Software for bridging gap between notes and digital media
Started by Nomatica
on 3/4/2020
Nomatica
3/4/2020 9:43 pm
In my wits end crimping, I am about to check out Infoqube and doogie pim, but before I do, I thought I might post here to see if anyone has any other suggestions given the types of files I am collecting and working with. My issue is that I am dealing with photos (pictures and captures), audio and video media content. Ideally I would like this media in the same system I am using to take my notes. Currently I file a text document in the same folder with the same name. It seems as though there should be an application that allows you to view, attach notes and even edit these types of files. My personal information manager needs to be multimedia friendly.
I have also recently stumbled upon roam-research, which allows one to quickly add connections between different entries. While this is not a new concept, the ease in which one can do it is attractive. Finding connections and themes between different pieces of information is attractive. Having some linking and tagging done automatically would be great. Years ago there were promises of the semantic web. It seems we should be closer.
I do not like using cloud/subscriptions services as I need to maintain control over my data and because of the size of my directories given all of the photos, video and audio files. I have used oneenote locally, which is powerful, but it is slow to respond and Microsoft has been pushing hard to use their cloud services.
I am on windows mostly (sometime Linux)
These are the types of files I work with and would like to integrate into a single system:
I have also recently stumbled upon roam-research, which allows one to quickly add connections between different entries. While this is not a new concept, the ease in which one can do it is attractive. Finding connections and themes between different pieces of information is attractive. Having some linking and tagging done automatically would be great. Years ago there were promises of the semantic web. It seems we should be closer.
I do not like using cloud/subscriptions services as I need to maintain control over my data and because of the size of my directories given all of the photos, video and audio files. I have used oneenote locally, which is powerful, but it is slow to respond and Microsoft has been pushing hard to use their cloud services.
I am on windows mostly (sometime Linux)
These are the types of files I work with and would like to integrate into a single system:
Nomatica
3/4/2020 10:31 pm
(must not have copied all the text to my post)
These are the types of files I work with:
Photos Notes (a photo taken to remember something)
Voice Memos (phone & voice recorder)
Saved Web Pages (offline)
Saved pages (read it later)
Bookmarks
Screen Captures
Copied Text (win clipboard)
Emails & File attachments
Audio & Video Interviews & and accompanied notes (text)
PDFs, Open/MS word documents, power-point slides
PDF Notes/ Highlights
Scanned Documents, Business cards, Family Artifacts
Notes & Journal entries (text, video & audio)
Hand Written notes with pen and paper then scanned (though I would like to switch to a tablet).
Contacts (Personal, & Business)
Photography & Video files (downloaded from camera)
Thank you
These are the types of files I work with:
Photos Notes (a photo taken to remember something)
Voice Memos (phone & voice recorder)
Saved Web Pages (offline)
Saved pages (read it later)
Bookmarks
Screen Captures
Copied Text (win clipboard)
Emails & File attachments
Audio & Video Interviews & and accompanied notes (text)
PDFs, Open/MS word documents, power-point slides
PDF Notes/ Highlights
Scanned Documents, Business cards, Family Artifacts
Notes & Journal entries (text, video & audio)
Hand Written notes with pen and paper then scanned (though I would like to switch to a tablet).
Contacts (Personal, & Business)
Photography & Video files (downloaded from camera)
Thank you
Dr Andus
3/4/2020 11:21 pm
If it were still being developed, I would have suggested ConnectedText, which is the closest thing to RoamResearch offline that I'm aware of.
CT is still fully functional, but it's no longer being developed.
I'm a CT user myself, and I was just watching one of the RoamResearch videos before I read your post, as being able to do some of what CT can offer but online is a big attraction to me.
But keep in mind that most of the media you'd drag into CT would be mainly just a link, and the media would need to be viewed with an external application (though CT does have some rudimentary viewers for some common files such as images and PDF).
So it would be more of an organisational layer, a dashboard with links to all the files stored elsewhere.
CT is still fully functional, but it's no longer being developed.
I'm a CT user myself, and I was just watching one of the RoamResearch videos before I read your post, as being able to do some of what CT can offer but online is a big attraction to me.
But keep in mind that most of the media you'd drag into CT would be mainly just a link, and the media would need to be viewed with an external application (though CT does have some rudimentary viewers for some common files such as images and PDF).
So it would be more of an organisational layer, a dashboard with links to all the files stored elsewhere.
Nomatica
3/5/2020 2:07 am
Dr Andus wrote:
If it were still being developed, I would have suggested ConnectedText,
which is the closest thing to RoamResearch offline that I'm aware of.
I have thought about connectedText. I have heard great things about it. I wish there were some videos of it in action.
CT is still fully functional, but it's no longer being developed.
I have heard some individuals complain that is is not stable in Windows 10- they seem to be migrating away and looking for alternatives.
I'm a CT user myself, and I was just watching one of the RoamResearch
videos before I read your post, as being able to do some of what CT can
offer but online is a big attraction to me.
I understand the attraction of online services, I just cannot. Also I need to contend with large media files.
Have you found ConnectedText having any issues? Does it still run stable?
But keep in mind that most of the media you'd drag into CT would be
mainly just a link, and the media would need to be viewed with an
external application (though CT does have some rudimentary viewers for
some common files such as images and PDF).
So it would be more of an organisational layer, a dashboard with links
to all the files stored elsewhere.
I am aware. I understand why this is the case. I sometimes wonder if what I need is a file explorer on steroids.
MadaboutDana
3/5/2020 8:49 am
On Windows, I’m tempted to suggest Scrivener. Keep It, alas, is restricted to Apple devices.
