. Hopefully he'll travel to other countries in Asia too. That's all.

> I've having

Having

I suspect the Mac / Windows / Linux probably strategy is probably due to Notebag being built with the Electron framework. It's a good deal for developers and users. Obsidian also entered the market with Mac / Windows / Linux platform versions.

BoingBoing is also offering a discount price:

https://store.boingboing.net/sales/notebag?utm_source=boingboing.net&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=notebag&utm_term=scsf-411063&utm_content=a0x1P000004seXxQAI&scsonar=1

Offer ends in 3 days.

Personally, FSNotes or Bear are better for me. Have much the same features and also support iOS.

BoingBoing is merely a reseller for StackSocial, garnering a commission. (Lots of places are, from Macworld to Slashdot).

https://stacksocial.com/sales/notebag

The developer makes it clear that this is a side project for him:

"My name is Richard and I’m primarily a freelance web developer. Notebag is my current side project. I do all the coding, marketing, design and everything else. If you want to have a chat, reach out to me on Twitter"

Nothing wrong with that! Though it's wise to be cautious...

Hey everyone!

I was told that Notebag would be posted here, so I decided to check in and see what you had to say. Thanks to all the people who gave positive feedback and tried to defend me! :)

To address some of the things posted here:

* Yes, I am a solo developer.
* Yes, Notebag is still very much a side project that I do next to my other work.
* Yes, I am currently selling the app as part of a promotion with Stackcommerce/StackSocial.
* Yes, the license includes one year of updates. This is like other apps such as Sketch. If you don't want to, I won't force you pay for another year of updates down the road, nor do I have the ability to auto-charge you. You can always just keep the latest version that you have installed and it'll keep working. I consider this to be a fair arrangement, but anyone is free to disagree.

From my point of view I didn't try to copy Roam or Obsidian or feel that I'm following some hype train. I wasn't even aware of Roam until I saw Anne-Laure Le Cunff talk about it. As for Obsidian, I was made aware of it on my own launch day. I added features as people requested them and they seemed useful. The linking feature was part of that. For anyone who's curious to check, there's a few tweets where you can follow my idea finding process for the 1.0 version of the app:

https://twitter.com/pretzelhds/status/1226198239289978880
https://twitter.com/pretzelhds/status/1235257841088368640
https://twitter.com/pretzelhds/status/1236402270373318667

What Notebag originally was and still is to this day, is a note taking app that I build in my ideal image. I wanted something I would enjoy using every day. Some other people wanted it too, so I made it purchasable and gathered some input from other users. Everyone is welcome to check out the trial and see for themselves whether they like the app enough to support me. And the more support I get, the more I can re-focus my time to bring cool features to it. :)

As i predicted a few months ago, despite protestations disagreeing, this would be Ca$hed-in on fast with fake long term commitments and then would soon be abandonware.

No use investing precious time, strategic long term on any abandonware, worst yet this never went beyond prototype.

It is now abandoned, record time, worst quickie cash & abandon job ever seen, only lasted a few months.

Maybe someone can email him again to show up again. I bet the person who emailed him never bought it himself.

Cheers,
Washere!

I couldn't find what Washere was talking about at first, but turned out to be this tweet:

https://twitter.com/pretzelhds/status/1321205962682892289

Wow, that’s a tad cynical, especially since he’s open-sourced the code – and is offering refunds.

Washere, you frequently make nasty, knee-jerk comments about developers. They detract from your many sensible comments about models, approaches and solutions.

There are already far too many people online who take delight in attacking others. It would be really, really nice if people would stop and think before attacking, and maybe give those others the benefit of the doubt. As a culture, we have lost the skill of what Frank Herbert in “Dune” describes as spannungsbogen – the pause between thinking about doing something and actually doing it.

Maybe it’s time to think about developing a more sophisticated sense of spannungsbogen…?

washere wrote:

As i predicted a few months ago, despite protestations disagreeing, this
would be Ca$hed-in on fast with fake long term commitments and then
would soon be abandonware.

No use investing precious time, strategic long term on any abandonware,
worst yet this never went beyond prototype.

It is now abandoned, record time, worst quickie cash & abandon job ever
seen, only lasted a few months.

Maybe someone can email him again to show up again. I bet the person who
emailed him never bought it himself.

Cheers,
Washere!

The developer has also offered his support to anybody interested in further developing the open-source code.

