Just an FYI, as this is a pretty big leap in functionality of the 'universal' version. Of course the original Windows desktop version has had this feature forever, but it was trapped within one PC installation and the custom tags wouldn't sync. I checked my Android app and the interface isn't yet available.

The way OneNote does tagging is fairly unique (as far as I know) in that they are 'inline' tags that describe content down to the paragraph level as opposed to at the note level like Evernote and almost all the rest. There's of course trade-offs to this, and which way is 'better' is subjective. I wish OneNote (or any other platform) could have two content metadata systems. A page/note level system for structural tagging (like Evernote) and another for inline content like OneNote.

OneNote's tag method can be very powerful for project management and learning notes. If you have a meeting or just a narrative about a new project, you can tag individual sentences as to-dos and highlight all sorts of items as things like 'to-learn', 'question for x-person', etc. Then you can search and see a summary list of all those tagged things within that project/subject etc. I always liked adding that metadata to my content as it naturally occurs within its native context. It is fairly simple though. You can't build a nested tag structure like in Evernote and there's not really a 'dashboard' view where you can filter/navigate via tags.

One can make the argument that OneNote's system isn't really 'tagging', though 'tagging' is a very vague and subjective term. It might be more accurate to call it inline keywords. It's really hard to compare to other platforms, as the vast majority of note-database software is better when the information is more granular. Like every idea/quote/event/todo etc should have it's own separate note/page with it's own metadata and tags. OneNote is much more powerful when you combine a lot of different things within a single page and take advantage of it's 'infinite canvas' concept. Like you can have tables, collapsible outlines, pictures, audio, etc all in a big two-dimensional array. So a OneNote notebook should have far less pages to describe the same content as an Evernote notebook. Arranging a bunch of mixed content visually means you can embed a LOT of related information within a single page which is an organization paradigm that most platforms aren't good at.... but the drawback is content tends to get buried and orphaned as there aren't clues about what a notebook contents are besides drilling down via a single hierarchy. A creative application of this inline tagging is essential to keep track of 'living' content within your piles of stuff.

As an example, here are some ways I used to use this inline tagging https://imgur.com/uVRt47U I have gotten away from that, as we've been in this limbo period where Microsoft abandoned the great desktop version for the dumbed down universal verson. But now that the Universal Version finally has the single best feature of the old OneNote, I'll need to revisit how I used to use it and see if it would work as well as it did before.

I think another feature they recently added was attaching OneDrive docs as links, which would be great but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. Hopefully we'll see an integration with ToDo, then it'll finally be the cloud-enabled way to do what desktop Outlook/Onenote could, which was the best integrated tasks/calendar/notes system I've ever used.

Thanks for this update. Lots to chew on as I found (desktop) OneNote to be both feature-rich and lacking in essentials at the same time. It never really worked for how I manage tasks, but as we are a Microsoft shop, I had to use it for basic things when my manager used it (as her boss used it). Glad to see they are beefing up the web-based version.

--Ken

That is true. I loved Onenote for the paragraph level tagging. The Tags in OneNote are similar to the Codes in QDA applications like AtlasTi. They are used to annotate paragraphs and lines. They link similar or related ideas across documents and within a single document. They are much more useful than the tags assigned at the document (file) level.

Ken wrote:

Thanks for this update. Lots to chew on as I found (desktop) OneNote to
be both feature-rich and lacking in essentials at the same time. It
never really worked for how I manage tasks, but as we are a Microsoft
shop, I had to use it for basic things when my manager used it (as her
boss used it). Glad to see they are beefing up the web-based version.

--Ken

I'm not sure how you like to handle tasks, but the way DESKTOP Outlook and OneNote integration works is pretty great. You can create linked Outlook to-do's within OneNote, then can manage the tasks (schedule, prioritize,reminders, task notes-attachments etc) on the Outlook side. If you complete a task on the Outlook side, it will show as checked off within OneNote. It used to be that this two-way link was special to the local desktop installation. There was no way to 'sync' this relationship from a work to home pc or whatever. But now that Outlook tasks syncs really nicely via Microsoft ToDo, we now have the ability to manage tasks in a modern way and still embed them into OneNote. It's still kind of a cludge because you still have to rely on the desktop OneNote, which is being abandoned.