Dr Andus
3/5/2020 9:30 am
Nomatica wrote:
I'm still on Windows 7, and it works perfectly, and by and large I hear the same from Win10 users on the CT forum.
People looking for alternatives seem to do it because of the lack of development, or they want online version.
I have heard some individuals complain that is is not stable in Windows
10- they seem to be migrating away and looking for alternatives.
I'm still on Windows 7, and it works perfectly, and by and large I hear the same from Win10 users on the CT forum.
People looking for alternatives seem to do it because of the lack of development, or they want online version.
Nomatica
3/5/2020 4:21 pm
Alas, I am on windows- not Mac and I do not think that will be changing anytime soon.
@MadaboutDana
Scrivener seems geared towards long form writing. It allows one to break down something into parts, but the focus is on the long form and integrating those parts into it. I do not know if it works well with creating notes related to, about an audio or video file. About 40 percent of my notes are sourced from audio and video files. I do get how Scrivener is similar to RoamResearch. I am just trying to imagine how it would work with all the types of files I am trying to bridge the gap between.
@ Dr Andus hat is helpful information. Do you know how it compares to Wikidpad? I believe that connected text allows you to see your entries and collections in some interesting ways. I used wikidpad for a while and it was nice, however, entry and organizing was not as quick as I would have liked. I would like to spend less time on the entering and organizational end and more time working with the information/files that I am collecting. I would like to automate the input of the file my collection and importing into the system as much as possible. I have considered Cintanotes based on the ability to create rules https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhFM5PVxFz4 for this reason. Cintanotes also monitors a file you open and saves any changes to the note file http://cintanotes.com/help/file-attachments/
My understanding is that I can do the same with Infoqube, and that it offers the ability for the notes to be longer form than cintanotes. It is just that there is a learning curve to do it.
Infoqube also integrates with email. Being able to have an email and its attachments become part of the database would be great. I do not believe that cintanotes can integrate with email.
While I cannot do the automated rules with doogie PIM, it is a nice ready made system that seems like it would take less time getting up and running. It is also portable, like infoqube.
My files (listed below) are scattered. and I would like to bring them together. In some way can connect them all. Even better if some of those connections could be made without my having to make them.
Photos Notes (a photo taken to remember something)
Voice Memos (phone & voice recorder)
Saved Web Pages (offline)
Saved pages (read it later)
Bookmarks
Screen Captures
Copied Text (win clipboard)
Emails & File attachments
Audio & Video Interviews & and accompanied notes (text)
PDFs, Open/MS word documents, power-point slides
PDF Notes/ Highlights
Scanned Documents, Business cards, Family Artifacts
Notes & Journal entries (text, video & audio)
Hand Written notes with pen and paper then scanned (though I would like to switch to a tablet).
Contacts (Personal, & Business)
Photography & Video files (downloaded from camera)
Oh And spreadsheets. So many spreadsheets:)
Am I correct that Infoqube has this ability? To automate the process of importing, categorizing, tagging etc? Are there other options I should be considering?
@MadaboutDana
Scrivener seems geared towards long form writing. It allows one to break down something into parts, but the focus is on the long form and integrating those parts into it. I do not know if it works well with creating notes related to, about an audio or video file. About 40 percent of my notes are sourced from audio and video files. I do get how Scrivener is similar to RoamResearch. I am just trying to imagine how it would work with all the types of files I am trying to bridge the gap between.
@ Dr Andus hat is helpful information. Do you know how it compares to Wikidpad? I believe that connected text allows you to see your entries and collections in some interesting ways. I used wikidpad for a while and it was nice, however, entry and organizing was not as quick as I would have liked. I would like to spend less time on the entering and organizational end and more time working with the information/files that I am collecting. I would like to automate the input of the file my collection and importing into the system as much as possible. I have considered Cintanotes based on the ability to create rules https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhFM5PVxFz4 for this reason. Cintanotes also monitors a file you open and saves any changes to the note file http://cintanotes.com/help/file-attachments/
My understanding is that I can do the same with Infoqube, and that it offers the ability for the notes to be longer form than cintanotes. It is just that there is a learning curve to do it.
Infoqube also integrates with email. Being able to have an email and its attachments become part of the database would be great. I do not believe that cintanotes can integrate with email.
While I cannot do the automated rules with doogie PIM, it is a nice ready made system that seems like it would take less time getting up and running. It is also portable, like infoqube.
My files (listed below) are scattered. and I would like to bring them together. In some way can connect them all. Even better if some of those connections could be made without my having to make them.
Photos Notes (a photo taken to remember something)
Voice Memos (phone & voice recorder)
Saved Web Pages (offline)
Saved pages (read it later)
Bookmarks
Screen Captures
Copied Text (win clipboard)
Emails & File attachments
Audio & Video Interviews & and accompanied notes (text)
PDFs, Open/MS word documents, power-point slides
PDF Notes/ Highlights
Scanned Documents, Business cards, Family Artifacts
Notes & Journal entries (text, video & audio)
Hand Written notes with pen and paper then scanned (though I would like to switch to a tablet).
Contacts (Personal, & Business)
Photography & Video files (downloaded from camera)
Oh And spreadsheets. So many spreadsheets:)
Am I correct that Infoqube has this ability? To automate the process of importing, categorizing, tagging etc? Are there other options I should be considering?
