Hi all, I've been quietly working on a complete rewrite of Clibu, incorporating some functionality from Surfulater and from Clibu.

The most visible aspects so far are a new notes tree which has Hoisting and Filters to quickly drill down to specific sets of notes.

The Notes tree can be ordered by note title, user defined order (via drag and drop), date created and date modified. Each of these can be set to ascending or descending.

Tree items have user selectable icons and background colors (which can be filtered).

Notes can also be filtered using fuzzy search and a new full text search is coming.

It includes a new, more powerful and robust rich text editor with Markdown support coming. An outline view is planned, possibly with hoisting and Collaborative editing.

All content is stored locally in a database in your Browser. This provides data privacy and fast access. Full offline support is planned with optional synchronization across devices.

This early alpha release will give you an insight into where we are heading.

You can read more about this release and get the link to try out Demo app from https://blog.clibu.com/2019/09/24/clibu-notes-alpha-demo-release-v0-20-21/

I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions, criticisms etc. Either here on on the Clibu Blog.

- Neville

Thank you for your efforts, Neville. The new feature is interesting.

BTW, Safari 13 on macOS does not like the Clibu demo -- a stern voice delivers a message about a SQL problem. The demo is fine on Chrome on macOS, though. You might want to mention compatibility in your blog?

Hi Paul, Thanks for letting me know about Safari. Unfortunately Apple doesn't give Safari much love.

The "About" info in the app does mention we are only testing on Chrome at this stage. I'll add a note to the Blog as well.

Neville Franks wrote:

Unfortunately Apple
doesn't give Safari much love.

Given the regular updates, plus the fact that about 17% of all browsers (and about 25% of mobile browser traffic) = Safari, what do you mean by “much love”?

satis wrote:

Neville Franks wrote:
>Unfortunately Apple
>doesn't give Safari much love.

Given the regular updates, plus the fact that about 17% of all browsers
(and about 25% of mobile browser traffic) = Safari, what do you mean by
“much love”?

Important new capabilities are being added to Browsers all the time. These make it possible to develop richer and more desktop like applications.

Google Chrome is at the forefront in this regard. Even Microsoft realized how far behind Edge was and are switching to Chrome's Browser engine. Firefox tries hard to keep up. And Apple doesn't.

Apple want developers to keep building native mobile apps that have to go through the Apple Store so Apple makes lots of money.

OTOH Progressive Web Apps (PWAs) which can be built using the latest Browser capabilities can completely bypass the Apple Store and deliver most all the functionality of native apps. This may be why Apple is so slow at implementing the new capabilities needed to for PWAs.

In fact iOS itself hampers modern web apps by preventing Browsers like Chrome from using their browser engines on iOS.

So iOS and Safari are a real hindrance for many developers.

Neville Franks wrote:

>>Unfortunately Apple
>>doesn't give Safari much love.
>
>Given the regular updates, plus the fact that about 17% of all browsers
>(and about 25% of mobile browser traffic) = Safari, what do you mean by
>“much love”?

Important new capabilities are being added to Browsers all the time.
These make it possible to develop richer and more desktop like
applications.
Google Chrome is at the forefront in this regard. Even Microsoft
realized how far behind Edge was and are switching to Chrome's Browser
engine. Firefox tries hard to keep up. And Apple doesn't.

Microsoft has been way behind in browsers for years, and had no choice but to use Chromium. But you merely repeated your statement. I'm genuinely curious - what do you mean by "much love" and what capabilities are missing from Safari that prohibit Clibu from running on it? Is there something in Clibu that is proprietary in Chrome that you chose to use that locks out other browsers? Can you be more specific? Thanks.

Lots of info on the Web. ex. https://dev.to/nektro/safari-is-the-new-internet-explorer-1df0 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16850817 etc.

BTW Clibu works fine on Safari. It is the new Clibu Notes app which is in Alpha that Paul reported the SQL error with. Safari's implementation of IndexedDB has been lacking and buggy which is likely the cause of the SQL error.

Not sure how familiar you are with the browser's advancements, or capabilities, or updates, given links to 18+ month-old threads. At any rate, thanks for the replay, and perhaps the new improvements to Safari will help.

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/09/18/apple-releases-safari-technology-preview-92/

Maybe you or Paul could try "Safari Technology Preview release 92" with Clibu Notes Alpha: https://clibu-notes-alpha-0-20-21.netlify.com It does mention Bug fixes in IndexedDB.

Did you see the Article comment: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-releases-safari-technology-preview-92-with-bug-fixes-and-performance-improvements.2199185/

And yes those articles are a dated, they were found in a minute of quick searching. I do follow what is going on with all Browsers and Safari is the one which developers continually have issues with.

The fact that "Clibu Notes" works a treat without me doing anything special in Firefox and Chrome speaks volumes.

Neville Franks wrote:

they were found in a minute of quick
searching. I do follow what is going on with all Browsers

Yet you needed to do a (poor) search with old info to buttress your claims? Hmm.