So we are still waiting for direct ToDo integration but it's finally looking like it might be safe to start using OneNote as more than just a note-keeper on it's own island.

nathanb wrote:

Ken wrote:
>Thanks for this update. Lots to chew on as I found (desktop) OneNote
to
>be both feature-rich and lacking in essentials at the same time. It
>never really worked for how I manage tasks, but as we are a Microsoft
>shop, I had to use it for basic things when my manager used it (as her
>boss used it). Glad to see they are beefing up the web-based version.
>
>--Ken


I'm not sure how you like to handle tasks, but the way DESKTOP Outlook
and OneNote integration works is pretty great. You can create linked
Outlook to-do's within OneNote, then can manage the tasks (schedule,
prioritize,reminders, task notes-attachments etc) on the Outlook side.
If you complete a task on the Outlook side, it will show as checked off
within OneNote. It used to be that this two-way link was special to the
local desktop installation. There was no way to 'sync' this
relationship from a work to home pc or whatever. But now that Outlook
tasks syncs really nicely via Microsoft ToDo, we now have the ability to
manage tasks in a modern way and still embed them into OneNote. It's
still kind of a cludge because you still have to rely on the desktop
OneNote, which is being abandoned.

So we are still waiting for direct ToDo integration but it's finally
looking like it might be safe to start using OneNote as more than just a
note-keeper on it's own island.

Thank you for the additional tip. I know that Outlook is quite feature rich, but it, and Outlook, never seemed to offer a structure for task management that I wanted. I do realize that I could change my methods, but that is just not in the works right now. I am using MLO, which is quite powerful and somewhat overly complicated, but I currently have it set up for how I want it to work. I use Todoist and paper for personal tasks, but that is mostly light duty work. The other minor thing that I really hate about OneNote is the lack of being able to "dock" a window. The whole blank sheet of paper thing drives me crazy as there is no "structure" to the page. I know that this is a plus to many, but I hate dealing with adding/moving windows to ON pages.

--Ken

I try to like OneNote, but sometimes it's a difficult task.

The thing that annoys me the most is that each version lacks something, and are always different things.

1. In the mobile (iOS/Android) it is not possible to share a link of the note

2. The iPhone version has the abiliity to transform a note in a outline, very useful with notes that has the "to-do" tag. But neither the iPad or the Android versions have this feature

3. The Mac version is way behind the Windows version

4. The web version is another different beast...

And so goes on

Ken wrote:

I am using MLO, which is
quite powerful and somewhat overly complicated, but I currently have it
set up for how I want it to work. I use Todoist and paper for personal
tasks, but that is mostly light duty work. The other minor thing that I
really hate about OneNote is the lack of being able to "dock" a window.
The whole blank sheet of paper thing drives me crazy as there is no
"structure" to the page. I know that this is a plus to many, but I hate
dealing with adding/moving windows to ON pages.

--Ken

I got a kick out of the MLO comment as I've used MLO intermittently and really like it. MLO does have a desktop Outlook tasks sync that works well, but the thought of trying to keep OneNote linked tasks synced to desktop MLO through desktop Outlook....ah brings me back to the manual syncing days of 2006.

I've been in constant limbo mode over the past 10 years or so on whether to have ONE combined work and personal task/note system or keep them separate. My work has ALWAYS revolved around desktop Office and my personal stuff is a combo of Microsoft/Google cloud services and a synology NAS. As of today (might change tomorrow), Todoist is my personal tasks manager now. I prefer task hierarchies. I do like how MLO works compared to ToDoist, but only just barely, so Todoist's cross-platform ubiquity and automatic sync keep me there. MLO's capabilities are impressive but I've found that I'm just too undisciplined to take advantage of it's deeper features. For work I am trying out Microsoft ToDo and actually really like it. I was a Wunderlist junkie for a while and it reminds me what was so good about that.

And I've been going on about the OneNote task integration, which I'm going back to in a light way with some of my 'work' tasks but I've learned that CRIMPING and relying on specific digital links between systems is a bad idea. Over the past few years I've been using zettel codes as searchable links between my files, notes, and tasks. It's rudimentary, but rock solid, and it gives me total freedom to change out any of the platforms.

I'm curious what you mean by OneNote's lack of floating windows as a bad thing. My long-running desktop default has been to have two instances of OneNote running at all time. One is a 'docked' window in that 'full page view' mode which is a quck-note, daily tasks/journal thing. The other is in normal browse mode where I can see the notebook structure and it's constantly used for reference or project management.