Graham Rhind
3/5/2020 5:41 pm
Nomatica, have you looked at Zoot (https://www.zootsoftware.com It's idiosyncratic, but I think it will do almost everything you're looking for. I use it for my media files, which can be individually annotated; and the Smart Folders options allow you to create custom views in ways that just tagging in other programs can't.
It has a 60-day free trial, no subscription, offline data storage and integrated e-mail.
I'm sure I've missed some of what you were listing as requirements, but that's what came to mind when I read your requirements.
Graham
It has a 60-day free trial, no subscription, offline data storage and integrated e-mail.
I'm sure I've missed some of what you were listing as requirements, but that's what came to mind when I read your requirements.
Graham
Nomatica
3/5/2020 6:35 pm
Graham<
I am familiar with Zoot, and have had it on my radar in 2016. But did not pursue it because of the lack of documentation (something echoed many places). It also seems that there are only a few people in its user forum, and they are all trying to figure out how to use the program.
I use it for my media files, which can be individually annotated;
I would be interested in your sharing as much as you are willing about how you use it, specifically with media files. As I understand it , it has an internal audio player.
I am familiar with Zoot, and have had it on my radar in 2016. But did not pursue it because of the lack of documentation (something echoed many places). It also seems that there are only a few people in its user forum, and they are all trying to figure out how to use the program.
I use it for my media files, which can be individually annotated;
and the Smart Folders options allow you to create custom views in ways
that just tagging in other programs can't.
I would be interested in your sharing as much as you are willing about how you use it, specifically with media files. As I understand it , it has an internal audio player.
Alexander Deliyannis
3/5/2020 8:50 pm
I would suggest that you take look at Tag Spaces; I believe it does much of what you are looking for:
https://www.tagspaces.org/
https://www.tagspaces.org/
Dr Andus
3/5/2020 11:44 pm
Nomatica wrote:
Not sure how it compares to Wikidpad, but I think CT is probably still one of the most sophisticated personal wikis out there. There is usually a significant learning curve.
Creating new entries is not particularly quick, but once a new page has been created, adding content is just a matter of drag and drop.
I don't think there is much automation of input, so you might be better off with InfoQube, which is actively developed, in contrast to CT.
Do you know how it compares to
Wikidpad? I believe that connected text allows you to see your entries
and collections in some interesting ways. I used wikidpad for a while
and it was nice, however, entry and organizing was not as quick as I
would have liked. I would like to spend less time on the entering and
organizational end and more time working with the information/files
that I am collecting. I would like to automate the input of the file my
collection and importing into the system as much as possible.
Not sure how it compares to Wikidpad, but I think CT is probably still one of the most sophisticated personal wikis out there. There is usually a significant learning curve.
Creating new entries is not particularly quick, but once a new page has been created, adding content is just a matter of drag and drop.
I don't think there is much automation of input, so you might be better off with InfoQube, which is actively developed, in contrast to CT.
Nomatica
3/6/2020 12:37 am
@Alexander I will check out tagspaces. As I understand it, tagspaces also has the ability to take notes. I am curious how those notes are stored.
@Dr Andrus
I understand. I think you are likely right about CT’s sophistication. At some point I would like to play with it and learn it.
@Dr Andrus
I understand. I think you are likely right about CT’s sophistication. At some point I would like to play with it and learn it.
Graham Rhind
3/6/2020 10:53 am
Nomatica wrote:
Zoot now contains a help file. Like many programs that offer huge amounts of flexibility, it does take some practice to get it working for you. It's true that it used to have a very vocal and active user community. I don't know where they've gone, or why, but I suspect some have moved on because they require multi-platform support and a mobile companion app, neither of which Zoot can offer. The messages I see coming from the forum are from old hands trying to do some pretty complex stuff. Most of the basics are easy enough to master.
I have only just come back to Zoot after some years away, so I am also still experimenting. What I am currently doing is cataloguing 60 years worth of photographs, using The Brain and Zoot in parallel to compare their value. Each photo is carefully named (who, where, when etc.). With a program such as The Brain, I have to define a structure and can then import (or link) the photo to a point in that structure. I.e., if I have a photo of person a in place b in year c, I have to choose where to place it, or place it in all of them, creating duplication. If I place it in one part of the structure, I can still tag it or search for it and find its relevance to other parts of the structure that way, but it's inelegant and a lot of work.
Zoot, on the other hand, allows me to dump the whole lot into it without worrying about structure, links or tags. Using the smart folders feature, I can view all photo's for person a, or all for place b, or all from year c, or any combination of them; and I can create new views without having to find, link, move, tag, duplicate etc. etc. the files.
It does take some getting used to, because there's little defined structure and it can seem that Zoot swallows data and hides it, as you would need to define how you want to see it. It works for me for some projects, though - it's worth playing around with, in any case.
Graham<
I am familiar with Zoot, and have had it on my radar in 2016. But did
not pursue it because of the lack of documentation (something echoed
many places). It also seems that there are only a few people in its user
forum, and they are all trying to figure out how to use the program.
Zoot now contains a help file. Like many programs that offer huge amounts of flexibility, it does take some practice to get it working for you. It's true that it used to have a very vocal and active user community. I don't know where they've gone, or why, but I suspect some have moved on because they require multi-platform support and a mobile companion app, neither of which Zoot can offer. The messages I see coming from the forum are from old hands trying to do some pretty complex stuff. Most of the basics are easy enough to master.
>I use it for my media files, which can be individually annotated;
>and the Smart Folders options allow you to create custom views in ways
>that just tagging in other programs can't.
I would be interested in your sharing as much as you are willing about
how you use it, specifically with media files. As I understand it , it
has an internal audio player.
