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Keeping zetel notes: productive or counterproductive approach.
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Posted by Amontillado
Dec 4, 2018 at 03:22 PM
I would refine Mr. Lougleed’s method slightly. While you can write (or paste) lengthy notes as OmniOutliner topics, that’s probably better done as notes for the topics.
He pastes an excerpt as a child topic. I think it’s a better use of hoisting/focusing to keep the topic title short. The optional note on each topic is easier to use for lengthy input, since the enter key works as a line ending and doesn’t terminate the entry process. Cmd-enter is a keyboard shortcut that will close out a note.
With the long and windy stuff in the notes, OmniOutliner’s show and hide all notes features can quickly switch between a full-on display of everything and a more navigable menu of what’s there.
I keep wishing Devonthink had more fluid navigation. On the other hand, I really like DT’s feel of cast-iron dependability, something I didn’t get with Tinderbox.
Maybe I should take another look. I still have a Tinderbox license,
Posted by Beck
Dec 4, 2018 at 05:35 PM
Hi everyone, ߑ, thought I’d chime in here.
First, I think it’s important to point out that my zettelkasten is untested for its ability to recall and reference. It’s working well for me as a learning tool, as has been noted by others in this thread. My current approaches are an evolution of strategies that have or have not worked for me over these last few years as I have needed to synthesize, remember, and connect a greater pace and volume of ideas. I will continue to share how it changes and if the zettelkasten succeeds at meeting the demands I throw at it.
Secondly, what Paul wrote here is of particular resonance:
Paul Korm wrote:
I generally have an aversion to the modern preoccupation with
>“productivity” or “workflow”, which seems to be a recurrent topic in
>many forums. Coming from a manufacturing and service company
>background, “productivity” is something we do to improve machine or
>workforce throughput and output, not ourselves. So, in my mind, the
>highest purpose of note taking is learning and enrichment.
Last year, I wrote a piece called “Reading is Useless” — https://medium.com/@10ch/reading-is-useless-644399af3cce — which may go a long way in positioning where I stand with regard to productivity and efficiency, which is to say I think they are complex ideas, in some ways full of merit and in others ways manipulative and not necessarily in our best interest.
https://medium.com/@10ch/reading-is-useless-644399af3cce
To lay all my cards on the table, I’ll say this… I used to judge the way I spent my time: this is a good way, that is a bad way. Now, I look I see life being lived in either way. Either is good. This orientation means that I do a lot of things in my life that causes some people to question why I spend so much time doing things that could be done faster if they were purchased or algorithmically approached, etc., but to me it’s life being lived in either case. I don’t have to value efficiency, I can value other things… like the joy of wrestling with an idea, creating a beautiful map, or sharing it on Youtube. :)
Third, regarding scope of the system. I certainly do bound what goes in, but by what I’m unsure. It’s probably some sense of what the 10-years-from-now me would want to have available to her. It’s just a guess, of course, a gut instinct, but there’s a lot that doesn’t go in when looking at it that way. (And also a lot that does.)
Posted by Paul Korm
Dec 4, 2018 at 07:43 PM
Thank you for your frank and thoughtful post, Beck.
It resonates with me in light of a few other comments, above, which I interpreted as fretting “ugh, do I have to make a note about everything I read or think?” Ugh is right—doing that much note making melts minds.
I think it’s important in a note taking practice to figure out and use a mental sieve that lets serendipitous thoughts, or quotes, or passages in our reading or hearing through into our note taking, and disregards the dreck.
Posted by Stephen Zeoli
Dec 4, 2018 at 08:27 PM
This thread is a perfect embodiment of why this is a great forum: thoughtful, intelligent people discussing an interesting topic civilly, each contributing excellent insights.
Thank you!
Steve Z.
Posted by Franz Grieser
Dec 4, 2018 at 08:53 PM
Thanks to Dellu for starting this thread.
I am in the middle of reconsidering my way of notetaking. Beck’s videos and the discussions on Sascha’s and Christian’s website made me reread Sönke Ahrens book (Beck mentioned the book in the first video). I haven’t made up my mind, yet, whether it’s the way to go for me. The Devonthink/Omnioutliner solution Scott Loghleed described seems more fitting for my needs, though I will probably use NotebooksApp instead of Omnioutliner.
For years I found extensive note-taking a waste of effort and time. But after forgetting one brilliant idea or two, I started to take more and longer notes pondering over some projects - till I lost interest in them because I had been chewing on them for too long. What I found, however, when following ideas using Gabrielle Rico’s clustering method (combined with notes), was that by digressing now and then I came up with interesting ideas that were a little off the straight road. Most of them were nice but not worth pursuing. But some of them did lead to a great leap forward.
So, what I strive for now is a mix between structure and discipline (zettelkasten) and random findings.