I know it seems like I'm a Microsoft employee here, but I'm well aware of OneNote's big limitations, especially for people in this circle. I've had a love/hate relationship with it since 2007. All my notes could certainly be on a WAY more powerful platform where they are more findable and relatable. Yet my lazy and meandering habits have mostly evolved around it for 10 years and I actually can dig up what I'm looking for most the time. So I have to give it credit, I wish it were a ferrari but it's been a reliable honda in my life.

nathanb wrote:

Ken wrote:
> I am using MLO, which is
>quite powerful and somewhat overly complicated, but I currently have it
>set up for how I want it to work. I use Todoist and paper for personal
>tasks, but that is mostly light duty work. The other minor thing that
I
>really hate about OneNote is the lack of being able to "dock" a window.

>The whole blank sheet of paper thing drives me crazy as there is no
>"structure" to the page. I know that this is a plus to many, but I
hate
>dealing with adding/moving windows to ON pages.
>
>--Ken

I got a kick out of the MLO comment as I've used MLO intermittently and
really like it. MLO does have a desktop Outlook tasks sync that works
well, but the thought of trying to keep OneNote linked tasks synced to
desktop MLO through desktop Outlook....ah brings me back to the manual
syncing days of 2006.

I've been in constant limbo mode over the past 10 years or so on whether
to have ONE combined work and personal task/note system or keep them
separate. My work has ALWAYS revolved around desktop Office and my
personal stuff is a combo of Microsoft/Google cloud services and a
synology NAS. As of today (might change tomorrow), Todoist is my
personal tasks manager now. I prefer task hierarchies. I do like how
MLO works compared to ToDoist, but only just barely, so Todoist's
cross-platform ubiquity and automatic sync keep me there. MLO's
capabilities are impressive but I've found that I'm just too
undisciplined to take advantage of it's deeper features. For work I am
trying out Microsoft ToDo and actually really like it. I was a
Wunderlist junkie for a while and it reminds me what was so good about
that.

And I've been going on about the OneNote task integration, which I'm
going back to in a light way with some of my 'work' tasks but I've
learned that CRIMPING and relying on specific digital links between
systems is a bad idea. Over the past few years I've been using zettel
codes as searchable links between my files, notes, and tasks. It's
rudimentary, but rock solid, and it gives me total freedom to change out
any of the platforms.

I'm curious what you mean by OneNote's lack of floating windows as a bad
thing. My long-running desktop default has been to have two instances of
OneNote running at all time. One is a 'docked' window in that 'full
page view' mode which is a quck-note, daily tasks/journal thing. The
other is in normal browse mode where I can see the notebook structure
and it's constantly used for reference or project management.

I know it seems like I'm a Microsoft employee here, but I'm well aware
of OneNote's big limitations, especially for people in this circle.
I've had a love/hate relationship with it since 2007. All my notes could
certainly be on a WAY more powerful platform where they are more
findable and relatable. Yet my lazy and meandering habits have mostly
evolved around it for 10 years and I actually can dig up what I'm
looking for most the time. So I have to give it credit, I wish it were
a ferrari but it's been a reliable honda in my life.

Interesting post. We seem to be travelling on similar paths. I have been using MLO at work as my task organizer for all of the projects that I work on based on a recommendation here two years ago. I have used a whole host of programs since I had to leave Ecco behind (IT would no longer allow it to be installed on my work PC when we finally migrated to Win7 a number of years ago). We are a Microsoft shop and no users have administrative rights for security purposes, so anything I use has to be portable, web-based or installed on my own hardware. Like you, I am currently using Todoist for personal tasks, but that is not at all complicated.

Regarding OneNote, my previous manager used it as her manager used it, so I was asked to use the notebooks that they set up. These notebooks were mostly used for updates and reports, not task management, and I have a couple of notebooks of my own that hold some oddball data. My earlier comment about OneNote was actually directed at the notebooks, not the windows the program occupies. I appreciate that notebooks are "without lines" and can literally be used like a blank sheet of paper, but this totally free form ability to lay down windows also drives me crazy when I want a more "fixed" environment, not unlike an alignment grid that drawing programs offer. I also appreciate that OneNote's tagging system has features that are not found in task managers, and I also appreciate all of the pages and books that can be created, but that is also its downfall for me. It is very easy for data to get lost. I am sure if could adapt the program to hold information, but I find that programs like MLO, Todoist, GQueues, RTM, etc. are better suited to how I manage tasks and keep notes on projects (although I do not like programs like Workflowy as they do not offer left panel navigation which I find essential).

--Ken

...... and I
also appreciate all of the pages and books that can be created, but that
is also its downfall for me. It is very easy for data to get lost. I
am sure if could adapt the program to hold information, but I find that
programs like MLO, Todoist, GQueues, RTM, etc. are better suited to how
I manage tasks and keep notes on projects (although I do not like
programs like Workflowy as they do not offer left panel navigation which
I find essential).