I have only just come back to Zoot after some years away, so I am also still experimenting. What I am currently doing is cataloguing 60 years worth of photographs, using The Brain and Zoot in parallel to compare their value. Each photo is carefully named (who, where, when etc.). With a program such as The Brain, I have to define a structure and can then import (or link) the photo to a point in that structure. I.e., if I have a photo of person a in place b in year c, I have to choose where to place it, or place it in all of them, creating duplication. If I place it in one part of the structure, I can still tag it or search for it and find its relevance to other parts of the structure that way, but it's inelegant and a lot of work.
Zoot, on the other hand, allows me to dump the whole lot into it without worrying about structure, links or tags. Using the smart folders feature, I can view all photo's for person a, or all for place b, or all from year c, or any combination of them; and I can create new views without having to find, link, move, tag, duplicate etc. etc. the files.
It does take some getting used to, because there's little defined structure and it can seem that Zoot swallows data and hides it, as you would need to define how you want to see it. It works for me for some projects, though - it's worth playing around with, in any case.
Alexander Deliyannis
3/6/2020 5:10 pm
Do I assume correctly that the information on "person a" or "place b" is part of a photo's filename? Else how can Zoot know about this without the files being tagged?
BTW (not a suggestion for Nomatica as it is an online solution) I found the following rather creepy but potentially useful:
"Media e-Discovery | Face Recognition: As soon as you upload a photo, the technology will begin to scan and detect all the faces within it, creating a custom thumbnail for them. Any new photos matching that person’s face, will appear under the thumbnail created."
https://www.zoolz.com/bigmind/
Graham Rhind wrote:
BTW (not a suggestion for Nomatica as it is an online solution) I found the following rather creepy but potentially useful:
"Media e-Discovery | Face Recognition: As soon as you upload a photo, the technology will begin to scan and detect all the faces within it, creating a custom thumbnail for them. Any new photos matching that person’s face, will appear under the thumbnail created."
https://www.zoolz.com/bigmind/
Graham Rhind wrote:
Zoot, on the other hand, allows me to dump the whole lot into it without
worrying about structure, links or tags. Using the smart folders
feature, I can view all photo's for person a, or all for place b, or all
from year c, or any combination of them; and I can create new views
without having to find, link, move, tag, duplicate etc. etc. the files.
Graham Rhind
3/6/2020 5:27 pm
Alexander Deliyannis wrote:
Yep. No need to assume - I wrote it in my post: "Each photo is carefully named (who, where, when etc.).". Otherwise, as you say, each item would have to be tagged in some way for Zoot to know when they were to be viewed.
Do I assume correctly that the information on "person a" or "place b" is
part of a photo's filename? Else how can Zoot know about this without
the files being tagged?
Yep. No need to assume - I wrote it in my post: "Each photo is carefully named (who, where, when etc.).". Otherwise, as you say, each item would have to be tagged in some way for Zoot to know when they were to be viewed.
Nomatica
3/6/2020 9:12 pm
Graham Rhind wrote:
Zoot now contains a help file.
Looks like the help file was updated recently. That is promising.
I don't know where they've gone, or why, but I suspect some
have moved on because they require multi-platform support and a mobile
companion app, neither of which Zoot can offer.
As I remember, email was a way that things could be made available- but it was preferable to use google.
>>I use it for my media files, which can be individually annotated;
>>and the Smart Folders options allow you to create custom views in ways
>>that just tagging in other programs can't.
I need to learn more about smart folders. I believe there was a post in this forum discussing it years back.
Each photo is carefully named (who, where, when etc.). With
a program such as The Brain, I have to define a structure and can then
import (or link) the photo to a point in that structure. I.e., if I have
a photo of person a in place b in year c, I have to choose where to
place it, or place it in all of them, creating duplication. If I place
it in one part of the structure, I can still tag it or search for it and
find its relevance to other parts of the structure that way, but it's
inelegant and a lot of work.
It seems that my use case has many similarities. I have many photos, audio files and videos that I would like to catalogue based on the content, the people involved, and the people involved.
It might be that I can use a multi tier system. The issue with tagging using tagspaces, is the name length. The names get unwieldy. However if the files can be anchored so to speak (1st tier) with rudimentary tagging in the name, perhaps no more than 4 tag, then deeper connections can be added using Zoot's database tagging. With your use case, is it possible to add detailed notes to the actual photograph? So for instance, would you be able to add a description within the photograph's entry? Or do you need to create a separate entry, like a note, and link them? As I remember, Zoot had different types of entries. There were notes, Journal entries etc.
This sounds attractive. I do not want to be spending alot of time creating the structure. Can Zoot automatically monitor a file on your computer and import items from that file as separate entries? I realize a smart folder is different- I just am curious if that is possible. I typically save different files to different folders. It would be nice if my Info Manager could automatically import items into from a folder and create an entry. Even better would be going beyond the file name to create tags. In the case of an academic journal pdf/journal- pulling the tags from that. This seems to be something limited to reference managers.
Zoot, on the other hand, allows me to dump the whole lot into it without
worrying about structure, links or tags. Using the smart folders
feature, I can view all photo's for person a, or all for place b, or all
from year c, or any combination of them; and I can create new views
without having to find, link, move, tag, duplicate etc. etc. the files.
If I remember correctly, Zoot can process emails in some interesting ways. There is a way that you can set it up to monitor an email account and have it create entries from incoming messages in a similar way to infoqube. Taking your current cataloguing project, would it be possible for you to create the same type of entry in zoot that you do currently, by emailing the photograph? Can you email a photo to an account you are monitoring, and have the name, location and event tags pulled from the attached file's name or elsewhere in the email?