His final, now open-sourced executable is available for Windows, Mac and Linux here: https://github.com/pretzelhands/notebag/releases

MadaboutDana wrote:

It would be really, really nice if people would stop
and think before attacking, and maybe give those others the benefit of
the doubt.

I thought the same. Maybe the bashing happens because many users are not aware of how much work software development really is - how time-consuming it is and how much burden it means for the mental and physical health, family life etc. of the developer, and how quickly burn-out can set in, even if you start a project with great ambitions and euphoria. The guilt you feel when you can't deliver what you promised and can't keep up with the continually changing and evolving technology and user wishes and demands is enormous and is real.

This developer did the right thing to stop the project before it was too late and ruined his life and disappointed more users, he was completely open, even offered a refund and open-sourced his work. He is obviously not somebody who simply wants to make quick cash. You can blame him for being too naive, believing he could build something like that as a one-man team and a side project. But yes, sometimes we are over-enthusiastic about an idea, and without such euphoric phasis, no innovation would ever happen. I can totally relate to him and his situation. He really does not deserve such bashing and being lumped in with other people on the Internet who are trying to make quick money without doing any work. Look at the open-source repository. These are many hours of hard work.

By the time I downloaded and opened this app, it was already open source. Just looking at it, I got the impression that it was in the same genre as Bear and Ulysses. I haven't been able to put either one of those to good use.

@madaboutdana

1) Bill, you accuse me falsely of attacking devs, without quotes. I oppose only subscription models by those with fine print legal jargon that makes them owners of people's data. Not all sub models. Even then, I never mentioned which devs by name or even project. That method, burying ownership of users' data in legal jargon fine print is not honorable. They can already sell that secretly to marketers and many do. And when ditching the brand, can sell it off to anyone who buys it. Registered as a company in any offshore territory with shady legal protection. Many here agreed with me. You're attacking all of us. BECAUSE many sell off data or the whole company. Wild false accusations by you doesn't change this needed vigilance needed.

2) I always say all devs should be supported. Serial hit and run ones are not devs IMHO and even then I've never mentioned any other person being as such. This is what you do though. False accusations and more....

3) On the previous page you made serious personal insults to me too. I grew up with real new age friends, traveling globally etc, lots of patience. Traveling much taught me who's genuine and who's in pain and acting and just needs to insult. So I don't mind. I sympathize, not get angry. So you're free to continue to insult me if you need to. You have my blessing.

4) There are many, not just on Twitter, who are asking him for refund. Why? Because he sold this some months ago promising a year of updates and support. Why is that important? Because he sold an alpha. Not even a beta or PR (pre release candidate). Not ethical conduct by devs which they don't do. And actually abandoned it after a couple of months, FIVE MONTHS AGO.
He only announced it yesterday.

5) He is not offering refund to many he sold with these false premises.
He is keeping the money.
You wouldn't refund a single person out of the many. Talk is cheap when serial money taking based on false premises takes place. Did you even buy this? You encouraged others to buy? I bought it before you posted this thread as I said. But I didn't post it here because I knew him....

6) How did I know some months ago this guy would take the money from numerous people, for a year's update and support is an alpha. And would run off? Make it abandonware very soon? Which you opposed vehemently, and falsely again and don't mention in your today's insulting post to me (typical evasion). I'd never said that about anyone. Nor have I ever read such prediction in 3 decades of in IT. Am I nostradamus? Do I have a magic crystal ball? How was I so spectacularly clairvoyant?

BECAUSE HE'S DONE THIS HIT & RUN BEFORE TOO.

He mentions 3 categories of reasons:

7) i) He feels guilty and psychologically under pressure because he sold something which was only a prototype with promises of fixing it with the basics at least + a year's update and support. And many whose money he took, were asking him soon after release this year why he's abandoned it FIVE MONTHS AGO?

Very quick fix,: Refund them.
Why doesn't he refund them? Because for months this year since launch, he's been laughing all the way to the bank everyday!
Known evasion tactic in such schemes and cases.

8) He says he needs the time:
TO TAKE UP SEVERAL NEW HOBBIES!
I'm sure the money he took under false premises & promises from many will fund those.
And his travels as he says.

9) He says he also needs the time:
TO DEVELOP A COUPLE OF OTHER CODING PROJECTS.
ie: Couple of more hit & run jobs in the pipeline.


Peace and love and all that jazz man.
Cheers!
Washere