--Ken

We do have very similar preferences. Info getting buried in OneNote is definitely it's biggest con for any 'power' note user. I think my deep comfort with OneNote as my perpetual default has to do with discovering it on Office 2007 and it being my first 'info-management' platform. It was like a breath of fresh air at the time as I had never heard about Ecco Pro or any other pioneers in that area. So I learned how to flow my information the 'onenote way' and that formed habits that I still have a hard time breaking in my search for something better. The main thing is probably it's free-form nature that I got really comfortable with and that has made most other info managers 'feel' clunkier to me than they really are. So with that aspect what turns you off OneNote is what draws me to it.

It also taught me to prefer the two-pane interface that you describe and I think you've made me realize that's why I could never really 'get' workflowy. One tool I'm pretty excited about that might be the best fusion of two-pane organization, free-form noting, AND deep metadata capabilities is Notion. I've been tinkering with it a lot lately and it's probably going to be the new permanent home for at least a third of my digital random things, if not more. Since we have similar preferences, it might work for you too.

nathanb wrote:

We do have very similar preferences. Info getting buried in OneNote is
definitely it's biggest con for any 'power' note user. I think my deep
comfort with OneNote as my perpetual default has to do with discovering
it on Office 2007 and it being my first 'info-management' platform. It
was like a breath of fresh air at the time as I had never heard about
Ecco Pro or any other pioneers in that area. So I learned how to flow
my information the 'onenote way' and that formed habits that I still
have a hard time breaking in my search for something better. The main
thing is probably it's free-form nature that I got really comfortable
with and that has made most other info managers 'feel' clunkier to me
than they really are. So with that aspect what turns you off OneNote is
what draws me to it.

It also taught me to prefer the two-pane interface that you describe and
I think you've made me realize that's why I could never really 'get'
workflowy. One tool I'm pretty excited about that might be the best
fusion of two-pane organization, free-form noting, AND deep metadata
capabilities is Notion. I've been tinkering with it a lot lately and
it's probably going to be the new permanent home for at least a third of
my digital random things, if not more. Since we have similar
preferences, it might work for you too.

Thanks for the Notion recommendation. I'll need to check it out at home as it will not load on IE at work (our standard issue browser). This is the same reason hat I did not try to use AirTable to create my own task manager. The joys of a locked down network.

--Ken

Ken wrote:

Thanks for the Notion recommendation. I'll need to check it out at home
as it will not load on IE at work (our standard issue browser). This is
the same reason hat I did not try to use AirTable to create my own task
manager. The joys of a locked down network.

Wow, you can't use chrome, IE, or even Edge? That's pretty locked down! I suppose portable apps are locked down too? I suspect there are portable versions of browsers but I wouldn't know as I've never had a reason to look. I've never had trouble running ConnectedText ,UltraRecall, etc as portable versions (via usb drive, onedrive/dropbox, or hard drive) when I couldn't install programs.

nathanb wrote:

Ken wrote:

>Thanks for the Notion recommendation. I'll need to check it out at
home
>as it will not load on IE at work (our standard issue browser). This
is
>the same reason hat I did not try to use AirTable to create my own task
>manager. The joys of a locked down network.

Wow, you can't use chrome, IE, or even Edge? That's pretty locked down!
I suppose portable apps are locked down too? I suspect there are
portable versions of browsers but I wouldn't know as I've never had a
reason to look. I've never had trouble running ConnectedText
,UltraRecall, etc as portable versions (via usb drive, onedrive/dropbox,
or hard drive) when I couldn't install programs.

The default is currently IE. They have been deploying Chrome and FF on demand, but I have not yet had a strong business case to request it, but I am sure I could get it if I asked the right person. I am sure they would frown on portable apps, and if detected, they would be reported, so I choose my task managers wisely.

--Ken

Onenote (and ms apps in general) fall down in app parity across platforms. We have; just last week; migrated from gsuite to O365. I’m the only Mac/iOS user. It’s been a nightmare to try to use ms Mac apps. I’ve set everything up in macOS apps, but not without problems. I could write a list as long as my arm about features Windows users have tha Mac doesn’t. It also bugs me that muscle memory keyboard shortcuts such as CTRL + a and CTRL +e don’t work, or only work in some windows.

These reasons alone would keep me from storing my data in Onenote.

Any idea when dark mode is coming?

I'm really looking forward to that.