If anyone has experience doing this with infoqube or another application, I would be interested in hearing more.
Thank you for going over how you are using The Brain and Zoot. It is very helpful, especially because there are great similarities between what I am looking to do and what you are doing.
Nomatica
3/6/2020 9:35 pm
Alexander Deliyannis wrote:
BTW (not a suggestion for Nomatica as it is an online solution) I found
the following rather creepy but potentially useful:
"Media e-Discovery | Face Recognition: As soon as you upload a photo,
the technology will begin to scan and detect all the faces within it,
creating a custom thumbnail for them. Any new photos matching that
person’s face, will appear under the thumbnail created."
https://www.zoolz.com/bigmind/
Even though I cannot use them, however attractive, these things are interesting.
I have seen a number of offline desktop applications list face recognition within their feature set. Digikam is one that comes to mind. Depending on how the tags are added, it is possible they could carry over to Zoot or some other application. I am not sure how the tags are applied and if they can carry over outside the program. Also, I am sure the quality of the photos is also important.
Smithers
3/7/2020 1:11 am
Hey Nomatica,
Nimbus Notes-- I'd give it a look
If being able to have all your stuff in one place is what you're looking for, then I'd check out Nimbus Notes. You can upload videos, upload images, upload pdfs right in the text editor and view those files. They've even got this cool little feature that lets you "expand"/"collapse" videos in a single field.
The interface is nice, (although I spent a weekend making my own css for it) and it's got an actual "sheet" sidebar, and "folder" side bar to the left of the editor.
Nimbus Notes-- I'd give it a look
If being able to have all your stuff in one place is what you're looking for, then I'd check out Nimbus Notes. You can upload videos, upload images, upload pdfs right in the text editor and view those files. They've even got this cool little feature that lets you "expand"/"collapse" videos in a single field.
The interface is nice, (although I spent a weekend making my own css for it) and it's got an actual "sheet" sidebar, and "folder" side bar to the left of the editor.
Nomatica
3/7/2020 4:12 am
Smithers wrote:
If being able to have all your stuff in one place is what you're looking
for, then I'd check out Nimbus Notes. You can upload videos, upload
images, upload pdfs right in the text editor and view those files.
I see they have an offline mode. Is it possible to use the software "offline" only? I suspect it is all web based.
They've even got this cool little feature that lets you
"expand"/"collapse" videos in a single field.
I am curious about what that would look like.
It is nice that you can do that. Tweak it. But that support my assumption that it is a web only application. It looks really slick. And actually it seems pretty affordable compared to other services.
The interface is nice, (although I spent a weekend making my own css for
it) and it's got an actual "sheet" sidebar, and "folder" side bar to the
left of the editor.
Nomatica
3/7/2020 4:24 am
Smithers,
I was too quick to judge. It has a desktop application. And an android application. And says specifically
"Nimbus Note is available on the most popular platforms and devices, so you’ll always have access to your information—no matter where you are or what device you’re using. Since Internet connection is not needed for most Nimbus Note features, your notes will be conveniently available to you offline."
Definitely an interesting option. I wonder if it is possible to sync between devices without using their servers. It is a subscription service which made me assume it relied on their servers.
I was too quick to judge. It has a desktop application. And an android application. And says specifically
"Nimbus Note is available on the most popular platforms and devices, so you’ll always have access to your information—no matter where you are or what device you’re using. Since Internet connection is not needed for most Nimbus Note features, your notes will be conveniently available to you offline."
Definitely an interesting option. I wonder if it is possible to sync between devices without using their servers. It is a subscription service which made me assume it relied on their servers.
Graham Rhind
3/7/2020 9:33 am
With your use case, is it possible to add detailed notes to the actual photograph? So for instance, would you be able to add a description within the photograph’s entry? Or do you need to create a separate entry, like a note, and link them? As I remember, Zoot had different types of entries. There were notes, Journal entries etc.
You can add comments to each file, regardless of type, as part of a file’s metadata – this is separate from “notes” within Zoot – and information within that comment can also be used to define rules for views in Smart Folders.
This sounds attractive. I do not want to be spending a lot of time creating the structure. Can Zoot automatically monitor a file on your computer and import items from that file as separate entries? I realize a smart folder is different- I just am curious if that is possible. I typically save different files to different folders. It would be nice if my Info Manager could automatically import items into from a folder and create an entry. Even better would be going beyond the file name to create tags. In the case of an academic journal pdf/journal- pulling the tags from that. This seems to be something limited to reference managers.
If you link an entry in Zoot to a file it is monitored every time Zoot starts. You can also set a directory to be monitored, so moving files between directories could be made possible without breaking the links. I'm not sure about importing items from files as separate entries. About the “automatic tagging”, to be very clear, I create tags using file names because it is intuitive to me, it can be read simply by me and it is useful should I want to use different programs, such as Tagspaces, which Alexander mentioned above. But Zoot can create views based on hundreds of aspects of the entries within it – mileage within a task, cc field contents within an e-mail, URL within a web page, author from a feed, artist from a music file, city from a contact name …. It’s almost unlimited.
By the way, I tried Tagspaces and I did like it, but it has a database size limit which I kept bumping against. I now use Tabbles - https://tabbles.net – which might also suit your requirements. It can be made to work offline, though that does take some technical knowhow.