I'm sorry but this is a complete waste of my time. Clearly you are a very happy Safari user and that's just fine.

PS Did you do as I suggested and try the “Safari Technology Preview release 92” with Clibu Notes. It will only take a minute.

PPS And you missed the damming comment: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apple-releases-safari-technology-preview-92-with-bug-fixes-and-performance-improvements.2199185/

Neville Franks wrote:

I'm sorry but this is a complete waste of my time. Clearly you are a
very happy Safari user and that's just fine.

Actually I use Brave. Please don't presume to know about other participants here. I was just curious about an overarching and vague dismissal of an issue your app has with a browser you didn't seem too familiar with, and asked a few questions (that you mostly chose not to answer).

Best of luck with your new app.

Satis, a few observations.

Not giving something "much love" is an idiomatic expression meaning not giving something the attention it deserves.

Neville's concerns re Safari and Apple's approach to app developers/development are not unique. Even if one was completely unaware of these things it seems to me that Neville gave us some good examples.

About search results: Google et al do not necessarily offer results chronologically. It is not unusual for me to spend time trying to find the most recent results. Your comments to Neville in this regard were rude and, IMO, unnecessary.

In fact, the tone of your responses became quickly and needlessly negative, especially given that Neville took the time to make a reasonable effort to respond to your posts. Given that Neville is an independent developer I have always found him willing to take the time to respond to people here and on his website.

Daly



satis wrote:

Neville Franks wrote:

> they were found in a minute of quick
>searching. I do follow what is going on with all Browsers

Yet you needed to do a (poor) search with old info to buttress your
claims? Hmm.

I appreciate your response, Daly. I asked what he specifically meant by the term, and I think he got a little defensive. I’m pretty familiar with the competing browsers, and how they have advanced and leapfrogged each other in various ways, but I’m likewise too familiar with fact-free drive-by bashing of one browser or another.

Back to the real point of this thread.

Neville, I hadn't tried Clibu until your mentioned your alpha test. It does indeed work well on Safari on macOS -- and also has interesting possibilities in Safari on iOS. I'll continue to explore as time permit. I'm impressed by the work you've put into Clibu and still do not ask for compensation. Very generous.

Unfortunately, the "Safari Technology Preview release 92" at the link you posted continues to generate a weird result on Safari (this is Safari 13 on macOS 10.15 beta 8 -- so a lot of possible issues with all the betaness going on). A stentorian voice declares "Houston we have a problem, site error, undefined is not an option ... WinSQL is deprecated". I have never seen an error message delivered with sound and no text, so I have no idea what is generating that result.



Neville Franks wrote:

Paul could try "Safari Technology Preview release 92" with
Clibu Notes Alpha: https://clibu-notes-alpha-0-20-21.netlify.com It does
mention Bug fixes in IndexedDB.

Hi Paul,
Clibu is pretty well battle tested so there shouldn't be any surprise issues. Good to hear it is of interest.

I am in the fortunate position to be able to develop Clibu and the new Clibu Notes app without having to charge. That doesn't mean I won't charge at some point in the future, which I've being saying for quite some time now. ;-)

For a bit of fun Clibu Notes Alpha reads serious errors out aloud, and that is what you are hearing. The "Houston.." bit I added. Not sure where the voice selection originates. Probably an OS setting.

I'll report the WinSQL error to the developer of the database code I'm using. He is usually pretty quick at resolving issues.

Thanks for trying Clibu Notes on the Safari Beta and your feedback.


Paul Korm wrote:

Back to the real point of this thread.

Neville, I hadn't tried Clibu until your mentioned your alpha test. It
does indeed work well on Safari on macOS -- and also has interesting
possibilities in Safari on iOS. I'll continue to explore as time
permit. I'm impressed by the work you've put into Clibu and still do
not ask for compensation. Very generous.

Unfortunately, the "Safari Technology Preview release 92" at the link
you posted continues to generate a weird result on Safari (this is
Safari 13 on macOS 10.15 beta 8 -- so a lot of possible issues with all
the betaness going on). A stentorian voice declares "Houston we have a
problem, site error, undefined is not an option ... WinSQL is
deprecated". I have never seen an error message delivered with sound
and no text, so I have no idea what is generating that result.



Neville Franks wrote:
>Paul could try "Safari Technology Preview release 92" with
>Clibu Notes Alpha: https://clibu-notes-alpha-0-20-21.netlify.com It
does
>mention Bug fixes in IndexedDB.

@ Day - thanks.

@satis You may find this of interest, or not. https://youtu.be/wsdPeC86OH0 Start at 25 minutes in. And yes Alex Russell works for Google, but that is irrelevant.


satis wrote:

I appreciate your response, Daly. I asked what he specifically meant by
the term, and I think he got a little defensive. I’m pretty
familiar with the competing browsers, and how they have advanced and
leapfrogged each other in various ways, but I’m likewise too
familiar with fact-free drive-by bashing of one browser or another.

Neville Franks wrote:

I'm sorry but this is a complete waste of my time.

You must enjoy wasting your time, Neville. ;~)