Forum Posts Feed
Discussion of Roam-like Knowledge Managers
< Next Topic | Back to topic list | Previous Topic >
Posted by Luhmann
Apr 17, 2020 at 01:38 AM
Inter-note using the [[wikilinks]] syntax is an emergent standard in markdown and is supported by Obsidian among others. Files exported from Roam work fine in Obsidian, although I had to run a script to convert #tags to [[links]]. (But one can use either method in Roam.) Other apps, such as FSNotes and 1Writer seem to support this standard, but do a search rather than linking directly to a particular file.
Regarding JSON export, I think this might be more for internal use by Roam, to more reliably migrate Roam data from one database to another.
Of course, many other Roam features will break on export however, such as Roam’s query and embed syntax which are unique to Roam, so your point well taken, I just wanted to qualify it somewhat based on my experience.
Paul Korm wrote:
I experimented with export from Roam. It led me to consider that
>lock-in is going to be a major problem with Roam. The export of notes
>to markdown is minimally useful because all the inter-note linking is
>non-functional in the export. I reject the JSON export as unrealistic
>—I like most are not about to look for third-party software just to be
>able to recapture data from JSON. JSON is readable but entirely
>unfriendly for common users.
>
>So if Roam is only offering the illusion of backup and export, but
>nothing truly portable, that’s a major failing—in addition to the
>cloud-only nature of the service, and the flakey proprietor.
Posted by Luhmann
Apr 17, 2020 at 01:46 AM
I am still torn between Obsidian and Roam
On the Obsidian side:
I like the Obsidian developers better, and I agree that the system is more future proof and there is less concern for lock-in. Also, because it is a folder of markdown files, I can open and work with my text easily on my phone using 1Writer or similar apps. Roam is still an awful experience on the phone and practically useless.
On the Roam side:
I simply prefer working with an outliner than with plain text files. I like the fact that each item can be linked or embedded separately, while retaining the context of the outline. I like folding and zooming. It is just how I like to work. I came to this forum initially looking for something like Workflowy that would work on my phone, and eventually Dynalist delivered. I love Dynalist, so I am disappointed that they chose not to base their roam competitor on an outliner. It may be that they eventually add outliner-like features to Obsidian, but it seems like it won’t be a priority for a while.
So I guess I will have to wait and see if Obsidian adds outliner features first, or if Roam releases a decent mobile app first. Right now I think the latter is more likely… Or maybe a third option will show up? (None of what is out there comes close in my opinion.)
Posted by Luhmann
Apr 17, 2020 at 05:06 AM
I should clarify a few things.
There was some discussion in the Obsidian discord forums about the choice not to base Obsidian on an outliner. There are a lot of good reasons for their choices including portability, compatibility, long term reliability of your data, and technical reasons involving the editor (they had to do a lot of custom coding for the editor in Dynalist). I don’t doubt that these reasons are all perfectly good and legitimate - I was just responding to my own thinking about how I like to work ... which is in an outliner. I should also add that I shared the app FoldingText with the developers as an example of integrating outliner like features into a plaintext markdown app and they are considering the possibility of doing so, but it is really too early to say whether this will make it to the initial released app or not.
I add this because I want to clarify that these are very real tradeoffs. In an ideal world one could have everything: an app with a native Mac/iOS feel and integration that also was cross platform, an app that supported open standards, but also supported features that aren’t easily integrated into those standards, etc. Some people here might prefer one side of the equation and some the other, but it is unlikely that we will get one single app that checks all the boxes for everyone.
One thing I will say, however, is that the character of the developer is important. And even though I may prefer using Roam right now, I really like the team behind Dynalist and am rooting for them to succeed. Obsidian is also very exciting right now because the developers are still very open to suggestions, so there is a real opportunity to help shape the future of the app.
Posted by Paul Korm
Apr 17, 2020 at 10:43 AM
I think Erica and Shida are outstanding developers, though I’m concerned Obsidian might be a fling and not a thing—since they are clearly splitting time between Dynalist and Obsidian. Extremely early days—Obsidian is barely more than a proof of concept today, but worth supporting and encouraging. Would like to see a donationware link soon.
Luhmann wrote:
I am still torn between Obsidian and Roam
>I like the Obsidian developers better, and I agree that the system is
>more future proof and there is less concern for lock-in. Also, because
>it is a folder of markdown files, I can open and work with my text
>easily on my phone using 1Writer or similar apps.
Posted by Luhmann
Apr 19, 2020 at 04:24 AM
Obsidian has released their pricing. Note that even though sync isn’t included in the free tier, one could use one’s own sync solution, such as Dropbox.
https://obsidian.md/pricing.html
If I actually end up using Obsidian as part of my daily workflow I will certainly support them. Having a discussion with them now about discounts for academic, non-profits, and early adopters, etc.