I remember correctly, Zoot can process emails in some interesting ways. There is a way that you can set it up to monitor an email account and have it create entries from incoming messages in a similar way to infoqube. Taking your current cataloguing project, would it be possible for you to create the same type of entry in zoot that you do currently, by emailing the photograph? Can you email a photo to an account you are monitoring, and have the name, location and event tags pulled from the attached file’s name or elsewhere in the email?
Short answer: yes. (I haven’t tried this, but I’m pretty sure it can). Zoot treats any information you put into it in the same way, and you can create views on any file’s contents, metadata, name etc.
Alexander Deliyannis
3/7/2020 2:47 pm
Got it now; it was clear enough but I somehow assumed that was only in the context of TheBrain, not of the file system.
Great approach, this way most of the work is valid regardless of the tool you will then use.
Graham Rhind wrote:
Great approach, this way most of the work is valid regardless of the tool you will then use.
Graham Rhind wrote:
Yep. No need to assume - I wrote it in my post: "Each photo is carefully
named (who, where, when etc.).".
Graham Rhind
3/7/2020 3:50 pm
Alexander Deliyannis wrote:
Great approach, this way most of the work is valid regardless of the
tool you will then use.
Exactly. I'd like to say that I planned it that way, but it's just a by-product of what I was naturally doing ;-) . It helps a lot in programs such as The Brain, where you can tag "thoughts" but not each file attached to that thought.
Nomatica
3/8/2020 5:54 am
Graham Rhind wrote:
If you link an entry in Zoot to a file it is monitored every time Zoot
starts. You can also set a directory to be monitored, so moving files
between directories could be made possible without breaking the links.
I'm not sure about importing items from files as separate entries.
About the “automatic tagging”, to be very clear, I create
tags using file names because it is intuitive to me, it can be read
simply by me and it is useful should I want to use different programs,
such as Tagspaces, which Alexander mentioned above. But Zoot can create
views based on hundreds of aspects of the entries within it –
mileage within a task, cc field contents within an e-mail, URL within a
web page, author from a feed, artist from a music file, city from a
contact name …. It’s almost unlimited.
That does sound attractive. Thanks for clarifying.
By the way, I tried Tagspaces and I did like it, but it has a database
size limit which I kept bumping against. I now use Tabbles -
https://tabbles.net – which might also suit your requirements. It
can be made to work offline, though that does take some technical
knowhow.
I will need to look up what those limits are. When I looked I believe I liked Tagspaces more than Tabbles but I do not remember why
Thank you again for al the information.
Slartibartfarst
3/10/2020 2:43 pm
@Nomatica:
From experience, I have observed that it's not often that computer PIM (Personal Information Management) tool users sit down and methodically analyse and try to understand exactly what their PIM requirements are, let alone what data types they need to cater for. I was thus struck by the "list of files" you provided - per copy of text of your post of Mar 4, 2020 at 10:31 PM, copied below.
A good deal of what you seem to be looking for - including the various data types - is covered in a post relating to a personal, now 10-year experiment in the use of Microsoft OneNote (which can provide Cloud-based AND/OR Client-based PIM databases) - refer:
Microsoft OneNote - how to make it your 21st century Zettelkasten PIM.
Whilst that (the use of OneNote) includes:
* the automatic OCR and indexing and search of all text embedded in images and handwriting on touchscreens (which latter is a feature that I currently do not need);
* the automatic indexing and search of text in inotes, web clippings, etc.;
* the automatic indexing and search of intelligible words/phrases (in many languages) in audio files and the audio tracks of video files;
- it does NOT provide the following 3 things:
1. An elegant/feasible solution to your apparent requirements relating to extensive image metadata. The best tools that I could recommend for that are:
- the excellent CHS (ClipboardHelp& Spell - which is a database tool where all text can be exported/imprted to/from a spreadsheet format, if required), which can be integrated with an image management tool (I use the excellent Irfanview) and an image editing/screen-capture tool (I use the excellent ScreenshotCaptor) - refer:
Re: snipping tool with image editor - Using CHS as an image clip management tool
- to be used in conjunction with the amazing Picasa - refer:
Google Picasa "Sunset" version - Mini-Review and anchor-point
2. An elegant/feasible solution to your apparent requirements relating to DM/ARM (Document Management/Academic Reference Management) and indexing/search of the text in douments/references. The only and best tool that I could recommend (scans your drive or specific folders and does cataloguing and automatic OCR of image-based PDFs also) for that is the superb Qiqqa - refer:
3. A general file metadata tool. The simplest and most effective tool that I have found and which I would recommend for that is not a file cataloguing tool, or similar, but a humble application-sensitive or file-sensitive (you can use it how you want) note-making application that saves its notes (metadata) to a text file linked to a relevant application window or file properties name, which text file [fully searchable on the drive] can be set to pop up in a discrete window whenever a particular application, screen, browser window or *file properties box* is opened up - refer:
Stick-A-Note + Universal Viewer - Mini-Review
__________________________
Access, Search and Retrieval benefits of the above:
The above relate to working with the concept of YHDAD "Your Hard Drive [and Cloud drive] As Database".
Thus, with the possible exception of some of the complex image-specific metadata that Picasa may need to create (depending on what you use it for - e.g., linking people's faces to their IDs/profiles/email addresses in your Gmail contacts), the applications referred to above do NOT lock your notes, data types and related metadata up in a proprietary tool/database, which means that most/all files on your client hard drive and in linked Cloud-based stores (such as OneDrive) can be indexed and searched by:
- WDS (Windows Desktop Search) - as installed with the Windows OS.
- GDS (Google Desktop Search) -
Filenaming methods:
Be aware that, with the limit on filename/path langths in Windows having been increased to some obscene size, filenames have become potentially very much more useful for containing lots of metadata and which can include Tags (so you DON'T need a proprietary tagging subsytem).
Two examples:
Example 1: If I am manging (say) a project called "CASE Implementation" which has a file-naming convention such that all documents created are titled thus:
ISODateOfCreation DescriptiveFileNameOrTitle (VersionNumber) STATUS (InitialsOfAuthor).Extension
- then I might have a report about it in an MS-Word document named thus:
2020-03-11 [CASE Implementation] - Review of CASE tools offering IDEF0+3+ABC modelling (V01.52) DRAFT (JB).docx
Here, the ISODate is at the front for ease of cataloguing and sorting and the square brackets are used deliberately to create a Tag: [CASE Implementation]
Creating [Tags] like that out of parts of a filename can be extremely useful when searching for that metadata using a fast file search tool such as (say), Everything.
Later. I might want to add another Tag to that file, so I might rename it thus - by adding a Tag of the name of the tool the report recommends most - [Platinum] software.
So the new name is:
2020-03-11 [CASE Implementation] - Review of CASE tools offering IDEF0+3+ABC modelling (V01.52) DRAFT (JB)[Platinum].docx
(The added Tag can be anywhere you think it fits without breaking the sense of the filename description or the filename convention.)
Example 2: Let's say that I want to capture a web page that I am reading containing a blog post - maybe in case it gets expunged later - in such a way as to have it on disk, as a single file, so that it can be indexed and catalogued by the search tools (WDS or GDS). I can do this most easily and space-efficiently by saving it as an .MHTML file (a sort of .ZIP email file) - which can be saved by the browser (and opened/viewed within the browser or other viewing tools) - and I would use a similar filenaming convetion as above:
ISODateOfBlogPost TitleOfBlogPost - RelatedDomainOrOtherMetaData.Extension
So the filname that I "Save As" might be:
2020-03-11 Review of [Platinum] CASE Tool and bugs - casenet.com.mhtml
Here I have Tagged the [Platinum] part of the blog post title; the full URL will be contained in the .mhtml file.
______________________
That's all I have to suggest in terms of recommended "PIM tools that work really well for me" as an IT nerd, but of course your specific requirements could be different to mine. I'm still not entirely "sold" on OneNote, as it still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of ergonomics and structruring of data - the latter being something that the excellent IQ (InfoQube) seems to be rather good at.
___________________________
You might also find this interesting:
There is one rather novel PIM tool that specifically I would suggest you might be interested in, but I personally have not yet fully explored it.
It is KFTF-Planz:
Keeping Found Things Found™ - refer:
Version 8.2 (2010-06-18)
Refer also:
It is based on the concept of YHDAD.
Having read the background to its development history, it seems like quite a nifty application, but CAUTION: In use, it can accesses and manipulate actual data (files) on the hard drive (i.e., not really in a self-contained proprietary database), so, if trialling, you may need to use the tool carefully. If the tool is used incorrectly, then you could indvertently delete that data with no warning or "Undo" capability (apart from retrieving it from the Recycle bin, or a backup).
The application seems to have been finished OK and works OK, but it seems to have been abandoned in 2010 (no further updates/maintenance), and though the website is still alive (and exists in Wayback), the forum (uses the old phpBB bulletin board software) seems to be present, but defunct.
There is an interesting report on XooML:
XooML: XML in Support of Many Tools Working on a Single Organization of Personal Information
Hope this all helps or is of use/interest.
_________________________________
Posted by Nomatica
Mar 4, 2020 at 10:31 PM
(must not have copied all the text to my post)
From experience, I have observed that it's not often that computer PIM (Personal Information Management) tool users sit down and methodically analyse and try to understand exactly what their PIM requirements are, let alone what data types they need to cater for. I was thus struck by the "list of files" you provided - per copy of text of your post of Mar 4, 2020 at 10:31 PM, copied below.
A good deal of what you seem to be looking for - including the various data types - is covered in a post relating to a personal, now 10-year experiment in the use of Microsoft OneNote (which can provide Cloud-based AND/OR Client-based PIM databases) - refer:
Microsoft OneNote - how to make it your 21st century Zettelkasten PIM.
Whilst that (the use of OneNote) includes:
* the automatic OCR and indexing and search of all text embedded in images and handwriting on touchscreens (which latter is a feature that I currently do not need);
* the automatic indexing and search of text in inotes, web clippings, etc.;
* the automatic indexing and search of intelligible words/phrases (in many languages) in audio files and the audio tracks of video files;
- it does NOT provide the following 3 things:
1. An elegant/feasible solution to your apparent requirements relating to extensive image metadata. The best tools that I could recommend for that are:
- the excellent CHS (ClipboardHelp& Spell - which is a database tool where all text can be exported/imprted to/from a spreadsheet format, if required), which can be integrated with an image management tool (I use the excellent Irfanview) and an image editing/screen-capture tool (I use the excellent ScreenshotCaptor) - refer:
Re: snipping tool with image editor - Using CHS as an image clip management tool
- to be used in conjunction with the amazing Picasa - refer:
Google Picasa "Sunset" version - Mini-Review and anchor-point
2. An elegant/feasible solution to your apparent requirements relating to DM/ARM (Document Management/Academic Reference Management) and indexing/search of the text in douments/references. The only and best tool that I could recommend (scans your drive or specific folders and does cataloguing and automatic OCR of image-based PDFs also) for that is the superb Qiqqa - refer:
3. A general file metadata tool. The simplest and most effective tool that I have found and which I would recommend for that is not a file cataloguing tool, or similar, but a humble application-sensitive or file-sensitive (you can use it how you want) note-making application that saves its notes (metadata) to a text file linked to a relevant application window or file properties name, which text file [fully searchable on the drive] can be set to pop up in a discrete window whenever a particular application, screen, browser window or *file properties box* is opened up - refer:
Stick-A-Note + Universal Viewer - Mini-Review
__________________________
Access, Search and Retrieval benefits of the above:
The above relate to working with the concept of YHDAD "Your Hard Drive [and Cloud drive] As Database".
Thus, with the possible exception of some of the complex image-specific metadata that Picasa may need to create (depending on what you use it for - e.g., linking people's faces to their IDs/profiles/email addresses in your Gmail contacts), the applications referred to above do NOT lock your notes, data types and related metadata up in a proprietary tool/database, which means that most/all files on your client hard drive and in linked Cloud-based stores (such as OneDrive) can be indexed and searched by:
- WDS (Windows Desktop Search) - as installed with the Windows OS.
- GDS (Google Desktop Search) -
Filenaming methods:
Be aware that, with the limit on filename/path langths in Windows having been increased to some obscene size, filenames have become potentially very much more useful for containing lots of metadata and which can include Tags (so you DON'T need a proprietary tagging subsytem).
Two examples:
Example 1: If I am manging (say) a project called "CASE Implementation" which has a file-naming convention such that all documents created are titled thus:
ISODateOfCreation DescriptiveFileNameOrTitle (VersionNumber) STATUS (InitialsOfAuthor).Extension
- then I might have a report about it in an MS-Word document named thus:
2020-03-11 [CASE Implementation] - Review of CASE tools offering IDEF0+3+ABC modelling (V01.52) DRAFT (JB).docx
Here, the ISODate is at the front for ease of cataloguing and sorting and the square brackets are used deliberately to create a Tag: [CASE Implementation]
Creating [Tags] like that out of parts of a filename can be extremely useful when searching for that metadata using a fast file search tool such as (say), Everything.
Later. I might want to add another Tag to that file, so I might rename it thus - by adding a Tag of the name of the tool the report recommends most - [Platinum] software.
So the new name is:
2020-03-11 [CASE Implementation] - Review of CASE tools offering IDEF0+3+ABC modelling (V01.52) DRAFT (JB)[Platinum].docx
(The added Tag can be anywhere you think it fits without breaking the sense of the filename description or the filename convention.)
Example 2: Let's say that I want to capture a web page that I am reading containing a blog post - maybe in case it gets expunged later - in such a way as to have it on disk, as a single file, so that it can be indexed and catalogued by the search tools (WDS or GDS). I can do this most easily and space-efficiently by saving it as an .MHTML file (a sort of .ZIP email file) - which can be saved by the browser (and opened/viewed within the browser or other viewing tools) - and I would use a similar filenaming convetion as above:
ISODateOfBlogPost TitleOfBlogPost - RelatedDomainOrOtherMetaData.Extension
So the filname that I "Save As" might be:
2020-03-11 Review of [Platinum] CASE Tool and bugs - casenet.com.mhtml
Here I have Tagged the [Platinum] part of the blog post title; the full URL will be contained in the .mhtml file.
______________________
That's all I have to suggest in terms of recommended "PIM tools that work really well for me" as an IT nerd, but of course your specific requirements could be different to mine. I'm still not entirely "sold" on OneNote, as it still leaves a lot to be desired in terms of ergonomics and structruring of data - the latter being something that the excellent IQ (InfoQube) seems to be rather good at.
___________________________
You might also find this interesting:
There is one rather novel PIM tool that specifically I would suggest you might be interested in, but I personally have not yet fully explored it.
It is KFTF-Planz:
Keeping Found Things Found™ - refer:
Version 8.2 (2010-06-18)
Refer also:
It is based on the concept of YHDAD.
Having read the background to its development history, it seems like quite a nifty application, but CAUTION: In use, it can accesses and manipulate actual data (files) on the hard drive (i.e., not really in a self-contained proprietary database), so, if trialling, you may need to use the tool carefully. If the tool is used incorrectly, then you could indvertently delete that data with no warning or "Undo" capability (apart from retrieving it from the Recycle bin, or a backup).
The application seems to have been finished OK and works OK, but it seems to have been abandoned in 2010 (no further updates/maintenance), and though the website is still alive (and exists in Wayback), the forum (uses the old phpBB bulletin board software) seems to be present, but defunct.
There is an interesting report on XooML:
XooML: XML in Support of Many Tools Working on a Single Organization of Personal Information
Hope this all helps or is of use/interest.
_________________________________
Posted by Nomatica
Mar 4, 2020 at 10:31 PM
(must not have copied all the text to my post)
These are the types of files I work with:
Photos Notes (a photo taken to remember something)
Voice Memos (phone & voice recorder)
Saved Web Pages (offline)
Saved pages (read it later)
Bookmarks
Screen Captures
Copied Text (win clipboard)
Emails & File attachments
Audio & Video Interviews & and accompanied notes (text)
PDFs, Open/MS word documents, power-point slides
PDF Notes/ Highlights
Scanned Documents, Business cards, Family Artifacts
Notes & Journal entries (text, video & audio)
Hand Written notes with pen and paper then scanned (though I would like
to switch to a tablet).
Contacts (Personal, & Business)
Photography & Video files (downloaded from camera)
Thank you
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